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View Full Version : Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?



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DaveStPaul
02-15-2011, 06:15 AM
Where were we?

DaveStPaul
02-15-2011, 06:44 AM
Right.

dmjossel wrote: See, the problem though here is that it is a disrespect to those teams, and their fans. It might not be intended as one, but it is nonetheless. It's the arrogance that asserts that because BU is BU, what is a good performance for another program is unacceptable for them. It's the difference between a confident, but earnest desire to be the best, and the presumption that one is better than others, and finding fault with those who fail to turn this ideal state into a reality, as if it were solely within their power to grant.

Well, there are two kinds of arrogance: earned and unearned. I'd say BU has earned the expectation that we be an elite program.

Take Kentucky basketball. They've got 7 national championships. They're almost always in the hunt for another. They've earned the right to expect that position. They're baying for blood down there though, because they haven't won a championship since '98. Now, it's true you could say: "Why are they freaking out in Kentucky? They've made Elite Eights and Sweet Sixteens all the time since '98. That's arrogant of them to think they should do better. They must think they're better than other schools. It's dissing all the other programs, I tell you!" Their answer is, "That's nice you're offended on behalf of all other college programs. But the Sweet 16 doesn't cut it here."

On the other hand, you could take Michigan Tech hockey. Three national championships in a 12-year span, and 10 Frozen Four appearances in the 60s and 70s. By 1981 -- their last F4 appearance -- I'm sure they had a feeling that as you said "what is a good performance for another program is unacceptable for them." But could they say that now? No way. At some point expecting excellence slipped away from them. But it only could slip away because they'd earned it in the first place.

And I'd say part of what some people are concerned about at BU is that, since things aren't more consistently excellent, soon there will be no reason to expect that. And it's at that point where, if you're saying, "No way RIT should be in the Frozen Four instead of us!," then you've got unearned arrogance. Which is bad. :p

Jacques Joubert
02-15-2011, 09:20 AM
As a BU fan, alum, and season ticket holder here's a list of my yearly expectations:

First the ones that are easy to measure:

1.) The team should get 20+ wins
2.) To finish in the top 4 of HE to earn home ice in the HE quarters
3.) To make the NCAAs at least 5 times a decade

The more qualitative ones:

4.) The team should play with the same intensity and skill every night, as opposed to the level of the competition
5.) For the players and coaches to appear to be a more cohesive unit, rather than an "us against them type of thing" that we often see in the media
6.) A >90% graduation rate, early departures for the NHL not withstanding. This means less dismissals from the team.
7.) The team to show hustle and hard work, night in and night out.

Is this too much to expect?

Nick Papagiorgio
02-15-2011, 09:36 AM
As a BU fan, alum, and season ticket holder here's a list of my yearly expectations:

First the ones that are easy to measure:

1.) The team should get 20+ wins
2.) To finish in the top 4 of HE to earn home ice in the HE quarters
3.) To make the NCAAs at least 5 times a decade

The more qualitative ones:

4.) The team should play with the same intensity and skill every night, as opposed to the level of the competition
6.) A >90% graduation rate, early departures for the NHL not withstanding. This means less dismissals from the team.
7.) The team to show hustle and hard work, night in and night out.

Is this too much to expect?

Honestly, for a program like BU, 5 times in a decade is not even enough. I'd say 7-8 has to be the minimum. 2 off years a decade, I could live with that. But just 5 NCAA trips at minimum is still too low of a minimum. Of course, you have to do something with those bids. I'd prefer 5 trips to the show if it meant 4 FFs and 1 or 2 NCs over 7-8 trips that yield nothing (see Michigan).

In many ways, I think you are expecting too much on the 4th, 6th and 7th point. For 4 and 7, you will NEVER see any team in any sport dominate nightly. That's just sports. There will always be an off night.

For point 6, well... I know Andy Glass is a liar according to Colby Cohen, but... I'm just not sure Parker really does care about academics as much as some people would like. And lowering the # of dismissals will come from one of two things... either Parker goes a little more lax on his rules or he emphasizes character (tough to judge especially at the young age of these commitments) more when recruiting.

Just some thoughts. I know you guys are in the dumper today. It is what it is. You guys blew chunks in a game you guys had to win but... the season was probably a lost cause anyway. I see some angry quotes from Jack today but didn't see them all. Did he take any accountability for this?

