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KnowItAll
03-14-2011, 08:30 PM
Why are you compelled to tell me what Divisions to be a fan of? I posted a factual observation with a :D. I love Maine hockey as much as anyone on this list. I just prefer to be more balanced and positive about Maine's future. Please don't tell me which team and division of college hockey I should support.

fan is short for fanatic.

if you can stand what Tim is doing and if you think that this is just a game, then you are not a fan, plain and simple.

you certainly have a right not to care, but I am the gatekeeper for who gets to call himself and herself a UMaine Black Bear fan, and I voted unanimously ... you are not a fan

BassAle
03-14-2011, 08:40 PM
Reasonable expectations, I think the goalies not improving over the course of the season is what kept those expectations from coming true. I'm not convinced they'll ever improve looking at Willie and/or Sirman

Speaking of goalies, I wonder how Timmay's record would look without Howard. A once in a lifetime goalie wasted playing behind "Timmay's system".

carltonbarrett
03-14-2011, 09:50 PM
Speaking of goalies, I wonder how Timmay's record would look without Howard. A once in a lifetime goalie wasted playing behind "Timmay's system".

I think the stars lined up just right for TIMMAY in a lot of ways which helped inflate his accomplishments and in turn gave Maine fans a false sense of security. He inherited first a bunch of battle hardened Walsh players and continued to reap the benefits of Walsh recruits for years to come. Nobody more so than Howard. As pointed out above, even with a very "good" goaltender, Maine probably doesn't even sniff the FF after 2002 without Howard. Throw in some of the easiest brackets in NCAA history and again, you can see how TIMMAY was able to fool the masses. More than anything, once Walsh's players, recruits and assistants started thinning out, so did the victories. I get a laugh how some holdouts still think Timmay has what it takes. The curve is heading down faster and faster and unless something is done soon, Maine's winning ways will be nothing more than a distant memory.

BoSox3066
03-14-2011, 10:18 PM
Nobody more so than Howard. As pointed out above, even with a very "good" goaltender, Maine probably doesn't even sniff the FF after 2002 without Howard.

You won't find a much bigger Howard fan than me, but its worth pointing out that he went to one FF and Ben Bishop, by all accounts a 100% Whitehead recruit, went to two. I'd chalk that up to Grant as much as anything else at this point, and the "easiest bracket ever" theory, which I take serious issue with because it's the freakin NCAA tournament; everyone deserves to be there and is good. UNH should've had an "easy" road with RPI.....

I've digressed. Bottom line I no longer believe Tim has what it takes, but pinning all his successes on Howard is a little misleading.

BoSox3066
03-14-2011, 11:04 PM
Absolutely daming statistic Larry digs up today: Maine, which wound up 17-12-7, finished 57th out of 58 Division I schools in save percentage at .884. Maine’s .889 save percentage over the last three seasons ranks 54th.

Also, talk about the goalie's getting worse: In Maine’s first 18 games, they had a combined save percentage of .901. Over the second 18 games, their save percentage was .876.

http://new.bangordailynews.com/2011/03/14/sports/inconsistent-goaltending-leads-to-disappointing-maine-hockey-season/

EDIT: Walrus, did you supply this line for ol Larry? "That causes an area of uncertainty as to whether they’re getting the necessary coaching; if they’re going to turn out to be recruiting mistakes or if some of their positive play will lead to more improvement and eventually provide Maine with consistently good goaltending."

irishfan85
03-14-2011, 11:42 PM
I've found quite a few scenarios where Maine makes it in. I think they need to root for Northeastern to defeat BC, but then lose to Merrimack.

TripleE
03-15-2011, 12:14 AM
It is a long shot, but if you plug in these results into chn website Maine looks to be 15th.

