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dmjossel
03-13-2011, 11:59 PM
No disrespect to the Merrimack program but losing to MERRIMACK - really??????

Why do people always write "no disrespect" right before they disrespect something? Why bother?


I may have been able to accept losing to BU or BC but MERRIMACK????? Awful, just awful.

Funny, I bet BU and BC feel the same way. Nobody's mentioned UNH, but Merrimack beat them 2-1 this year also, even with UNH having two of those games at home. How did the Maine-UNH series turn out this year?

How is it unacceptable or awful for the #5 team to lose a playoff series in the #4 team's barn-- no matter who it is? If Maine was so much better than Merrimack this season that such a result is so awful, why did Maine finish behind Merrimack-- even while winning the season series two games to one, and winning those two at home? Wouldn't a playoff series at Alfond be expected to produce an opposite result?

These were two pretty evenly matched teams. There were blowouts on both sides in different games, each team romped at home at least once, and at the end of the day, the total figures give Merrimack an edge by one goal and one win. It just happened to be the one win and one goal that mattered in the playoffs, and those playoffs were at Merrimack's rink because Merrimack did slightly better in the regular season than Maine did-- and decidedly better against all the league's top teams other than Maine.

Disparage the team's effort if you feel so inclined, or failing to execute a game plan, or anything else you like, but there's nothing shameful in losing to this year's Merrimack team. They're Pretty Good™.

KnowItAll
03-13-2011, 11:59 PM
LOL

KnowItAll...perfect name. Just another hokydad.

I think you're on to something though...my sources tell me York committed major NCAA violations but was never caught :rolleyes:

don't put words in my mouth

J.D.
03-14-2011, 12:34 AM
well, you missed the operative words "or really illegal" I am ASSUMING that you are not believing the lies about how they were "hitting on" the "wrong girl" or the "wrong person's" relative...and yeah, I know exactly what they did and who caught them, and how.. and that the only reason they were forced form the team is because BC was forced to get rid of them "immediately" once they were caught... they could have been tossed a long prior... had they not been "caught"

You act as if BC fans don't know the rumors about why they were kicked off the team. The rumors were out there and "hitting on the wrong girl" was nothing I ever heard. Seems like you can't even get the rumors right, so why should anyone believe anything you have to say? I can assure you nobody from BC started rumors about it being because they "hit on the wrong girl". So, who are you calling a liar? But sure, you know exactly what they did, who caught them, how they were caught...

So let me get this straight, they were caught doing something and were kicked off the team immediately because of it. How could they have been tossed long before if they weren't caught doing anything? Like I said, you are a hokydad.


I would be honored to be put in a class with hokeydad... he knows more about this game, the teams in the nation and hockey in general than almost everyone on this board ever will.

Except he never talks about the game. All he does is talk about the politics of the game.


don't put words in my mouth

Any reason you quoted me twice?

sandiegoblkbr
03-14-2011, 12:53 AM
*yawn*

dmjossel
03-14-2011, 01:23 AM
You beat BC & UND at home, the Walsh Maine teams could beat anyone anywhere, big difference! As far as recruiting vs MC, a lot of kids just don't want to play that far away from a metropolitan area. Furthermore, I wouldn't say Dennehy has exactly built a dynasty over at MC, more like one good year with lots of upper classmen, with a likely big drop off coming next year - happens quite a bit with the UML's & UVM's of the world.

Merrimack certainly has not built anything approaching a dynasty, but I'd dispute the characterization of "lots of upper classmen". Out of 28 players, Merrimack has 7 seniors and 8 juniors-- pretty much an even distribution. Of those 7, the real impact players are two defensemen, Ross and Fraser, and two forwards, Cucci and Barton. Those four are, without a doubt, serious losses-- but last year's graduating class of 6 seniors also included several impact players, including Ds Bowen and Sadlowski, and Fs Robitaille and Kimball. The new guys coming in and the underclassmen improving more than made up for that. A lot was made of the fact that Da Costa missed the two games at Alfond, and how well the team does with him in the lineup, and how they lost three games without him. Then again, it was the third line- all juniors, I believe-- that was matched up against Maine's top line and did most of the damage this weekend.

