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BUhockey24
02-27-2011, 02:05 PM
Now that we know atleast one team that will be an at large pick: Oswego after losing last night. What are we predicting for some of the other teams at this point? How many teams from the ECAC West will go to the NCAA's. Will Norwich/Castleton get a bid if they don't win the ECAC East? How about the NESCAC, could Bowdoin fight for a spot if they lose in the NESCAC playoffs? What happens if Plattsburgh gets knocked off in SUNYAC by Fredonia?

Ozz
02-27-2011, 02:05 PM
Now that we know atleast one team that will be an at large pick: Oswego after losing last night. What are we predicting for some of the other teams at this point? How many teams from the ECAC West will go to the NCAA's. Will Norwich/Castleton get a bid if they don't win the ECAC East? How about the NESCAC, could Bowdoin fight for a spot if they lose in the NESCAC playoffs? What happens if Plattsburgh gets knocked off in SUNYAC by Fredonia?

Tournament Speculation Thread...

PrezdeJohnson09
02-27-2011, 02:09 PM
Now that we know atleast one team that will be an at large pick: Oswego after losing last night. What are we predicting for some of the other teams at this point? How many teams from the ECAC West will go to the NCAA's. Will Norwich/Castleton get a bid if they don't win the ECAC East? How about the NESCAC, could Bowdoin fight for a spot if they lose in the NESCAC playoffs? What happens if Plattsburgh gets knocked off in SUNYAC by Fredonia?

Bowdoin has to win the NESCAC. It's only a one-bid conference.

If Plattsburgh loses to Fredonia they leave the door open to being left out. I don't think the SUNYAC will be a three-bid conference.

VermontfaninNY
02-27-2011, 03:11 PM
If things go according to the way we believe they will in the West, it comes down to Castleton/Norwich + Plattsburgh (if they don't win) + Elmira/Neumann. Generally the NESCAC is a really good conference, but I don't think there is any way they get two in this year.

If Plattsburgh wins, all of the above teams get in. If they don't somebody will get screwed, probably Castleton, maybe Plattsburgh.
What could really screw this up is if Adrian/St. Norbert lose. I think that if one of those two teams lose their conference, the smoke and mirrors kick in and we have 4 teams in the West during a year when they do not deserve it.

KnightsOfTheRound
02-27-2011, 03:41 PM
If Plattsburgh loses to Fredonia they leave the door open to being left out. I don't think the SUNYAC will be a three-bid conference.

This. I don't care what the numbers say, if Fredonia is the SUNYAC autobid the committee will find a way to keep Plattsburgh home. The SUNYAC isn't getting three bids.

Edit: And deservingly so. If Plattsburgh can't beat Fredonia at home next week to get into the tournament they have no business taking another team's bid.

NUProf
02-27-2011, 03:46 PM
This. I don't care what the numbers say, if Fredonia is the SUNYAC autobid the committee will find a way to keep Plattsburgh home. The SUNYAC isn't getting three bids.
With the committee's discretion in weighting the criteria, my sense is that they will punish the Cardinals if they don't win on Sat. If the process were transparent it would be harder to keep them out. I think they will want to give the Pool Cs to three different leagues.

PrezdeJohnson09
02-27-2011, 03:53 PM
With the committee's discretion in weighting the criteria, my sense is that they will punish the Cardinals if they don't win on Sat. If the process were transparent it would be harder to keep them out. I think they will want to give the Pool Cs to three different leagues.

Exactly.

racefanvt
02-27-2011, 04:23 PM
the upsets are often why i dont like the auto bid going to a postseason tournament winner because some team who has not played well all season gets in by getting hot at the right time and teams that worked hard all season get left out kind of makes the regular season a moot point. But that being said if you are going to be an NCAA champion or at least advance deep into the postseason you need to step up and be playing your best hockey this time of the year and if you dont then i guess you deserve to be left out.

