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PrezdeJohnson09
03-14-2011, 09:40 PM
http://www.uscho.com/mens-d3-blog/2011/03/14/the-need-for-a-16-team-tournament/

Thoughts on this?

Only major flaw I see in the post is Costello references that there are currently eight autobids and next year there will be nine, which is incorrect.

There are seven auto bids currently and one pool B bid which is NOT an automatic bid.

Next year there are eight auto bids and three at-large Pool C selections. The Pool B disappears so the ECAC West teams will all be competing for Pool C selections and will no longer have Pool B reserved for just them and the MASCAC.

Costello references there being only two at-large selections next year, which is incorrect.

It makes since on the surface, but will the NCAA go for it? I'd be for it. It would bring great exposure for the game and I honestly don't think it would be an after thought at the D-I Frozen Four. People will certainly go watch a hockey game if its on the right day and co-incides with the D-I schedule right.

I think its worked great for lacrosse and will give both teams the opportunity to play in front of the biggest crowds most will ever play in front of in their life.

The biggest setback to this proposal is the length of time between the games and when the D-I Frozen Four takes place, which is mid-April. That's nearly a month after when the D-III FF is usually wrapping up.

I can't see many teams going for that and we all know how the NCAA is on the track of taking away games and shortening the seasons rather than extending them.

norm1909
03-14-2011, 09:45 PM
Of course there are EIGHT auto bids; currently seven automatically go to the conference winners and one (aka pool B) automatically goes to the ECAC-W ;)

collegehcky2
03-14-2011, 10:05 PM
http://www.uscho.com/mens-d3-blog/2011/03/14/the-need-for-a-16-team-tournament/

Thoughts on this?

Only major flaw I see in the post is Costello references that there are currently eight autobids and next year there will be nine, which is incorrect.

There are seven auto bids currently and one pool B bid which is NOT an automatic bid.

Next year there are eight auto bids and three at-large Pool C selections. The Pool B disappears so the ECAC West teams will all be competing for Pool C selections and will no longer have Pool B reserved for just them and the MASCAC.

Costello references there being only two at-large selections next year, which is incorrect.

It makes since on the surface, but will the NCAA go for it? I'd be for it. It would bring great exposure for the game and I honestly don't think it would be an after thought at the D-I Frozen Four. People will certainly go watch a hockey game if its on the right day and co-incides with the D-I schedule right.

I think its worked great for lacrosse and will give both teams the opportunity to play in front of the biggest crowds most will ever play in front of in their life.

The biggest setback to this proposal is the length of time between the games and when the D-I Frozen Four takes place, which is mid-April. That's nearly a month after when the D-III FF is usually wrapping up.

I can't see many teams going for that and we all know how the NCAA is on the track of taking away games and shortening the seasons rather than extending them.

I think if they put the first round on a weekend instead of mid-week that'll stretch it out, maybe push back conference finals a weekend? Who knows, it probably won't ever be happening though.

Dyce
03-14-2011, 10:39 PM
My main problem with the post is that the only tournaments with which it makes comparisons are DI, even though we've seen, time and time again, that the NCAA more or less considers its dealings with that division entirely distinct from those with DIII. A more salient question might be this: are there any DIII sports (outside of the borderline 11th in men's hockey) that are currently allowed a larger tournament than the 6.5 ratio stipulates? I ask this because I know of at least a few other sports that are clamoring for more slots - particularly those with representation throughout the country that feel more berths are merited in stronger regions. It seems to me that any change to hockey would force the NCAA to address these complaints, and given that these are sports with a great number more than 71 participating programs, they might balk at opening those cans of worms via a much less common varsity program.

joecct
03-14-2011, 11:43 PM
Under the current D-III regs, in order to get a 16 team tournament, you need to change the access ratio, which will never happen as long as Norwich has an ROTC program.

BUT -- if we think outside the (penalty) box for a moment, there is a very easy way to get a 16 team tournament...

Go to a National Collegiate Championship for D-II/III. Then the access ratios go out the door, the AQ standard is 6 teams, and the selection criteria is who the heck knows. But, we could get 16 teams..

9 AQ's (MIAC, MCHA, NCHA, NESCAC, SUNYAC, MASCAC, ECAC-E, ECAC-NE, NE-10)
1 maybe AQ if they get one more team - ECAC-W
6 At Large teams

UCBadger
03-14-2011, 11:50 PM
Under the current D-III regs, in order to get a 16 team tournament, you need to change the access ratio, which will never happen as long as Norwich has an ROTC program.
Pardon? :confused:

AC09
03-15-2011, 12:51 AM
Pardon? :confused:

I believe he was implying it won't ever happen, since Norwich dropping their ROTC program won't ever happen :D

LakerFan99
03-15-2011, 07:02 AM
It's definitely intriguing, although I'm not sure about this:

"Additionally think of the carnage that might have been created if Fredonia or Babson had won their conference title and taking the AQ that may have eliminated a Norwich or, although unlikely, a Plattsburgh from consideration."

I don't think this is true. I think it's fairly evident that if Babson had beaten Norwich, Norwich would have gotten the Pool C over UW-Superior. Same with Platty.

NUProf
03-15-2011, 02:19 PM
Under the current D-III regs, in order to get a 16 team tournament, you need to change the access ratio, which will never happen as long as Norwich has an ROTC program.

