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bigmrg74
02-25-2011, 03:52 PM
UBC could finally be joining the NCAA (http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2011/02/22/ubc-could-finally-be-joining-the-ncaa/)

If so, the Thunderbirds would be the second Canadian school in the NCAA. Their crosstown rivals, Simon Fraser, are already in the NCAA's, and make regular visits to UAA and UA_ as members of the GNAC in non-hockey sports. SFU never had a hockey team in CIS I believe, but UBC does, and does have that great on campus arena from the Olympics.

Happy
02-25-2011, 03:57 PM
great, as long as they don't try to get major junior players in. otherwise, they are just a warmer North Dakota as far as I am concerned.

Rhett
02-25-2011, 03:57 PM
The first response to the linked article is interesting:


As I see it, there are a number of factors to consider:
1) The US economy is in turmoil and the likelihood of unexpected violence increases daily. For example, the current real unemployment rate is likely more than 22% and is resulting in increasing violence.
2) The way the US is punishing us economically (eg: softwood lumber, product dumping, etc) I think we should be boycotting them every opportunity we can.
3) I donít want our young people to be subjected to the professional gropers that inhabit their borders and airports.

Rhett
02-25-2011, 04:16 PM
I was disappointed to not see New Brunswick on the list of interested schools.

Whenever I see Canadian NCAA expansion explored, I think UNB would be good for AEC & HEA. If HEA ever gets to 12 and goes with ECACH's travel partner, 22 game system, UNB would be a good partner for UMO. In AEC, I think they would make a nice compliment to the 3 Northern New England flagships.

What I was pleased to see was McGill was exploring a NCAA move. Who knows if it would happen like this, but I can imagine a Montreal school joining a Boston-centric conference would really galvinize the fanbase. They're also less than 2 hours from UVM, if the partner system ever came to pass. Plus, roadtrips to Montreal.

The article mentions that UBC is exploring NCAA II, not NCAA I. Every article I've read on the topic focuses on NCAA II expansion. I know that the 3 NCAA divisions self-govern in many respects. Is the dropping of an international ban on NCAA expansion an NCAA II exclusive bylaw change, in order to stem the flow of programs fleeing to NCAA I & III? Would NCAA I be an option? Does anyone know the current status of NCAA's single-sport, play-up legislation? I know there have been moratoriums, but don't know the current status.

darker98
02-25-2011, 04:19 PM
Great, now we have to fight UBC for over aged Canadians. How are we going to compete with the Goofer's All Minnesota Roster?

CHFAN222
02-25-2011, 04:31 PM
I was disappointed to not see New Brunswick on the list of interested schools.

Whenever I see Canadian NCAA expansion explored, I think UNB would be good for AEC & HEA. If HEA ever gets to 12 and goes with ECACH's travel partner, 22 game system, UNB would be a good partner for UMO. In AEC, I think they would make a nice compliment to the 3 Northern New England flagships.

What I was pleased to see was McGill was exploring a NCAA move. Who knows if it would happen like this, but I can imagine a Montreal school joining a Boston-centric conference would really galvinize the fanbase. They're also less than 2 hours from UVM, if the partner system ever came to pass. Plus, roadtrips to Montreal.

The article mentions that UBC is exploring NCAA II, not NCAA I. Every article I've read on the topic focuses on NCAA II expansion. I know that the 3 NCAA divisions self-govern in many respects. Is the dropping of an international ban on NCAA expansion an NCAA II exclusive bylaw change, in order to stem the flow of programs fleeing to NCAA I & III? Would NCAA I be an option? Does anyone know the current status of NCAA's single-sport, play-up legislation? I know there have been moratoriums, but don't know the current status.

Playing up would not be an issue. There is currently no Division II NCAA hockey championship so any DII is allowed to start a D1 Hockey program as long as they comply with Title IX. So if UBC made the jump their hockey team would automatically compete in D1.

The only problem would be finding competition. Unless they could convince UAH and UAF to leave their conferences and convince other school in the Pacific Northwest to start up teams travel could be a problem.

Rhett
02-25-2011, 04:38 PM
Playing up would not be an issue. There is currently no Division II NCAA hockey championship so any DII is allowed to start a D1 Hockey program as long as they comply with Title IX. So if UBC made the jump their hockey team would automatically compete in D1.

