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View Full Version : RPI 2010-2011 V: The "Chase" to AC & Beyond



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Red Cloud
03-08-2011, 12:50 PM
I'm going to preface the next part by saying I don't think we should get rid of Appert or anything but I was wondering how many years of early exits do you feel would happen before there needs to be a discussion about it.

I wouldn't say there's a hard and fast number. There has to be a pretty clear correlation with expectations. If the summer plays out in such a manner that we have reasonably high expectations (and I'm not just talking about johnk's expectation that we win the ECACs every year) and we falter again, then maybe the answer is one. Rational people shouldn't throw out the good because of the bad.

hockeymascot
03-08-2011, 12:52 PM
Also, to the Fridgen lover: Yes, he did OK in his first 5 years. Where did he go after that?

I believe that is around the time that Shirley showed up!:)

TimU
03-08-2011, 12:59 PM
There are either 4 or 5 (not sure if Colgate does athletic scholarships for hockey or not) schools that can technically give "athletic" scholarships, and we have better hockey facilities than at least 3 of those (Colgate, SLU, and Clarkson).

Colgate: no question. SLU: people could argue both ways (except for that new scoreboard!). Clarkson: have you been to Cheel?

Ralph Baer
03-08-2011, 01:00 PM
I think johnk has a good point about how we should realistically finish in the top 4 more often than not. There are either 4 or 5 (not sure if Colgate does athletic scholarships for hockey or not) schools that can technically give "athletic" scholarships, and we have better hockey facilities than at least 3 of those (Colgate, SLU, and Clarkson). I'm a Steelers fan and I prefer the attitude of that team where anything less than a Super Bowl win is considered a bad season. I think that for RPI anything less than a trip to the ECAC championship weekend should be considered a bad season.

And FlagDude the reason that people get irritated about losses in Feb versus the beginning of the season is that wins down the stretch generally setup teams for a playoff run. These last 2 years RPI has coasted/been on a slide into the playoffs and run into hot teams that smacked RPI around and sent them home.

Colgate does now offer athletic scholarships although I do not think that they offer 18 of them for hockey.

johnk
03-08-2011, 01:08 PM
I can't believe I ever wasted my time respecting you.

Has college hockey not changed one iota since Adessa's first five years? Since Powers or Fridgen's? The comparisons are bunk. Gee, did any of those guys have a Union, Dartmouth, Princeton, or Yale team that was worth a darn to recruit against or play against? Hang on, let me answer that one for you - no. They only had to recruit and play well against SLU, Clarkson, Cornell, Harvard, and occasionally Colgate when it came to the ECACs. Those four teams were so hideously bad back then on a year in, year out basis that you could skate your reserve players and still win. Today the league, top to bottom, is far more competitive than it ever was under the three men you mentioned, not to mention that Appert is the first of those four to be coaching in the ECAC when it was not generally on par with the other three major conferences during his first five years. Did you think about that? No, of course you didn't. So he's starting off right there with a bit of a handicap.

You want to know what Appert has done for the program? Try this on for size.
* We have increased our win totals in both of the last two seasons.
* We have put ourselves into the discussion for the NCAA tournament for the first time in over a decade.
* We have landed recruits good enough to have the NHL come calling after just one season. That's bringing in the talent.
* We have been in a position to compete for the first round bye for consecutive seasons for the first time since the ECAC adopted its current playoff system.
* We have seen the hockey program return to its position of prominence within the athletic department and the Institute.
* We've seen the Field House undergo renovations, including brand new locker rooms and the most state-of-the-art scoreboard in the league.

I'm sorry, John, am I boring you yet?

* We've watched as a freshman who was passed over by practically everyone grew into what should be a two-time ECAC Player of the Year (only two others have ever done that) and a two-time Hobey Baker Finalist. Was that just magic?
* We've watched as a highly touted young goaltender grew into one of the best backstops in the entire country.
* We watched expectations take a serious beating at the start of the year thanks to unexpected departures with no time to adjust for them, and still finished with a better record than last season.