BUT -- if we think outside the (penalty) box for a moment, there is a very easy way to get a 16 team tournament...

Go to a National Collegiate Championship for D-II/III. Then the access ratios go out the door, the AQ standard is 6 teams, and the selection criteria is who the heck knows. But, we could get 16 teams..

9 AQ's (MIAC, MCHA, NCHA, NESCAC, SUNYAC, MASCAC, ECAC-E, ECAC-NE, NE-10)
1 maybe AQ if they get one more team - ECAC-W
6 At Large teams

If the NCC for D2/D3 were to happen, I think the ECAC E would keep SMC and St. As, which would leave the NE-10 with 4 teams. But maybe the NE-10 could join with the ECAC-W to form a 9 team league. (If they wanted to be doormats in a league with an AQ)

Russell Jaslow
03-15-2011, 03:01 PM
Under the current D-III regs, in order to get a 16 team tournament, you need to change the access ratio, which will never happen as long as Norwich has an ROTC program.

Yes, this what I was thinking all along while reading Tim's piece, and obviously so did everyone else commenting on this thread.

However, did everyone gloss over the end of his article and miss the key point he brings up? Tim alludes to the fact that the NCAA is thinking about this. This is not merely another pipe dream written by a hockey columnist. Tim seems to have sources telling him this might actually happen.

Yeah, it would require some hefty exceptions and it could open up a Pandora's Box the NCAA probably does not want to open with other D3 sports, but there are two exceptions to the D3 ratio that currently exist today, including football (which limits their tournament to 32 teams no matter what the ratio says).

If this does happen, don't expect it until after 2013, because Lake Placid has the contract to host the D3 championship the next two years.

joecct
03-15-2011, 03:14 PM
If the NCC for D2/D3 were to happen, I think the ECAC E would keep SMC and St. As, which would leave the NE-10 with 4 teams. But maybe the NE-10 could join with the ECAC-W to form a 9 team league. (If they wanted to be doormats in a league with an AQ)Prof

The chances for an AQ for the Saints would be a lot better in the NE-10 then the ECAC-E. And an 8 team league gives a school 11 OOC opportunities, which may or may not be a good thing.

NUProf
03-15-2011, 03:20 PM
Prof

The chances for an AQ for the Saints would be a lot better in the NE-10 then the ECAC-E. And an 8 team league gives a school 11 OOC opportunities, which may or may not be a good thing.

I think those schools like being in the ECAC-E and would prefer to stay there. They would then become eligible for the post season. If they did, maybe the NE-10 schools would be welcomed back into the ECAC NE since the games with them would count again.

dreamer6
03-15-2011, 08:29 PM
I think those schools like being in the ECAC-E and would prefer to stay there. They would then become eligible for the post season. If they did, maybe the NE-10 schools would be welcomed back into the ECAC NE since the games with them would count again.

I agree, SMC & St. A's would prefer to stay in the ECAC-E. The Northeast 10 Conference (for hockey) needs to come to an end.

joecct
03-15-2011, 08:33 PM
I agree, SMC & St. A's would prefer to stay in the ECAC-E. The Northeast 10 Conference (for hockey) needs to come to an end.Not to beat a dead horse, but if your conference tells you to do something, you do it. Salem State wanted to stay in the ECAC-E, but was told by the MASCAC you join or we suspend your membership in all sports. The rest is history (of sorts).

NUProf
03-15-2011, 08:39 PM
Not to beat a dead horse, but if your conference tells you to do something, you do it. Salem State wanted to stay in the ECAC-E, but was told by the MASCAC you join or we suspend your membership in all sports. The rest is history (of sorts).

True, but the NE 10 didn't start sponsoring hockey until Assumption, Stonehill, SNHU, and Franklin Pierce got kicked out of the ECAC-NE. I think they would not mind getting out of hockey - they are mainly there because of squeekball.

WIT SID
03-16-2011, 07:44 PM
True, but the NE 10 didn't start sponsoring hockey until Assumption, Stonehill, SNHU, and Franklin Pierce got kicked out of the ECAC-NE.
Not exactly (http://www.northeast10.org/information/championships/All_Time_Champions/IH)

2009-2010 was the first year Assumption, et al, were no longer in the ECAC Northeast

NUProf
03-16-2011, 08:42 PM
Not exactly (http://www.northeast10.org/information/championships/All_Time_Champions/IH)

2009-2010 was the first year Assumption, et al, were no longer in the ECAC Northeast

Shows how well my memory works.

However, the NE-10 didn't really have official competition in hockey until 2003. They claim champions in 1999-2000, 2000-2001, 2001-2002, and 2002-2003, but those were actually the winners of the old ECAC DII tournament.

Josh Carey
03-16-2011, 09:29 PM
Yup, never gonna happen unless it's part of an overall effort at examining all D3 championships.

AC09
03-16-2011, 09:33 PM
Yup, never gonna happen unless it's part of an overall effort at examining all D3 championships.

Maybe the NCAA is changing its ways? :rolleyes:

joecct
03-16-2011, 10:39 PM
Maybe the NCAA is changing its ways? :rolleyes:
http://kara.allthingsd.com/files/2008/05/pigsfly.jpg