Jacques Joubert
02-15-2011, 10:01 AM
I guess I didn't have a 5th point. Funny. I'm clearly emotional today...

How about this:

5th.) For the team to care about the season 1/2 as much as its loyal fans

Have you guys ever seen the Tim Tebow press conference after the Gators lost to Ole Miss? I think it's dubbed "The Promise".

Talk about accountability and respect for the fans.

Is a little of that too much to ask?

If after this stretch they come back and play hard for the last 6 HE contests, I'll be happy.

If they've all packed it in then why shouldn't we?

I can think of other ways to spend $900 other than watching these guys ruin my weekend.

Nick Papagiorgio
02-15-2011, 10:22 AM
You did have a 5th one, I just edited it out because it wasn't something I was going to comment on.

- Accountability starts from the top. Honest question: Does Jack take accountability? Seems more often than not he doesn't and puts it on the players most times (I know a few times he has taken responsibility but not enough)... but that's just my take from afar. I'd be thoroughly impressed if I saw Jack Parker do a Tim Tebow press conference minus all the references to God and Jesus and all that crap.

- It's awfully tough for the team to care about the team as much as a lot of the fanboys do here. That's for sure.

- I wouldn't blame ya for packing it in and saving some money. It's a long season. Not fairweather IMO.

Federal League
02-15-2011, 11:35 AM
Just to clarify, Victor Saponari and Andrew Glass will still end up with degrees from BU. If you want to see fewer dismissals from the team, that's fine, but those guys weren't kicked out of school and will still graduate. Vinny had the same option but chose to leave. Given his NHL aspirations, that was obviously the right move for him. A lot of guys who leave early come back to take classes over the summer and get their degree as well. I know people like Nick love to think Parker couldn't give two craps about academics, but that simply couldn't be further from the truth.

Jofa
02-15-2011, 11:47 AM
You did have a 5th one, I just edited it out because it wasn't something I was going to comment on.

- Accountability starts from the top. Honest question: Does Jack take accountability? Seems more often than not he doesn't and puts it on the players most times (I know a few times he has taken responsibility but not enough)... but that's just my take from afar. I'd be thoroughly impressed if I saw Jack Parker do a Tim Tebow press conference minus all the references to God and Jesus and all that crap.

- It's awfully tough for the team to care about the team as much as a lot of the fanboys do here. That's for sure.

- I wouldn't blame ya for packing it in and saving some money. It's a long season. Not fairweather IMO.

Going intio the 1998 season BU "was" argubably in the conversation with a couple other schools as the top D1 hockey program in the country, as an overall program (all aspects) as well as success. Since that time 1 appearance in the FF over 14 years (inc. the expected failure this season). The 2009 title was just an aberration lets face it, luck and alot of talent was on their side during the post season. Since that period BC has easily become the top hockey program in the country and I dont even think there is a 2nd school in the conversation. In his own backyard Parker has allowed that to happen, through a multitude of reasons including not recruiting the best "college" players, not getting his team ready to play consistently, not maintaining on and off ice discipline and leadership. Its been almost a total failure by the standards BU had set for themselves or atleast should have set for themselves. Absolutely Nick, BU should expect 7-8 NCAA app. per decade with 2-3 FF's. This is BU's only major sport of consequence this is what they do, if they dont get recognition and publicity here they arent getting any. What big time b'ball or football coach would survive 14 years of relative mediocrity at their college without some sort of buyout being proposed. When Cohen scored the OT winner in 2009 my first though was great, my second thought was we are now stuck with this buffoon of a Coach for another 5 to 8 years. Most on this board love Parker and would love to get close to him at the rink, alot of admiration going on. Sorry guys he is slowly killing the program or atleast putting it a significant notch below the top tier (national) teams. BU is closer to NU as a program then they are to BC right now.

Jacques Joubert
02-15-2011, 11:59 AM
Just to clarify, Victor Saponari and Andrew Glass will still end up with degrees from BU. If you want to see fewer dismissals from the team, that's fine, but those guys weren't kicked out of school and will still graduate. Vinny had the same option but chose to leave. Given his NHL aspirations, that was obviously the right move for him. A lot of guys who leave early come back to take classes over the summer and get their degree as well. I know people like Nick love to think Parker couldn't give two craps about academics, but that simply couldn't be further from the truth.