Matt Rennell
02-27-2011, 05:02 PM
With the committee's discretion in weighting the criteria, my sense is that they will punish the Cardinals if they don't win on Sat. If the process were transparent it would be harder to keep them out. I think they will want to give the Pool Cs to three different leagues.

I am not sure, why you and others are thinking this. Show me an example when committee has deliberately gone against the numbers to "spread around the Pool C love" because they didn't want a conference to have 3 teams. In fact, they have consistently taken 3 teams from a conference if they deserved it (and sometimes when they didn't). See 2006, 2008, 2009. So since the field expanded to 10 teams in 2006 (and 11 in 2009) the NCAA has taken 3 teams from one conference in 3 of the 5 years.

What would lead you to believe they would not take 3 from the SUNYAC should Plattsburgh lose to Fredonia? Especially since the team we're speaking of (Plattsburgh) has steam-rolled through every non SUNYAC team in it's path (Including potential Pool C contenders Norwich twice and Neumann once). 8-0-1 out of conference with arguably the toughest non-conference schedule in the nation?

I think we all can agree that Plattsburgh would have been the #1 Pool C team had Oswego and St. Norbert won their conference titles. But because Oswego lost to Fredonia that somehow knocks Plattsburgh out of the race because "they wont take three teams from the SUNYAC"? The logic in this thinking is nonexistent, and this is something even the NCAA can claim they have been logical and consistent on. There is no rule, written or unwritten saying they will do whatever they can to not take 3 teams from one conference.

If the SUNYAC were named the ECAC West we wouldn't even be having this discussion, which is laughable given the difference of post season performance between the two leagues.

That said, hopefully this discussion will not be needed next week as Plattsburgh will take care of business and be done with it.

PSUChamps2001
02-27-2011, 05:20 PM
I am not sure, why you and others are thinking this. Show me an example when committee has deliberately gone against the numbers to "spread around the Pool C love" because they didn't want a conference to have 3 teams. In fact, they have consistently taken 3 teams from a conference if they deserved it (and sometimes when they didn't). See 2006, 2008, 2009. So since the field expanded to 10 teams in 2006 (and 11 in 2009) the NCAA has taken 3 teams from one conference in 3 of the 5 years.

What would lead you to believe they would not take 3 from the SUNYAC should Plattsburgh lose to Fredonia? Especially since the team we're speaking of (Plattsburgh) has steam-rolled through every non SUNYAC team in it's path (Including potential Pool C contenders Norwich twice and Neumann once). 8-0-1 out of conference with arguably the toughest non-conference schedule in the nation?

I think we all can agree that Plattsburgh would have been the #1 Pool C team had Oswego and St. Norbert won their conference titles. But because Oswego lost to Fredonia that somehow knocks Plattsburgh out of the race because "they wont take three teams from the SUNYAC"? The logic in this thinking is nonexistent, and this is something even the NCAA can claim they have been logical and consistent on. There is no rule, written or unwritten saying they will do whatever they can to not take 3 teams from one conference.

If the SUNYAC were named the ECAC West we wouldn't even be having this discussion, which is laughable given the difference of post season performance between the two leagues.

That said, hopefully this discussion will not be needed next week as Plattsburgh will take care of business and be done with it.

Amen....

norm1909
02-27-2011, 05:32 PM
I am not sure, why you and others are thinking this....That said, hopefully this discussion will not be needed next week as Plattsburgh will take care of business and be done with it.

IMO, the biggest obstacle to Plattsburgh getting a pool C bid, is NCAA Division III Championships Committee Chair, Bruce Delventhal, his actions have consistently been a poor smoke screened attempt at sinking the Men's Ice Hockey program at Plattsburgh. I used to think he simply lacked sufficient skills to handle the program at Plattsburgh, but now given the blatant mismanagement and ridicule schemes, I am beginning to believe he is conniving to destroy the program. An unnecessary and embarrassingly difficult pre-game ticketing policy, the summary termination of the long time keyboard and music operator – “replaced” by a band that never returned following the winter break and unpopular music, scoreboards that STILL don’t work, these are among his “accomplishments”. If Plattsburgh’s Men's Ice Hockey program is going to achieve anything, it will be through the hard work of the players, coaching staff and dedicated individuals who make Cardinal hockey what it is, and not the usual WIFM actions of the NCAA egotists.