This is not true for men's ice hockey. The NCAA divides men's ice hockey into I, II, and III. There are 6 NCAA II programs. There is a difference between not having enough schools to hold a NCAA branded championship and not existing.

This would be true for women's ice hockey. The NCAA divides women's ice hockey into National Collegiate and III.

4four4
02-25-2011, 05:45 PM
Great, now we have to fight UBC for over aged Canadians. How are we going to compete with the Goofer's All Minnesota Roster?

I agree with you.

4four4
02-25-2011, 05:47 PM
Playing up would not be an issue. There is currently no Division II NCAA hockey championship so any DII is allowed to start a D1 Hockey program as long as they comply with Title IX. So if UBC made the jump their hockey team would automatically compete in D1.

The only problem would be finding competition. Unless they could convince UAH and UAF to leave their conferences and convince other school in the Pacific Northwest to start up teams travel could be a problem.

With Minnesota and Wisconsin leaving the WCHA UBC will fit in nicely.

darker98
02-25-2011, 06:30 PM
I agree with you.

Of course you do. I'm always right. ;) :D

Jimjamesak
02-25-2011, 08:09 PM
The only problem would be finding competition. Unless they could convince UAH and UAF to leave their conferences and convince other school in the Pacific Northwest to start up teams travel could be a problem.

I'm assuming you meant UAA and not UAH.

If both UBC and Simon Fraizer decide to play NCAA hockey then it's just a matter of finding two more schools to join up as well. Air Force would be a longshot, they seem to like playing AH and don't mind the travel cost. The problem is the absolute domination of the WHL in recruiting talent from the area, US and Canada both, plus hockey isn't the most popular sport in the area.

bigmrg74
02-26-2011, 12:53 PM
I was disappointed to not see New Brunswick on the list of interested schools.

Whenever I see Canadian NCAA expansion explored, I think UNB would be good for AEC & HEA. If HEA ever gets to 12 and goes with ECACH's travel partner, 22 game system, UNB would be a good partner for UMO. In AEC, I think they would make a nice compliment to the 3 Northern New England flagships.

What I was pleased to see was McGill was exploring a NCAA move. Who knows if it would happen like this, but I can imagine a Montreal school joining a Boston-centric conference would really galvinize the fanbase. They're also less than 2 hours from UVM, if the partner system ever came to pass. Plus, roadtrips to Montreal.

The article mentions that UBC is exploring NCAA II, not NCAA I. Every article I've read on the topic focuses on NCAA II expansion. I know that the 3 NCAA divisions self-govern in many respects. Is the dropping of an international ban on NCAA expansion an NCAA II exclusive bylaw change, in order to stem the flow of programs fleeing to NCAA I & III? Would NCAA I be an option? Does anyone know the current status of NCAA's single-sport, play-up legislation? I know there have been moratoriums, but don't know the current status.

NCAA II has been the division thats sponsered some of the studies on the NCAA side at what it would take for a Canadian school to come south. Simon Fraser has traditionally leaned a little more south than any other Canadian school because they used to be in the Cascade Conference, which was NAIA until a bunch of the private schools in that league decided that they wanted to take their ball and go NCAA D3, and in the process, pretty much slit their own and everybody else's throats in the Pacific Northwest for small college football, from what I've gathered from some old football buffs out that way.

Word is that the NCAA wouldn't mind having a few of the Canadian schools within its ranks, as it does open up a few more markets to them, and would expand that all important revenue stream. Pulling some of the bigger schools like UBC and others like McGill are not going to be like adding a brand new SEC school, but you pretty much pull in the big boys of the CIS to the point that it pretty much collapses, then you've got a much larger base to sell NCAA broadcasting rights too, along with developing more viewers for college sports in Canada. It really wouldn't be a right now type of deal, as it would stand, as even if Simon Fraser had a conference that wanted to move all up to the D1 level, it would still be 5 years away before they would be classified as a D1 school, and another 2 after that I believe before they would be ellegable for postseason play in say the Big Dance in Basketball. But thats going to be a while before a Canada school would have the kind of local following that would make them attractive to a D1 conference, especally when you would have to factor in the additional travel cost and hassle of crossing the border as well.