No one here is suggesting that everything is running exactly as we'd like it to go. No, of course it isn't. We are all disappointed in the playoff results of the past two seasons and we all want the team to do better. The problem is, you see what happened in the past and you can't get by the negatives that exist. You simply can't see the forest for the trees, can you? What are the answers, John? Is it just to continue to bay and moan like a dog in heat? That seems to be your gameplan.

Pensfan08, I think, has done the right analysis of the situation. He/she sees that there are two areas of coaching in which Mr. Appert very obviously excels, and one that he clearly is growing at. You are willing to ignore the first two because they haven't resulted in championships to date (in spite of the items I discussed at the top, of course). He is the youngest coach in the ECAC. He spent years learning from one of the best in the business. His trendline on being a bench coach has been one of improvement, but that's not nearly fast enough for you. He has to shoulder the burden of those years before him when the team was struggling as well, doesn't he? Those years made him responsible for giving YOU a trophy NOW.

If you want instant gratification, I suggest you go elsewhere, John. You're in Niskayuna, it wouldn't be so far fetched for you to turn your car around and head the other way. Go root for Union, they're winning right now. That's all you need, isn't it? Winning right now? Go. Get your instant gratification. You know what, even better, why don't you just start rooting for Cornell? Their fans don't care how they win either, they just want to win. Whether the game is exciting or interesting is no item.

And now, when someone calls you out for being a whiner, your response is to call him gay. You're a big man, aren't you?

You have joined the ranks of those who only show up around here to whine and kvetch when things don't go our way. I hope you're proud. When we celebrate a championship in the near future, I hope you're just as invisible then as you were this season when we were lighting it up.

Now go ahead, John. Turn your guns on me. Let's go, tough guy. Call me a scumbag. Tell me I'm wrong for being upset when the referees screw up for the millionth time and make it harder for RPI to pick up points. Tell me Jacob Laliberte and Matt Neal are dog****. Oh, I'm sorry, you don't even know who those names are yet, do you? You want to pick on AspyDad for having opinions, you'd better come strong, and you haven't got jack.

I can summarize your whole post and by saying you accept mediocre results and all is fine because we have two recruits coming in from one of the worst junior leagues in North America. You are full of $hit and act like a complete *** on this board and I really dont want your respect. Land all the recruits you want. I want results and I am growing more impatient, especially after the complete collapse this season. Is any not watching what is happening on the ice? Completely outplayed for most of the last 15 games and if not for York they wouldn't have even got as far as they did. No I'm sorry you were looking at the renovations and the new scoreboard. You know what Tom, where in any of my posts did I ask for championships? An appearence in the ECAC's would be nice. Where did I say Seth wasn't a good recruiter? I have actually complemented him for the talent he has brought in. He is not that good of a bench coach right now and I hope that changes. As far as your first pargraph, what a joke. There have been poor teams and good teams in the ECAC since 1985. And we have had to recruit against all of them. I can say Seth has never had to recruit against a state school like Vermont. So what! And the fieldhouse renovations are a benefit to Seth, not because of him so get that thought out of your head. To summarize all of your we have watched and all we have seen garbage over the last 5 years: We have not seen a bye with a top 4 finish. We have not seen a home playoff series win. We have not seen a single trip to the ECAC's and we have seen a team with no scholarships, a horrible building without a state of the art scoreboard blow right past us! Instant gratification? Win now! How about the ECAC's evry so often? Is that asking too much?

johnk
03-08-2011, 01:09 PM
Where did Johnk go?

Lunch is that Ok with you Dad?

johnk
03-08-2011, 01:12 PM
I wouldn't say there's a hard and fast number. There has to be a pretty clear correlation with expectations. If the summer plays out in such a manner that we have reasonably high expectations (and I'm not just talking about johnk's expectation that we win the ECACs every year) and we falter again, then maybe the answer is one. Rational people shouldn't throw out the good because of the bad.