WCHA Play-in #2: Minnesota-Duluth defeats Bemidji State.
WCHA Play-in #1: Alaska-Anchorage defeats Colorado College.
WCHA Semifinal #2: Denver defeats Minnesota-Duluth.
WCHA Semifinal #1: North Dakota defeats Alaska-Anchorage.
WCHA Championship game: North Dakota defeats Denver.
Hockey East Semifinal #2: Merrimack defeats New Hampshire.
Hockey East Semifinal #1: Northeastern defeats Boston College.
Hockey East Championship game: Merrimack defeats Northeastern.
ECAC Semifinal #2: Cornell defeats Dartmouth.
ECAC Semifinal #1: Yale defeats Colgate.
ECAC Championship game: Yale defeats Cornell.
ECAC Consolation game: Colgate defeats Dartmouth.
CCHA Semifinal #2: Miami defeats Notre Dame.
CCHA Semifinal #1: Michigan defeats Western Michigan.
CCHA Championship game: Michigan defeats Miami.
CCHA Consolation game: Notre Dame defeats Western Michigan.
Atlantic Hockey Semifinal #2: Air Force defeats Holy Cross.
Atlantic Hockey Semifinal #1: Connecticut defeats RIT.
Atlantic Hockey Championship game: Air Force defeats Connecticut.
*

Sweet....so if we root for this 10,000:1 exact parlay....

We STILL do not get in....:rolleyes:

Because Colgate and Air Force are now auto-bids not in the top 16....so 14th and higher gets in.

TripleE
03-15-2011, 12:18 AM
Anyone know how the pair wise would look had Nyquist had netted that break away for the win at UNH? I'm just curious if that calculation is possible.

We'd flip the comparison with BU, and POSSIBLY Dartmouth (hard to say how much RPI would be effected)

TripleE
03-15-2011, 12:21 AM
Absolutely daming statistic Larry digs up today: Maine, which wound up 17-12-7, finished 57th out of 58 Division I schools in save percentage at .884. Maine’s .889 save percentage over the last three seasons ranks 54th.

Also, talk about the goalie's getting worse: In Maine’s first 18 games, they had a combined save percentage of .901. Over the second 18 games, their save percentage was .876.

http://new.bangordailynews.com/2011/03/14/sports/inconsistent-goaltending-leads-to-disappointing-maine-hockey-season/

EDIT: Walrus, did you supply this line for ol Larry? "That causes an area of uncertainty as to whether they’re getting the necessary coaching; if they’re going to turn out to be recruiting mistakes or if some of their positive play will lead to more improvement and eventually provide Maine with consistently good goaltending."

Thats all the more atrocious when you think about Sully's streak. How far was #58?? I bet we fall to nation's worst without it.

If only we had the alcoholic... ;)

Gusforhobey
03-15-2011, 12:46 AM
I've found quite a few scenarios where Maine makes it in. I think they need to root for Northeastern to defeat BC, but then lose to Merrimack.

stop it. just stop it.

dmjossel
03-15-2011, 01:18 AM
I've digressed. Bottom line I no longer believe Tim has what it takes, but pinning all his successes on Howard is a little misleading.

I don't argue a bit with the idea that a declining program would and probably should consider a change, but it is interesting to watch the mental gyrations that are necessary to give any and all credit for Maine's accomplishments to Walsh and the players, while placing all the blame for losses and missed opportunities on Whitehead.

When Whitehead teams win, it's because of Walsh players like Howard. When Whitehead teams lose-- with or without Walsh players-- it's his fault.

When Whitehead teams win with his players-- like the two frozen four appearances with Ben Bishop-- it's an "easy road", so again, Whitehead gets no credit. When Whitehead teams lose-- it's his fault.

When the current team wins, it's evidence of how talented the kids are-- despite and in direct opposition to the assertion that Walsh and Grant were better recruiters than Whitehead-- and of how Whitehead fails to develop players, use them appropriately, or motivate them to improve. When the current team loses, it's not because the players aren't talented enough, or because they don't apply their talents appropriately, it's because Whitehead is playing the wrong players, or giving the right players wrong instructions, or telling his assistant coaches to not do sensible things or to shut up.

Sure, the buck stops with the head coach-- always. While true, that's a necessarily arbitrary distinction-- it's because somebody has to take responsibility, not because the coach actually does everything. I just have difficulty swallowing the two diametrically opposed ideas, that there's a big talent gap between Walsh recruits and Whitehead recruits that allows for the reassigning of credit for the first few years from Whitehead to Walsh, and then simultaneously Whitehead's teams underachieve, because they are "just as talented" as certain past Maine squads, some under Walsh, but haven't reaped the same results. Shouldn't it be one or the other-- not both-- even if it's agreed that the program needs a change?

TripleE
03-15-2011, 01:22 AM
Why does everyone think Nyquist won't be the only early departure? I love Spencer Abbott, but besides a blistering shot, I don't see a ton of true pro potential. I actually think Flynn has the best chance of anyone who isn't Gus to take his game to the next level as I think he has the most well rounded game and the right approach, but I can't imagine he's leaving.