FL - Thanks for the response. You know more that most of us do. I meant the team and not school, but it's good to know that these kids have the option.

Why was Brett Bennett let go again? He seemed like an OK goalie who could sit the bench as well as Rollheiser.

As an aside I thought Rollie should have gotten the nod last night. Give him a game at the Garden to reward his efforts and I honestly thought the D might play better in front of him beacuse "they'd have to".

Agganis
02-15-2011, 12:08 PM
As an aside I thought Rollie should have gotten the nod last night. Give him a game at the Garden to reward his efforts and I honestly thought the D might play better in front of him beacuse "they'd have to".

Right now he doesn't have enough confidence to make a start in a game that you cannot lose if you are still fighting for an at large bid (not that it went so hot anyway). He hasn't registered enough minutes to have his teammates' faith and is nervous because he has so few opportunities to earn more minutes. Shockingly, his minutes have gone down each year of his career (647-388-241) this despite the fact that the only reason he was dropped from getting an even split of the minutes was a first semester freshman year injury. Parker rotated goalies every year until Fields, hell when Dipietro was here he split time evenly with Jason Tapp, something must have changed in his philosophy in the early '00s.

limey
02-15-2011, 12:34 PM
Parker rotated goalies every year until Fields, hell when Dipietro was here he split time evenly with Jason Tapp, something must have changed in his philosophy in the early '00s.

It was probably Jason Tapp.

pirate
02-15-2011, 12:56 PM
Going intio the 1998 season BU "was" argubably in the conversation with a couple other schools as the top D1 hockey program in the country, as an overall program (all aspects) as well as success. Since that time 1 appearance in the FF over 14 years (inc. the expected failure this season). The 2009 title was just an aberration lets face it, luck and alot of talent was on their side during the post season. Since that period BC has easily become the top hockey program in the country and I dont even think there is a 2nd school in the conversation. In his own backyard Parker has allowed that to happen, through a multitude of reasons including not recruiting the best "college" players, not getting his team ready to play consistently, not maintaining on and off ice discipline and leadership. Its been almost a total failure by the standards BU had set for themselves or atleast should have set for themselves. Absolutely Nick, BU should expect 7-8 NCAA app. per decade with 2-3 FF's. This is BU's only major sport of consequence this is what they do, if they dont get recognition and publicity here they arent getting any. What big time b'ball or football coach would survive 14 years of relative mediocrity at their college without some sort of buyout being proposed. When Cohen scored the OT winner in 2009 my first though was great, my second thought was we are now stuck with this buffoon of a Coach for another 5 to 8 years. Most on this board love Parker and would love to get close to him at the rink, alot of admiration going on. Sorry guys he is slowly killing the program or atleast putting it a significant notch below the top tier (national) teams. BU is closer to NU as a program then they are to BC right now.

We need to separate respect from confidence going forward...people respect Joe Pa and nobody can take away what he has done but at some point it makes sense to have him exit in some way other than the coroner's stretcher in the middle of the game. Ditto Bowden. Bobby Knight was another interesting situation.

While some can't fathom it, you can be loyal to the person in terms of what they have contributed, you can defend them from moronic detractors but you should also be dispassionate in regard to the future. It's why they invented the gold watch. ;-)

I don't think Joe Pa has earned the right to stay forever any more than I think Parker has. The question becomes how many times does Ahab set to sea before somebody politely suggests he step aside or has to relieve him of command. Be it Iverson, Spinks, Bret Favre, JoePa or Bowden, they all think there is one more trophy out there and they are going to prove they can do it. They certainly aren't going to go out with a sub .500 season, the 8th seed, the Humanitarian Bowl, playing in Turkey etc.

We saw that Wolff couldn't stay forever without producing, take a look at his tenure and what equity he had in the athletics program and then estimate when Parker would get the same treatment; how about never? The only person that takes Parker out is Parker. If Silber were around he might have had the gumption to do something but I don't see anybody else doing the deed.