There you go again. I cleary said my expectations (which don't mean jack!) are for this team to be a Top 4 ECAC team 3 or 4 times a decade with an occasional NCAA Bid. Go back an READ my post. I'm starting to think that is too high!

Red Cloud
03-08-2011, 01:12 PM
I can summarize your whole post and by saying you accept mediocre results and all is fine

And stop. Go read my post first and then respond. I refuse to read anything more until you do, because this makes it crystal clear that you didn't.

Red Cloud
03-08-2011, 01:13 PM
There you go again. I cleary said my expectations (which don't mean jack!) are for this team to be a Top 4 ECAC team 3 or 4 times a decade with an occasional NCAA Bid. Go back an READ my post. I'm starting to think that is too high!

You first. Your words are becoming highly erratic and irrational. Blind hate will do that to a person.

FlagDUDE08
03-08-2011, 01:19 PM
I can summarize your whole post and by saying you accept mediocre results and all is fine because we have two recruits coming in from one of the worst junior leagues in North America. You are full of $hit and act like a complete *** on this board and I really dont want your respect. Land all the recruits you want. I want results and I am growing more impatient, especially after the complete collapse this season. Is any not watching what is happening on the ice? Completely outplayed for most of the last 15 games and if not for York they wouldn't have even got as far as they did. No I'm sorry you were looking at the renovations and the new scoreboard. You know what Tom, where in any of my posts did I ask for championships? An appearence in the ECAC's would be nice. Where did I say Seth wasn't a good recruiter? I have actually complemented him for the talent he has brought in. He is not that good of a bench coach right now and I hope that changes. As far as your first pargraph, what a joke. There have been poor teams and good teams in the ECAC since 1985. And we have had to recruit against all of them. I can say Seth has never had to recruit against a state school like Vermont. So what! And the fieldhouse renovations are a benefit to Seth, not because of him so get that thought out of your head. To summarize all of your we have watched and all we have seen garbage over the last 5 years: We have not seen a bye with a top 4 finish. We have not seen a home playoff series win. We have not seen a single trip to the ECAC's and we have seen a team with no scholarships, a horrible building without a state of the art scoreboard blow right past us! Instant gratification? Win now! How about the ECAC's evry so often? Is that asking too much?

******** title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jPZ3JX6M7Y4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

FlagDUDE08
03-08-2011, 01:22 PM
Maybe my expectations are too high but with the facilities and resources RPI has compared to others in the ECAC, I expect this team to be a consistent top 4 ECAC team and an NCAA bid 2 or 3 times a decade.


There you go again. I cleary said my expectations (which don't mean jack!) are for this team to be a Top 4 ECAC team 3 or 4 times a decade with an occasional NCAA Bid. Go back an READ my post. I'm starting to think that is too high!

No, you didn't. Nice try.

Ralph Baer
03-08-2011, 01:24 PM
It's hard to keep up with this thread this afternoon. :D

Red Cloud
03-08-2011, 01:26 PM
This one might work better, FlagDUDE.

<div>******** width="512" height="322">******* name="movie" value="http://d.yimg.com/static.video.yahoo.com/yep/YV_YEP.swf?ver=2.2.46" />******* name="allowFullScreen" value="true" />******* name="AllowScriptAccess" VALUE="always" />******* name="bgcolor" value="#000000" />******* name="flashVars" value="id=16043226&vid=6180935&lang=en-us&intl=us&thumbUrl=http%3A//l.yimg.com/a/p/i/bcst/yahoomovies/10456/94901369.jpg&embed=1" />******* src="http://d.yimg.com/static.video.yahoo.com/yep/YV_YEP.swf?ver=2.2.46" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="512" height="322" allowFullScreen="true" AllowScriptAccess="always" bgcolor="#000000" flashVars="id=16043226&vid=6180935&lang=en-us&intl=us&thumbUrl=http%3A//l.yimg.com/a/p/i/bcst/yahoomovies/10456/94901369.jpg&embed=1" ></embed></object><br /><a href="http://video.yahoo.com/watch/6180935/16043226">&#39;Willy Wonka&#39; I Want It Now</a> @ <a href="http://video.yahoo.com" >Yahoo! Video</a></div>

johnk
03-08-2011, 01:28 PM
And stop. Go read my post first and then respond. I refuse to read anything more until you do, because this makes it crystal clear that you didn't.

