PDA

View Full Version : College replay video



Hockeybuckeye
03-05-2011, 10:35 PM
If I understand correctly in college hockey only the overhead camera above the goals is used for video review. In all other college sports with replay, video from all the cameras is used and also in pro hockey as well. So when is college hockey going to get up to speed? It wasn't that many years ago that we had no video review and it's certainly better now but it could be made better yet. I'm going to assume that it's because most college arenas aren't wired the way pro rinks are to have all that feed available but in the ever changing era of modern electronics shouldn't that be an easy hurdle to clear? :confused:

moose97
03-05-2011, 10:52 PM
If I understand correctly in college hockey only the overhead camera above the goals is used for video review. In all other college sports with replay, video from all the cameras is used and also in pro hockey as well. So when is college hockey going to get up to speed? It wasn't that many years ago that we had no video review and it's certainly better now but it could be made better yet. I'm going to assume that it's because most college arenas aren't wired the way pro rinks are to have all that feed available but in the ever changing era of modern electronics shouldn't that be an easy hurdle to clear? :confused:

Easy? Maybe, cheap? Hell no. Look at a school like Minnesota, where they have upwards of 5-7 cameras at every game (including the overheads). Compare to Alabama-Huntsville, who only has a single center ice camera for an internet feed. Now you're asking that each school invests several thousands of dollars in not only equipment, but in personnel to run the cameras and the replay equipment? Not very likely...

RHamilton
03-05-2011, 11:22 PM
RPI's official replay system has a feed from the student-run TV station hooked in to it. I'm not sure if it's allowed to be used for official review purposes, but I don't see why it would be hooked in otherwise.

The Rube
03-05-2011, 11:26 PM
Easy? Maybe, cheap? Hell no. Look at a school like Minnesota, where they have upwards of 5-7 cameras at every game (including the overheads). Compare to Alabama-Huntsville, who only has a single center ice camera for an internet feed. Now you're asking that each school invests several thousands of dollars in not only equipment, but in personnel to run the cameras and the replay equipment? Not very likely...

It's the "lowest common denominator" fact. Like the NFL, IIRC, there are only certain camera angles allowed, ones that are at EVERY game, for fairness. Just because you are a richer school (or in the NFL's case, are a Monday Night Football game), you shouldn't have an "advantage" over other games, because of your situation. So, However many camera angles are at EVERY game, that's how many you have to work with.

Hockeybuckeye
03-05-2011, 11:36 PM
Easy? Maybe, cheap? Hell no. Look at a school like Minnesota, where they have upwards of 5-7 cameras at every game (including the overheads). Compare to Alabama-Huntsville, who only has a single center ice camera for an internet feed. Now you're asking that each school invests several thousands of dollars in not only equipment, but in personnel to run the cameras and the replay equipment? Not very likely...

Since you would assume all broadcast cameras feed to the same central source at the overheads and the laptops they use for review are already connected to it, with the right program why can't the laptop digitally record all the camera feeds for review?

Jimjamesak
03-06-2011, 12:54 AM
Since you would assume all broadcast cameras feed to the same central source at the overheads and the laptops they use for review are already connected to it, with the right program why can't the laptop digitally record all the camera feeds for review?
Storage space and processing power for that would be enormous, not to mention the wiring needed to run a feed to both the TV production truck/room AND to the computer recording the files.

Hockeybuckeye
03-06-2011, 12:58 AM
Storage space and processing power for that would be enormous, not to mention the wiring needed to run a feed to both the TV production truck/room AND to the computer recording the files.

Not my area of expertise which is why I'm asking but the TV replay we watch in our homes in most venues is already wired into the overhead cameras the review laptops use so networking shouldn't be the main obstacle. Given the other reasons you mention but one would assume it can't be too far into the future for processing and memory needed to be easily available given how far computers have come in the past 5-10 years. We're into the terabyte range now on hard drives. How much storage is needed to record a single game from just one camera? (assuming it doesn't have to be high def)

Chris
03-06-2011, 01:03 AM
Well, WCHA rinks have a system for reviews and a separate system for TV. The angles are different and TV doesn't have access to the replay angles and the replay system doesn't have access to the TV angles. Also, the replay systems have multiple angles and not just overhead.