If MC experiences a drop off, it will likely be from early departures combined with graduations; Da Costa is a sophomore and Cannata is a junior. Da Costa surprised a few by coming back this year, although I don't think it was that surprising. Many have him pegged to leave after this season. I'm not sure, but I think the further the team goes this season, the more likely departures are-- the less sense there will be of business being left unfinished. It's one thing for a BC or BU to falter in the playoffs-- most years everybody knows that team will be back, reloaded and restocked, if not the next season than the season afterwards. Merrimack is in a different position; they need to advance significantly from their earlier high water marks in order to get to that next level-- to get the kids who can make the team this good on a more regular basis. Even winning a title doesn't guarantee that, but I think it's a bigger boost than just competing for one, or just making the semifinals. They've been to the semis before, and that alone didn't spark much of anything. In fact, there's been precious little success since that time. A semifinal appearance by itself doesn't create a virtuous circle. Other teams that aren't in the Big Four have made it to finals and fallen, and things ebb and flow and the top four teams are still usually the same top four teams.

Those two guys have a chance-- just a chance-- to give Merrimack the opportunity to move up from competing for a playoff berth to competing for home ice more than just once or twice a decade. If they don't feel they achieve that with whatever result the program manages this year, then perhaps they'll want to come back and keep at it, keep the momentum moving forward next season.

I don't know if Maine has underclassmen this season that will feel that way. The momentum around the Maine program-- at least, looking at this thread-- appears to be negative. I wonder what the incentive is for a player like Nyquist to stick around in order to try and keep something from dropping further, rather than being part of an upswing. I see a lot of people think he's not coming back.

dmjossel
03-14-2011, 01:38 AM
Grand Forks may not be NYC, but UND has the best facilities in the country, is one of the great college hockey programs of all time and is right next door to those Canadian farm towns where a lot of their top recruits come from.

Compared to Orono, Grand Forks might be NYC. It has a population 5x larger than Orono's-- larger than Orono and Bangor put together. The metro Grand Forks area has a population that is 3/4 the size of the entire county that Bangor is in. UMaine's enrollment is larger than Orono's population.

Don't get me wrong. The school and the town certainly appeal to some, and I'm not sure that Grand Forks holds much of an appeal to me personally. However, I can see that all other things being equal, some would choose ND over UM-- and at least on the hockey front, of late, things have not been equal.

Fishman'81
03-14-2011, 02:00 AM
Compared to Orono, Grand Forks might be NYC. It has a population 5x larger than Orono's-- larger than Orono and Bangor put together. The metro Grand Forks area has a population that is 3/4 the size of the entire county that Bangor is in. UMaine's enrollment is larger than Orono's population.

Don't get me wrong. The school and the town certainly appeal to some, and I'm not sure that Grand Forks holds much of an appeal to me personally. However, I can see that all other things being equal, some would choose ND over UM-- and at least on the hockey front, of late, things have not been equal.

The demographics/economy/social culture of a college-hockey destination is probably far less important than the quality of the hockey opportunity itself.(See Lake State in the early 90s,Maine for 20 years,and UNH since Jesus was in short pants.)

I do agree with you that MC has a team this year,though...I run a little Frozen Four pool at my workplace,and I like them (and Union) as dark-horses to go deep,depending on how they're seeded.

Should be a fun tournament.There is not a great team out there this season,but there are several very good ones.

Fishman'81
03-14-2011, 02:25 AM
In the Misery Loves Company Department,it must be noted that Minnesota and Wisconsin will be teeing them up alongside Maine tomorrow,barring some PWR miracle.

BTW,Lucia maybe will be looking for a job soon;does anyone prefer him to Whitehead..?Having seen so many Gopher games over the past few years,I can say with complete confidence that I don't want either one of them.

KnowItAll
03-14-2011, 03:44 AM
i know i know...he has to sign off on the recruits, but Sullivan and Ouellette both had a decent pedigree coming in. sometimes the players have to perform..

does it strike you (at all) that neither Sullivan nor Ouellette EVER saw a single D1 shot before coming to Maine? that neither of them had ANY experience at D1 speed before coming to Maine?

It is entirely the coach's duty to bring these guys up to speed

how can they be expected to perform if they are not brought up to speed... if they do not have a serviceable goalie coach?
if you saw the mistake Sullivan made OVER AND OVER you MIGHT know that it is one that is pretty easily cured, but he needs someone to work on what he needs to be thinking out on the ice.

I sure hope that nobody throws you in a surgical suite and complains when you kill the patient, because sometimes you have to perform.

dmjossel
03-14-2011, 05:28 AM
The demographics/economy/social culture of a college-hockey destination is probably far less important than the quality of the hockey opportunity itself.(See Lake State in the early 90s,Maine for 20 years,and UNH since Jesus was in short pants.)