I think O'Neill wears the C, while Flynny and Abbott don the As, and short of one of the goalies jumping somewhere else (I think we've established how much of a 'shame' that would be), I think everyone else comes back.

irishfan85
03-15-2011, 01:25 AM
I don't argue a bit with the idea that a declining program would and probably should consider a change, but it is interesting to watch the mental gyrations that are necessary to give any and all credit for Maine's accomplishments to Walsh and the players, while placing all the blame for losses and missed opportunities on Whitehead.

When Whitehead teams win, it's because of Walsh players like Howard. When Whitehead teams win-- with or without Walsh players-- it's his fault.

When Whitehead teams win with his players-- like the two frozen four appearances with Ben Bishop-- it's an "easy road", so again, Whitehead gets no credit. When Whitehead teams lose-- it's his fault.

When the current team wins, it's evidence of how talented the kids are-- despite and in direct opposition to the assertion that Walsh and Grant were better recruiters than Whitehead-- and of how Whitehead fails to develop players, use them appropriately, or motivate them to improve. When the current team loses, it's not because the players aren't talented enough, or because they don't apply their talents appropriately, it's because Whitehead is playing the wrong players, or giving the right players wrong instructions, or telling his assistant coaches to not do sensible things or to shut up.

Sure, the buck stops with the head coach-- always. While true, that's a necessarily arbitrary distinction-- it's because somebody has to take responsibility, not because the coach actually does everything. I just have difficulty swallowing the two diametrically opposed ideas, that there's a big talent gap between Walsh recruits and Whitehead recruits that allows for the reassigning of credit for the first few years from Whitehead to Walsh, and then simultaneously Whitehead's teams underachieve, because they are "just as talented" as certain past Maine squads, some under Walsh, but haven't reaped the same results. Shouldn't it be one or the other-- not both-- even if it's agreed that the program needs a change?

What is your infatuation with defending Whitehead? The program is in utter disarray. It's a what have you done for me lately business. He kept the program in good shape for 6 years, but the last four have been a certifiable disaster.

Fishman'81
03-15-2011, 01:26 AM
Sweet....so if we root for this 10,000:1 exact parlay....

We STILL do not get in....:rolleyes:

Because Colgate and Air Force are now auto-bids not in the top 16....so 14th and higher gets in.

Colgate is not in;they have to get through Yale and then win the ECAC championship game-which is a tall order-and they're not depicted as an AQ in the above scenario,either.

Furthermore,whomever makes it from AH will be the sole representative from that league this season.Doesn't matter to Maine who that one team might turn out to be.

It's nice to see (probably) 15 de-facto at-large teams getting bids,since this field is really too small for inclusion of any AQ's,but I will blow beer out of my nose with all the vigor of a blue whale breathing,should Maine somehow "back into" the NCAAs...I'm not even entertaining that fantasy.

TripleE
03-15-2011, 01:33 AM
When Whitehead teams win with his players-- like the two frozen four appearances with Ben Bishop-- it's an "easy road", so again, Whitehead gets no credit. When Whitehead teams lose-- it's his fault.

When the current team wins, it's evidence of how talented the kids are-- despite and in direct opposition to the assertion that Walsh and Grant were better recruiters than Whitehead-- and of how Whitehead fails to develop players, use them appropriately, or motivate them to improve. When the current team loses, it's not because the players aren't talented enough, or because they don't apply their talents appropriately, it's because Whitehead is playing the wrong players, or giving the right players wrong instructions, or telling his assistant coaches to not do sensible things or to shut up.

The 2006 and 2007 frozen four teams had more good luck than just an easy bracket. From the recruiting, and thus, player talent end of things, we were propelled by:

--Scoring leaders who were rare homestate gems, who wanted to play for the program all along (Greg Moore, Derek Damon)
--Defensemen like Mike Lundin, who were WANTED by his homestate Minnesota schools but requested he play a year of juniors first which he didn't want to do, so Maine swooped in and stole him.
--A 25 year old senior from Quebec who stayed close to home while wanting to fulfill his deceased mother's dream of him playing college hockey and earning his degree (Leveille)

A lot of the talent those teams had fell into our lap.