Jimjamesak
03-06-2011, 01:45 AM
Not my area of expertise which is why I'm asking but the TV replay we watch in our homes in most venues is already wired into the overhead cameras the review laptops use so networking shouldn't be the main obstacle. Given the other reasons you mention but one would assume it can't be too far into the future for processing and memory needed to be easily available given how far computers have come in the past 5-10 years. We're into the terabyte range now on hard drives. How much storage is needed to record a single game from just one camera? (assuming it doesn't have to be high def)
The system required for all this isn't just a "laptop". It's actually cameras wired into a video server that records, stores, and plays back the video at speeds slow enough for accurate review. This requires many many pieces, cameras with a high enough picture quality to be useful, the actual server itself, mounting the cameras, wiring said cameras into the video server, a control system to find the clips and rewind and fast foward as necessary, people to run it during the games, wiring the monitor at the scorers table, and wiring the voice communication between the replay controller and the scorers table.

So yeah, that ought to be real easy for schools to do with like 6-8 different cameras.

state of hockey
03-06-2011, 02:40 AM
Also, the replay systems have multiple angles and not just overhead.

I believe this depends on the rink.

Methodical
03-06-2011, 03:14 AM
Video DDR's (digital disk recorders) can cost in the order of 10's of thousands of dollars. Ever additional channel adds significantly to the price. Setting up the cameras and wiring the rink is no easy feat either. In most hockey arenas the Officiating replay system is completely separate from the house TV system. I don't foresee college hockey moving past the 2-camera replay system for quite a while.

moose97
03-06-2011, 12:05 PM
The system required for all this isn't just a "laptop". It's actually cameras wired into a video server that records, stores, and plays back the video at speeds slow enough for accurate review. This requires many many pieces, cameras with a high enough picture quality to be useful, the actual server itself, mounting the cameras, wiring said cameras into the video server, a control system to find the clips and rewind and fast foward as necessary, people to run it during the games, wiring the monitor at the scorers table, and wiring the voice communication between the replay controller and the scorers table.

So yeah, that ought to be real easy for schools to do with like 6-8 different cameras.

This.

If I recall, the video replay system at BSU's new rink was upwards of $50,000. And that only included the overhead cameras (and not in HD). You can't just hook a flip camera up to your laptop and call it done...

Hockeybuckeye
03-06-2011, 01:17 PM
It's a shame it's not easier and more cost effective than what's being reported. Multiple camera reviews would certainly change the outcome of some games.

IrishHockeyFan
03-06-2011, 01:46 PM
I think the real shame is that we need to rely (or believe we need to rely) on replay as much as we do. We have 4 sets of eyes on the ice now, as well as two goal judges who are still in prime real estate (unlike the NHL) to see whether or not pucks fully cross the goal line. And I haven't noticed a decline in the amount of time people will still complain about officiating (me included) or in the amount of carping the coaches do about officiating, or in the amount of time spent in forums like this disagreeing with calls even WITH the aid of replay. One needs look no further than the MSU/UA threads about the OT goal in the Friday game, or last weekend's Notre Dame/Western game. Not complete agreement on a number of goal/no goal calls there even though the plays were reviewed.

There still is no set standard for what is reviewed, instead we have each individual referee relying only on his own judgment to decide when and what to review, despite the fact that, at least in principle, there is supposed to be a set of criteria. In far too many instances I have seen a referee acquiesce to the demands of a coach to "go to the replay" even though that referee was initially quite clear in his ruling on the ice. I don't care how crappy a leagues referees are, if they bow down to the coaches in rough situations, we have chaos.

I accept the idea that human beings will make incorrect calls. I also accept the idea that even with the aid of replay, they still make incorrect calls. So lets just do away with the momentum killing delays and live with the occasional uncertainty. It isn't like we don't anyway.

And yes I am a purist. I also don't like the shootout or full face covering. I am OK with the curved blades, though.

LtPowers
03-07-2011, 10:18 AM
If I understand correctly in college hockey only the overhead camera above the goals is used for video review. In all other college sports with replay, video from all the cameras is used and also in pro hockey as well. So when is college hockey going to get up to speed? It wasn't that many years ago that we had no video review and it's certainly better now but it could be made better yet. I'm going to assume that it's because most college arenas aren't wired the way pro rinks are to have all that feed available but in the ever changing era of modern electronics shouldn't that be an easy hurdle to clear? :confused:

We're not even using replay at all in AHA. Let's start with getting those schools up to the current standards before we start talking about professional-level replay!


Powers &8^]