Oh, absolutely. BU and BC recruit well because of the program and the school-- the city is just a perk. NU is also in the city and has a great rink, it's just that the hockey opportunity in the past 20 years has not been quite on the same level with the other two schools.

I think it's just another one of those "all other things being equal" situations. If you have to be in the middle of nowhere, then you want to be on a competitive club. If you're not going to be on a competitive club (or you're walking on and unsure of a lineup spot) then some of the school's other attributes, like the environs, perhaps become slightly larger factors.

The question shouldn't be, why is it harder to recruit players to live in Orono as opposed to Grand Forks, given the environs. The question should be, given the current relative strengths of the two hockey programs, why would anyone choose Orono over Grand Forks? Given that Grand Forks gives away nothing to Orono on either counts, the recruit has only the word of the coaches to judge on-- do you believe them about what they say the program can achieve during your stay there.

dmjossel
03-14-2011, 05:29 AM
I do agree with you that MC has a team this year,though...I run a little Frozen Four pool at my workplace,and I like them (and Union) as dark-horses to go deep,depending on how they're seeded.


Better not look at the latest Bracketology, then-- that has the two of them going against each other in the first round of the regionals in Bridgeport.

walrus
03-14-2011, 07:09 AM
#3 BU is defeated by #6 NU. Let's see, BU loses last year in semi-final at the Garden and doesn't make the tournament. This year BU can't get out of the quarter-final round and probably won't make the tournament. There are Maine fans on this thread who would be calling for Parker's "head" if he were coaching Maine:D

You should be a D3 fan, you just want a team, it doesn't matter if they perform, you just want to watch hockey. Nothing wrong with that but D3 teams don't have budgets like D1 teams, they aren't expected to perform at certain levels(in most cases, Middlebury and others are exceptions I'm sure). BU underacheived and you can bet their are rumblings about Jack being past his prime. I agree with Hockeypuck, he has done less with more than any other coach except maybe Don Lucia. Lucia might get the ax also

walrus
03-14-2011, 07:12 AM
does it strike you (at all) that neither Sullivan nor Ouellette EVER saw a single D1 shot before coming to Maine? that neither of them had ANY experience at D1 speed before coming to Maine?.
Did either get better over the course of the season? Thats really all you need to know. What about Sirman over 2 seasons?

Hockeypuck
03-14-2011, 07:33 AM
Compared to Orono, Grand Forks might be NYC. It has a population 5x larger than Orono's-- larger than Orono and Bangor put together. The metro Grand Forks area has a population that is 3/4 the size of the entire county that Bangor is in. UMaine's enrollment is larger than Orono's population.

Not sure where you got your population numbers from? The metro Bangor area has a population of 148K and the metro Grand Forks area has a population of 97K so you are pretty much off base with your population point.

sjrceme
03-14-2011, 08:09 AM
It is a long shot, but if you plug in these results into chn website Maine looks to be 15th.

WCHA Play-in #2: Minnesota-Duluth defeats Bemidji State.
WCHA Play-in #1: Alaska-Anchorage defeats Colorado College.
WCHA Semifinal #2: Denver defeats Minnesota-Duluth.
WCHA Semifinal #1: North Dakota defeats Alaska-Anchorage.
WCHA Championship game: North Dakota defeats Denver.
Hockey East Semifinal #2: Merrimack defeats New Hampshire.
Hockey East Semifinal #1: Northeastern defeats Boston College.
Hockey East Championship game: Merrimack defeats Northeastern.
ECAC Semifinal #2: Cornell defeats Dartmouth.
ECAC Semifinal #1: Yale defeats Colgate.
ECAC Championship game: Yale defeats Cornell.
ECAC Consolation game: Colgate defeats Dartmouth.
CCHA Semifinal #2: Miami defeats Notre Dame.
CCHA Semifinal #1: Michigan defeats Western Michigan.
CCHA Championship game: Michigan defeats Miami.
CCHA Consolation game: Notre Dame defeats Western Michigan.
Atlantic Hockey Semifinal #2: Air Force defeats Holy Cross.
Atlantic Hockey Semifinal #1: Connecticut defeats RIT.
Atlantic Hockey Championship game: Air Force defeats Connecticut.
*

dmjossel
03-14-2011, 08:21 AM
Not sure where you got your population numbers from? The metro Bangor area has a population of 148K and the metro Grand Forks area has a population of 97K so you are pretty much off base with your population point.