The big question is who would be better than him? It is a school with little athletic identity, you take out JP and who has the draw to get kids to come there? Quinn, Cahoon, the ghost of Herb Brooks? I don't know the answer to that but I'd hold off on digging the grave until I had a **** good answer to that question and an understanding if it was to be a peaceful transition or a coup. If it is the latter, it could spell a real downturn unless the new guy is a real surprise. In college football a new hotshot shows up every year, I don't see that in hockey.

theprofromdover
02-15-2011, 12:58 PM
Going intio the 1998 season BU "was" argubably in the conversation with a couple other schools as the top D1 hockey program in the country, as an overall program (all aspects) as well as success. Since that time 1 appearance in the FF over 14 years (inc. the expected failure this season). The 2009 title was just an aberration lets face it, luck and alot of talent was on their side during the post season. Since that period BC has easily become the top hockey program in the country and I dont even think there is a 2nd school in the conversation. In his own backyard Parker has allowed that to happen, through a multitude of reasons including not recruiting the best "college" players, not getting his team ready to play consistently, not maintaining on and off ice discipline and leadership. Its been almost a total failure by the standards BU had set for themselves or atleast should have set for themselves. Absolutely Nick, BU should expect 7-8 NCAA app. per decade with 2-3 FF's. This is BU's only major sport of consequence this is what they do, if they dont get recognition and publicity here they arent getting any. What big time b'ball or football coach would survive 14 years of relative mediocrity at their college without some sort of buyout being proposed. When Cohen scored the OT winner in 2009 my first though was great, my second thought was we are now stuck with this buffoon of a Coach for another 5 to 8 years. Most on this board love Parker and would love to get close to him at the rink, alot of admiration going on. Sorry guys he is slowly killing the program or atleast putting it a significant notch below the top tier (national) teams. BU is closer to NU as a program then they are to BC right now.

Sad, but true. Props to Jofa.

Bigus Paulus
02-15-2011, 01:05 PM
As a BU fan, alum, and season ticket holder here's a list of my yearly expectations:

First the ones that are easy to measure:

1.) The team should get 20+ wins
2.) To finish in the top 4 of HE to earn home ice in the HE quarters
3.) To make the NCAAs at least 5 times a decade

Is this too much to expect?

I just want to add a bit of perspective to the first 3 points mentioned. While the above is nice, it's NC's that rule the day when all is said and done. I'll use Michigan as an example as their stats easily exceed your expectations for a BU club.

In the past 20 years Michigan under Red's regime has accomplished the following.

20 straight 20+ win campaigns
20 straight NCAA appearances
10 Frozen Four appearances
10 30+ win seasons including 7/8 years in the 90's
588 wins for an average of 29 wins a season:eek:
.725 win %

However, the one glaring hole in their resume are National Championships. During this run of success they've have only 2 NCs to show for it. The same number as BU. I would be almost certain they would trade in a few of those 30 win seasons for more NCs.

While racking up wins and NCAA appearances are nice it still is meaningless if you don't have the occasional NC to show for it.

Boston22
02-15-2011, 01:38 PM
Going intio the 1998 season BU "was" argubably in the conversation with a couple other schools as the top D1 hockey program in the country, as an overall program (all aspects) as well as success. Since that time 1 appearance in the FF over 14 years (inc. the expected failure this season). The 2009 title was just an aberration lets face it, luck and alot of talent was on their side during the post season. Since that period BC has easily become the top hockey program in the country and I dont even think there is a 2nd school in the conversation. In his own backyard Parker has allowed that to happen, through a multitude of reasons including not recruiting the best "college" players, not getting his team ready to play consistently, not maintaining on and off ice discipline and leadership. Its been almost a total failure by the standards BU had set for themselves or atleast should have set for themselves. Absolutely Nick, BU should expect 7-8 NCAA app. per decade with 2-3 FF's. This is BU's only major sport of consequence this is what they do, if they dont get recognition and publicity here they arent getting any. What big time b'ball or football coach would survive 14 years of relative mediocrity at their college without some sort of buyout being proposed. When Cohen scored the OT winner in 2009 my first though was great, my second thought was we are now stuck with this buffoon of a Coach for another 5 to 8 years. Most on this board love Parker and would love to get close to him at the rink, alot of admiration going on. Sorry guys he is slowly killing the program or atleast putting it a significant notch below the top tier (national) teams. BU is closer to NU as a program then they are to BC right now.