That said, hopefully the egotists won't have a say, as Plattsburgh will take care of business and be done with it.

sticksnstones
02-27-2011, 06:38 PM
IMO, the biggest obstacle to Plattsburgh getting a pool C bid, is NCAA Division III Championships Committee Chair, Bruce Delventhal, his actions have consistently been a poor smoke screened attempt at sinking the Men's Ice Hockey program at Plattsburgh. I used to think he simply lacked sufficient skills to handle the program at Plattsburgh, but now given the blatant mismanagement and ridicule schemes, I am beginning to believe he is conniving to destroy the program. An unnecessary and embarrassingly difficult pre-game ticketing policy, the summary termination of the long time keyboard and music operator – “replaced” by a band that never returned following the winter break and unpopular music, scoreboards that STILL don’t work, these are among his “accomplishments”. If Plattsburgh’s Men's Ice Hockey program is going to achieve anything, it will be through the hard work of the players, coaching staff and dedicated individuals who make Cardinal hockey what it is, and not the usual WIFM actions of the NCAA egotists.

That said, hopefully the egotists won't have a say, as Plattsburgh will take care of business and be done with it.


You aren't being serious, right?

spwood
02-27-2011, 07:30 PM
IMO, the biggest obstacle to Plattsburgh getting a pool C bid, is NCAA Division III Championships Committee Chair, Bruce Delventhal, his actions have consistently been a poor smoke screened attempt at sinking the Men's Ice Hockey program at Plattsburgh. I used to think he simply lacked sufficient skills to handle the program at Plattsburgh, but now given the blatant mismanagement and ridicule schemes, I am beginning to believe he is conniving to destroy the program. An unnecessary and embarrassingly difficult pre-game ticketing policy, the summary termination of the long time keyboard and music operator – “replaced” by a band that never returned following the winter break and unpopular music, scoreboards that STILL don’t work, these are among his “accomplishments”. If Plattsburgh’s Men's Ice Hockey program is going to achieve anything, it will be through the hard work of the players, coaching staff and dedicated individuals who make Cardinal hockey what it is, and not the usual WIFM actions of the NCAA egotists.

That said, hopefully the egotists won't have a say, as Plattsburgh will take care of business and be done with it.

Are you kidding me? Are there lots of grassy knolls on your planet?

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
02-28-2011, 07:20 AM
IMO, the biggest obstacle to Plattsburgh getting a pool C bid, is NCAA Division III Championships Committee Chair, Bruce Delventhal, his actions have consistently been a poor smoke screened attempt at sinking the Men's Ice Hockey program at Plattsburgh. I used to think he simply lacked sufficient skills to handle the program at Plattsburgh, but now given the blatant mismanagement and ridicule schemes, I am beginning to believe he is conniving to destroy the program. An unnecessary and embarrassingly difficult pre-game ticketing policy, the summary termination of the long time keyboard and music operator – “replaced” by a band that never returned following the winter break and unpopular music, scoreboards that STILL don’t work, these are among his “accomplishments”. If Plattsburgh’s Men's Ice Hockey program is going to achieve anything, it will be through the hard work of the players, coaching staff and dedicated individuals who make Cardinal hockey what it is, and not the usual WIFM actions of the NCAA egotists.

That said, hopefully the egotists won't have a say, as Plattsburgh will take care of business and be done with it.

Much as I dislike Delventhal's management of the program, I would never go so far as to say he is outright trying to destroy the program.

That said, Bruce doesn't get a vote on matters concerning Plattsburgh, just as McShane doesn't get a vote on matters concerning Norwich. So this doesn't matter here.

norm1909
02-28-2011, 07:58 AM
Much as I dislike Delventhal's management of the program, I would never go so far as to say he is outright trying to destroy the program.