This years team, despite the talent, lost or tied TWELVE games they held a lead in. Several of those were multi goal leads. Most of those leads were 3rd period leads. TWELVE GAMES in a 36 game season. 1/3 of the season.

If an NHL team lost or OT lost 27 games they led in --- 20 games where they led in the 3rd period --- would that be acceptable? Who is reigning this team in??

Fishman'81
03-15-2011, 01:52 AM
Re:dmj.

He's a troll,right..?

Articulate enough,yes,but he's clearly enjoying the spectacle of his enemy's ongoing train-wreck.

Let's all visit the UNH thread when the Wildcats lay down like little girls in the NCAAs yet again,and see how reasonably he wants to chat with us about THAT! :)

BassAle
03-15-2011, 07:23 AM
the "easiest bracket ever" theory, which I take serious issue with because it's the freakin NCAA tournament; everyone deserves to be there and is good.


In 2007 Maine backed into the NCAAs (Maine had more losses than everyone except Air Force), and then had to beat St Cloud State and UMass to get to the frozen four. The season was looking like a disaster, and then the hockey gods gave them a gift and all the Timmay lovers rubbed it in our face that after we had been complaining about "Timmay Time" for the second half of the season Timmay was getting his players peaking at just the right time. The truth was the team barely made it in the tournament and ended up in a cupcake regional. Maine came out and scored two goals in three and a half minutes and then rolled over and died and didn't score again for the rest of the game (Timmay's system? Take an early lead and then try to protect)

In 2006 Maine was not in a cupcake regional (they had to face the winner of UNH and Michigan State). I was at the Frozen Four and from what I remember Maine came out and was playing well, controlling play for long stretches of the game but getting stopped by Eliot. About 4 minutes into the second they gave up a short handed goal to make it 2-1 and the crowd went crazy and the momentum clearly shifted to Wisconsin. Another 4 minutes later Wisconsin added a power play goal and the crowd was crazy. Maine was up against a better team with about 90% of the fans cheering for them. I think this was winnable game, but I don't have any complaints about how the 2006 season ended. Wisconsin had more talent.

So Bishop had one easy road to the frozen four and one le

Runsub5
03-15-2011, 07:24 AM
Encouraging news last night on the local sports segment. Nyquist is consulting with his family this week about returning to Maine. He should have a decision by the end of the week. No mention of the Red Wings applying pressure for him to leave.

Runsub5
03-15-2011, 07:28 AM
I don't argue a bit with the idea that a declining program would and probably should consider a change, but it is interesting to watch the mental gyrations that are necessary to give any and all credit for Maine's accomplishments to Walsh and the players, while placing all the blame for losses and missed opportunities on Whitehead.

When Whitehead teams win, it's because of Walsh players like Howard. When Whitehead teams lose-- with or without Walsh players-- it's his fault.

When Whitehead teams win with his players-- like the two frozen four appearances with Ben Bishop-- it's an "easy road", so again, Whitehead gets no credit. When Whitehead teams lose-- it's his fault.

When the current team wins, it's evidence of how talented the kids are-- despite and in direct opposition to the assertion that Walsh and Grant were better recruiters than Whitehead-- and of how Whitehead fails to develop players, use them appropriately, or motivate them to improve. When the current team loses, it's not because the players aren't talented enough, or because they don't apply their talents appropriately, it's because Whitehead is playing the wrong players, or giving the right players wrong instructions, or telling his assistant coaches to not do sensible things or to shut up.

Sure, the buck stops with the head coach-- always. While true, that's a necessarily arbitrary distinction-- it's because somebody has to take responsibility, not because the coach actually does everything. I just have difficulty swallowing the two diametrically opposed ideas, that there's a big talent gap between Walsh recruits and Whitehead recruits that allows for the reassigning of credit for the first few years from Whitehead to Walsh, and then simultaneously Whitehead's teams underachieve, because they are "just as talented" as certain past Maine squads, some under Walsh, but haven't reaped the same results. Shouldn't it be one or the other-- not both-- even if it's agreed that the program needs a change?

You are far too, rational for this crowd.

walrus
03-15-2011, 07:43 AM
Sure, the buck stops with the head coach-- always.?

Long post that in the end you sum up in one sentence. Tell us how the team has done since Grant was kicked to the curb? If you were a Maine fan would you be satisfied with the record the last 4 or 5 years. What do you think will change in coming years when the same plans are repeated over and over.