Jofa, I agree with pretty much everything you said. I think BU actually has a chance to do something in the coming years, but that is largely due to the fact of the recuits they landed within one year of winning in April of 2009-- Sahir Gill, Adam Clendening, Robert Polesello, Cason Hohmann, Alexx Privitera and Matt Grzelczyk.

If they hadn't won in 2009, would all those guys have jumped aboard? Who knows?

slurpees
02-15-2011, 02:32 PM
Let's be careful not to lose sight of the fact that this team is very young and very inexperienced by and large. That certainly doesn't excuse a pitiful performance yesterday against a team we should've been able to beat with our hands tied behind our backs, but young teams across the board are notorious for being sporadic. If it weren't for a couple of bounces here and there, the '08 team could've easily lost to a bad NU team in the consolation game. I think we all got a little bit of glitter in our eyes in the first month or two of the season, when we really didn't accomplish more than two good wins early on, then beating a bunch of teams we clearly were better than. There have been some solid performances throughout, the two UNH wins and the loss last Monday come to mind, and some woefully bad performances, last night, the Brown loss, etc. That's the mark of a young, sporadic team. The good thing about youth is there's opportunity for them to get it together. They have not mathematically dug themselves a hole they cannot dig out of without an autobid. Heck, I believe we can technically clinch home ice this weekend if things fall right. Unlikely, but possible. Let's not get overly caught up in some comments a few minutes after a disheartening loss and look at everything in a vacuum. One week ago today, I'd bet if you asked most people on here if given the choice to see the performance against BC last Monday every night for the rest of the season, would you take it, most if not all would say yes, and be happy about it. This isn't a Frozen Four caliber team this season, but this is a young, raw, talented group. Just because we had a woefully bad game yesterday isn't isn't a sign that the program is in disarray. Was the program in disarray last Monday when this young team put just about everything they had on the ice against a great team, the odds-on national title favorite, and were a bounce here or there away from beating them? Changes need to be made, the power play is terrible and a huge crutch. Some guys may be having difficulties in certain parts of their games, but outside of last night, I haven't seen much in the way of effort problems for quite some time. The changes are specific and isolated, I'm not seeing them as institutional.

Jofa
02-15-2011, 02:47 PM
The big question is who would be better than him? It is a school with little athletic identity, you take out JP and who has the draw to get kids to come there? Quinn, Cahoon, the ghost of Herb Brooks? I don't know the answer to that but I'd hold off on digging the grave until I had a **** good answer to that question and an understanding if it was to be a peaceful transition or a coup. If it is the latter, it could spell a real downturn unless the new guy is a real surprise. In college football a new hotshot shows up every year, I don't see that in hockey.

Short list has Quinn and Sullivan on it. Not Cahoon. Don Sweeney intriques me though he hasnt coached previously. Sneedon, Jeff Jackson.

Jofa
02-15-2011, 02:55 PM
Let's be careful not to lose sight of the fact that this team is very young and very inexperienced by and large. .

OK this team is young then there was last year where they werent really that young and had a strong veteran d along with a sniper like Bonnino. Then in 08 you had an extremely veteran and talented team albeit with questionable goaltending. All 3 of these years they have missed or will be missing the NCAA's. You certainly can say that 08 and 10 underachieved. BU's losing with alot of different makeup's so I am not giving Parker a pass because their young.

Jacques Joubert
02-15-2011, 03:03 PM
OK this team is young then there was last year where they werent really that young and had a strong veteran d along with a sniper like Bonnino. Then in 08 you had an extremely veteran and talented team albeit with questionable goaltending. All 3 of these years they have missed or will be missing the NCAA's. You certainly can say that 08 and 10 underachieved. BU's losing with alot of different makeup's so I am not giving Parker a pass because their young.

08 Was a Bummer.

buoldtimer
02-15-2011, 03:07 PM
Short list has Quinn and Sullivan on it. Not Cahoon. Don Sweeney intriques me though he hasnt coached previously. Sneedon, Jeff Jackson.

I'm fairly certain that I've read / heard JP say within the last couple of years, that the next coach will be a BU guy. If I'm wrong, if I'm the only one who observed this comment, please state otherwise.