That said, Bruce doesn't get a vote on matters concerning Plattsburgh, just as McShane doesn't get a vote on matters concerning Norwich. So this doesn't matter here.

I realize that Bruce obviously doesn’t have a vote, though I do see how my post could have been taken that way. And alas, I am not a conspiracy theorist, though in this matter I wish I was. No, I believe that this year’s Cardinal hockey team, and all those under Bruce’s, has suffered from an absolute total inability of Bruce to deliver anything positive to the program. Inaction and/or bad decisions reach a point where they become unacceptable and embarrassing, certainly recent global events have shown how unpopular and incompetent egotist will go to extremes to try to preserve their kingdoms, ignoring the reality around them. I do not believe Bruce to be so ignorant to not realize he hasn’t contributed anything to Plattsburgh, other than to be the fortunate benefactor of the hard work and dedication of others, yet, he refuses to move on, to find a position he is suited to, and IMO, resorts to embellished achievements to justify his staying on and this is the conniving I am referring to. I don’t believe Plattsburgh’s programs themselves are intentional targets; rather they are his unfortunate victims. “Home court” should provide an advantage not a detriment.

sticksnstones
02-28-2011, 09:57 AM
I realize that Bruce obviously doesn’t have a vote, though I do see how my post could have been taken that way. And alas, I am not a conspiracy theorist, though in this matter I wish I was. No, I believe that this year’s Cardinal hockey team, and all those under Bruce’s, has suffered from an absolute total inability of Bruce to deliver anything positive to the program. Inaction and/or bad decisions reach a point where they become unacceptable and embarrassing, certainly recent global events have shown how unpopular and incompetent egotist will go to extremes to try to preserve their kingdoms, ignoring the reality around them. I do not believe Bruce to be so ignorant to not realize he hasn’t contributed anything to Plattsburgh, other than to be the fortunate benefactor of the hard work and dedication of others, yet, he refuses to move on, to find a position he is suited to, and IMO, resorts to embellished achievements to justify his staying on and this is the conniving I am referring to. I don’t believe Plattsburgh’s programs themselves are intentional targets; rather they are his unfortunate victims. “Home court” should provide an advantage not a detriment.

So now what you are saying is he isn't intentionally making bad decisions, he is not able to make good decisions?

norm1909
02-28-2011, 10:26 AM
So now what you are saying is he isn't intentionally making bad decisions, he is not able to make good decisions?

I believe his current failure to acknowledge his ineptness and failure is intentional, I do not believe his initial intentions upon taking the position were to be destructive.

Russell Jaslow
02-28-2011, 11:42 AM
the upsets are often why i dont like the auto bid going to a postseason tournament winner because some team who has not played well all season gets in by getting hot at the right time and teams that worked hard all season get left out kind of makes the regular season a moot point. But that being said if you are going to be an NCAA champion or at least advance deep into the postseason you need to step up and be playing your best hockey this time of the year and if you dont then i guess you deserve to be left out.

But remember, it's the conferences who decide how the autobid is handed out, not the NCAA. The NCAA merely gives a conference an autobid. It's up to the conference to decide who gets it.

UCBadger
02-28-2011, 11:53 AM
Delventhal received his bachelor’s in sociology and religion from Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y. He received his master’s of divinity from Princeton Seminary in Princeton, N.J.

Better be careful, this man may have God on his side. :eek:

NUProf
02-28-2011, 11:55 AM
But remember, it's the conferences who decide how the autobid is handed out, not the NCAA. The NCAA merely gives a conference an autobid. It's up to the conference to decide who gets it.

But only the Ivy League in DI basketball uses a regular season championship to fill an autobid.

Russell is right the NCAA doesn't care how as long as you guarantee that every eligible team in the league has a chance, and ineligible teams (DII teams or other equally despicable scum) can't be selected.