Wikipedia.

The University is in Orono, and its population is listed at around 9,000. Bangor is listed as having a population of around 35,000. Grand Forks is listed as having a population of about 51,000. That puts more people in Grand Forks alone than in Orono and Bangor combined, and that's what I said, so I'm not off base there.

Bangor is the county seat of Penobscot county. The population of Penobscot is listed at 144,000. The Metro area of Grand Forks is listed at 97,000, which does indeed put it a bit under my claim of 3/4 of the County's population-- so let's say over half. I was a bit off base there.

Grand Forks' "ND-MN Metropolitcan Statistical Area" includes Grand Forks, ND and East Grand Forks, MN, which sounds to me like twin cities, of which Grand Forks is the larger. It includes Grand Forks County consists of about 3700 km2. Its population is, as previously mentioned, 97,000.

The Bangor "Metropolitan Statistical Area" includes Bangor and all of Penobscot County, not just one other city. Penobscot covers over 8000 km2. In other words, you can make Bangor's "metro area" include an additional 50,000 people or so if you increase the area covered by more than two times. Note that the figure for Penobscot County is only marginally larger than the metro Bangor area itself, even though its geographical area is much larger.

I would say, then, that making any claim to the effect that Bangor is a busier and more bustling metropolis than Grand Forks, and thus more closely approximating the glamour and glitz of the Big Apple, is, at best, "off base"; it looks like the population density in that area of Bangor's metro area is much less than that of Grand Forks'.

I can't believe I'm doing this. Was the comparison that important that you needed to cast aspersions on it without looking at the information a little closer yourself? Is it that big an affront to Bangor or the great state of Maine that the possibility that a city in North Dakota might actually have a few more people in it, or be marginally more attractive to a Canadian junior hockey player growing up on the farm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orono,_Maine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor,_Maine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penobscot_County
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Forks,_North_Dakota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Forks_County,_North_Dakota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Statistical_Area

Hockeypuck
03-14-2011, 08:25 AM
I can't believe I'm doing this. Was the comparison that important that you needed to cast aspersions on it without looking at the information a little closer yourself? Is it that big an affront to Bangor or the great state of Maine that the possibility that a city in North Dakota might actually have a few more people in it, or be marginally more attractive to a Canadian junior hockey player growing up on the farm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orono,_Maine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor,_Maine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penobscot_County
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Forks,_North_Dakota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Forks_County,_North_Dakota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Statistical_AreaComparison wasn't important at all doesn't change a thing just pointing out that some of your information was wrong.

Runsub5
03-14-2011, 08:34 AM
You should be a D3 fan, you just want a team, it doesn't matter if they perform, you just want to watch hockey. Nothing wrong with that but D3 teams don't have budgets like D1 teams, they aren't expected to perform at certain levels(in most cases, Middlebury and others are exceptions I'm sure). BU underacheived and you can bet their are rumblings about Jack being past his prime. I agree with Hockeypuck, he has done less with more than any other coach except maybe Don Lucia. Lucia might get the ax also

Why are you compelled to tell me what Divisions to be a fan of? I posted a factual observation with a :D. I love Maine hockey as much as anyone on this list. I just prefer to be more balanced and positive about Maine's future. Please don't tell me which team and division of college hockey I should support.

tylerzx2002
03-14-2011, 08:51 AM
If MC experiences a drop off, it will likely be from early departures combined with graduations; Da Costa is a sophomore and Cannata is a junior. Da Costa surprised a few by coming back this year, although I don't think it was that surprising. Many have him pegged to leave after this season.

FWIW, talking with some of the Merrimack players during the Saturday game at the Alfond a few weeks ago, they were convinced that DaCosta is gone after this year.

amherstblackbear
03-14-2011, 10:15 AM
You should be a D3 fan, you just want a team, it doesn't matter if they perform, you just want to watch hockey. Nothing wrong with that but D3 teams don't have budgets like D1 teams, they aren't expected to perform at certain levels(in most cases, Middlebury and others are exceptions I'm sure). BU underacheived and you can bet their are rumblings about Jack being past his prime. I agree with Hockeypuck, he has done less with more than any other coach except maybe Don Lucia. Lucia might get the ax also

I'd still be disappointed over this season. But . . . yeah . . . if Whitehead were a couple years removed from a national championship, he'd get more leeway, too. That's just how it is.