You know what Tom, you obviously do the same and pick the points you don't like and cleary exagerate them. I'm done. I am an RPI supporter and want them to succeed. I started my post because of certain individuals bashing Ken and IMO giving Appert more credit then deserved. It doen't matter or change my opinion because I am personal friends with Ken or Dan. I hope next year this team achieves whatever goals the coach has set for them. I will continue to base MY opinion on where I would like them to be.

FlagDUDE08
03-08-2011, 01:30 PM
It's hard to keep up with this thread this afternoon. :D

I know, there's about as much action as when D'Amigo bolted.

Red Cloud
03-08-2011, 01:30 PM
I'm done.

Got that right. I'm embarrassed to be a fan of the same team as you, but every fan base has their little embarrassments, don't they?

johnk
03-08-2011, 01:35 PM
No, you didn't. Nice try.

Sorry didn't use EXACT same wording for you but as Tom stated "and I'm not just talking about johnk's expectation that we win the ECACs every year" is not what I was implying. I would say it would be pretty consistant if we could be a top 4 ECAC team 3 or 4 times a decade, wouldn't you?

FlagDUDE08
03-08-2011, 01:36 PM
This one might work better, FlagDUDE.


Well played. Although thank you for getting the oompa-loompa song stuck in my head. :eek: :mad:

Red Cloud
03-08-2011, 01:37 PM
Sorry didn't use EXACT same wording for you but as Tom stated "and I'm not just talking about johnk's expectation that we win the ECACs every year" is not what I was implying. I would say it would be pretty consistant if we could be a top 4 ECAC team 3 or 4 times a decade, wouldn't you?

So, what you're saying is, you don't like it when other people exaggerate your position, is that what I'm understanding here?

Maybe you should just call me gay or something, then. I mean, isn't that what you do when you aren't "full of $hit and act like a complete *** on this board?"

Senna
03-08-2011, 01:39 PM
I posted last week before the Colgate series that the team had seems past peak and was a bit uninspired. I think that I also commented on not having ever seen Appert as demonstrative as during the time out that he took at the end of the game against Princeton. All in all, I think that the end of the season has been a bit of a let down for all of us, but mostly for the team and coaches. I think that we all see where this program is going and just want more, and there is nothing wrong with that. Its what makes good teams and good programs great.

Here's where it all comes together for me - I grew up in Troy and have been going to games since the early '70s. I have personally known some of the coaches and players throughout the years. My son plays youth hockey and the players dedicate their time to come to practices. I have met Coach Appert a couple of times and personally know Col. Knowlton. I have played and coached youth hockey for almost 20 years, and can tell you with an absolute certainty that this program and these individuals are what I would want my boys to be associated with. My oldest is in the process for admission to RPI and I have never been happier in my life than thinking about him being admitted and earning his degree from here. My youngest sees this team and these coaches and members of the athletic department and looks at them as people he is excited to be around, and less about wins and losses. He even told Appert that he some day dreams of playing for him and on this team (when he was 14).

So, we can hold our heads because we didnt get what we wanted (AC and an NCAA berth), and we can complain about the "what ifs" with D'Amigo, Pirri, and the refs (who really are horrible), OR we can recongize the gem that we have with this AD, Coach, and these Players. These are some truly special people here. I agree with whoever else said it - you just want wins, then follow Cornell or dream of having people like Harry Z as your teammate. Not going to happen here. I'll take what we have been blessed with and what is being built. I was not fortunate enough to go to RPI, but I can tell you that I am honestly happy for and proud of these kids and this program - and as said before, would die to have my kids associated with the school and the people in this program. A great thing is being built. Count on it.