So, for now, giving the Canadians a tryout in D2 is a pretty good deal for the NCAA right now. Plus, The Great Northwest Athletic Conference is a much better travel wise for SFU and UBC, located in Vancouver. UBC has to cross the Canadian Rockies to get to their closest conference mates in Calgary, and then you start looking at just how long it would take to bus a team to say Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnepeg, the travel adds up and you can see where they might be a little more interested in playing in a league thats mostly in Washington and Oregon.

CHFAN222
02-26-2011, 01:53 PM
This is not true for men's ice hockey. The NCAA divides men's ice hockey into I, II, and III. There are 6 NCAA II programs. There is a difference between not having enough schools to hold a NCAA branded championship and not existing.

This would be true for women's ice hockey. The NCAA divides women's ice hockey into National Collegiate and III.

I am almost positive that the NCAA will grant a waiver for a DII school to play up in D1 for Mens hockey since there is no championship.

Happy
02-26-2011, 02:44 PM
Great, now we have to fight UBC for over aged Canadians. How are we going to compete with the Goofer's All Minnesota Roster?

You have been proven chokers now for over ten years. I guess you could always get drunk, fall face first into a snowbank, and freeze your toes off. You guys seem to be good at that.

darker98
02-26-2011, 02:55 PM
You have been proven chokers now for over ten years. I guess you could always get drunk, fall face first into a snowbank, and freeze your toes off. You guys seem to be good at that.

11 years or 8 years, there isn't much of a difference. We even choke at freezing all our toes off.

Happy
02-26-2011, 04:09 PM
11 years or 8 years, there isn't much of a difference. We even choke at freezing all our toes off.

Your coach is an overage Canadian, so you got that going for you. I wonder if he has his green card, or can we deport him next time he comes to Minnesota?

Rhett
02-26-2011, 11:30 PM
I am almost positive that the NCAA will grant a waiver for a DII school to play up in D1 for Mens hockey since there is no championship.

That's a neat way to admit that your original premise was wrong.

Now we're in a land where we assume a waiver will be granted by the NCAA. OK. On what grounds? I know RIT got to play up in hockey because they got their application in under the wire before a play-up moratorium went into place. No one has commented on if that moratorium is still in place or not. This matters.

We already know the NCAA won't let NCAA II schools play in the NCAA III ice hockey championship 'since there is no championship'. They've asked. They find a way to bring it up every year. Why not? Because there's a crappy NCAA bylaw in their way.

You can't make assumtions when NCAA bylaws are involved. If you are 'almost positive' something will happen and know that an NCAA bylaw bars, restricts, ambiguously governs, or otherwise muddles the situation, take a deep breath, and temper that assumtion with a healthy dose of pessimism.

Now, maybe if the CIS schools in question joined NCAA II, multiple powerful sides will pull strings and make these school's ability to play some NCAA I hockey as soon as possible a reality. Maybe. But realize that, as things stand, Franklin Pierce and Stonehill might have to do more than just ask.

Rhett
02-26-2011, 11:49 PM
bigmrg79,

Thanks for the analysis. I knew about Simon Fraser's NAIA history, but never considered their and UBC's shared geographical dilemma.

bigmrg74
02-27-2011, 12:58 AM
bigmrg79,

Thanks for the analysis. I knew about Simon Fraser's NAIA history, but never considered their and UBC's shared geographical dilemma.

Its not just Geography, UBC is a pretty prestigious school. Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that it was located in Canada, it probably would have been in the PAC along with Washington, UCLA, and Stanford. You gotta think that they're not exactly thrilled to be going up against schools that are pretty small, and not really that well known.

Canada West (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_West_Universities_Athletic_Association)

Oh, a quick side bar, when I was talking about UBC having nobody in Canada West close to the, going over the Rockies, I was mostly talking about that issue from the issue of football teams, and the travel that that team would do there.

bigmrg74
02-27-2011, 09:26 PM
great, as long as they don't try to get major junior players in. otherwise, they are just a warmer North Dakota as far as I am concerned.

Simon Fraser had to pretty much gut their football team for this year because they didn't have many kids that would have qualified under NCAA D2 rules. I don't think we would have to worry much about MJ's and other overaged Canadians playing for them. Their fans however.... that could be another story. ;)