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CommAvHusky
02-14-2011, 10:33 AM
The last I remember was CAH doing it about 6 years or so ago. And, iirc, they didn't use a formula, just what they thought it should be.

When I did it, it was some formula and some gut instinct. Since I did this five years ago, it is time for an update. Good Luck to you.

Rhett
02-14-2011, 12:22 PM
This should be named "The Greatest Programs of All-Time Who Happen to Still Sponsor Varsity Ice Hockey Programs in 2011: #1-#58". Or "tGPoATWHtSSVIHP"... whatever.

I'd like to see how the defunct programs would have fared in your fomula. Since making the NCAA tourney since to earn a big scoring bump, I imagine Wayne State would have wound up ahead of ahead of the programs who have yet to dance. Since defeating former National Champions seems to be worth something in your rankings, I'd like to see how teams who used to play in major conferences, like Penn, Kent State, and Illinois-Chicago would have fared with their many opportunities. Is there a bonus for winning your conference, even if it dodn't result in an autobid? If so, Saint Louis's early domination of the pre-Big 4 CCHA could have earned some major points. It would be interesting to see if their years of absence has allowed AIC to surpass Fairfield and Iona. I'd like to see a list with Findlay in dead last.

Interesting stuff though... I'd like to know more about the methodology after the countdown concludes.

Sean Pickett
02-14-2011, 12:49 PM
This should be named "The Greatest Programs of All-Time Who Happen to Still Sponsor Varsity Ice Hockey Programs in 2011: #1-#58"...I'd like to see how the defunct programs would have fared in your fomula.Yes, if this this is to truly be an all-time list you need to include all teams that played DI hockey. Of course it might get messy with teams that only played pre-divisions, like Gonzaga, USC, Illinios, Marquette, etc., or teams now DIII, like Middlebury and Colby.

Sean

Osorojo
02-14-2011, 01:09 PM
Follow the money. The most successful college hockey programs are the ones that received the most money. {BTW: This is the essence of capitalism.] If you don't believe it check and see which college hockey programs have received the largest infusions of capital.
College hockey isn't in Kansas anymore, not since the NCAA finessed amateur athletics.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-14-2011, 01:11 PM
When I did it, it was some formula and some gut instinct. Since I did this five years ago, it is time for an update. Good Luck to you.

Thanks for the clarification, and for the best wishes. I'm sure I'll encounter plenty of upset people from most fanbases...minus one.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-14-2011, 01:18 PM
Yes, if this this is to truly be an all-time list you need to include all teams that played DI hockey. Of course it might get messy with teams that only played pre-divisions, like Gonzaga, USC, Illinios, Marquette, etc., or teams now DIII, like Middlebury and Colby.

Sean

Honestly, if I could find Media Guides from after their last season, I could include them in the rankings. If you can find digital copies (or physical copies) of each of the teams, I'll gladly go through them and get the data I need to put them in the formula. I guess we would first need a list of all the defunct/no longer d-1 programs and then get the information/media guides. My guess is that it would be terribly difficult to 1) come up with a list of every program and then 2) find the media guides/information that included all the data that we would need.

Again though, if you can find it, let me know, and I'll put in the work to include them in the formula. For now, I'm going to continue with just the current programs.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-14-2011, 01:24 PM
This should be named "The Greatest Programs of All-Time Who Happen to Still Sponsor Varsity Ice Hockey Programs in 2011: #1-#58". Or "tGPoATWHtSSVIHP"... whatever.

I'd like to see how the defunct programs would have fared in your fomula. Since making the NCAA tourney since to earn a big scoring bump, I imagine Wayne State would have wound up ahead of ahead of the programs who have yet to dance. Since defeating former National Champions seems to be worth something in your rankings, I'd like to see how teams who used to play in major conferences, like Penn, Kent State, and Illinois-Chicago would have fared with their many opportunities. Is there a bonus for winning your conference, even if it dodn't result in an autobid? If so, Saint Louis's early domination of the pre-Big 4 CCHA could have earned some major points. It would be interesting to see if their years of absence has allowed AIC to surpass Fairfield and Iona. I'd like to see a list with Findlay in dead last.

Interesting stuff though... I'd like to know more about the methodology after the countdown concludes.

I'll definitely go over the methodology after the countdown concludes. As for conference titles, there is a part of the formula that accounts for that.

Sean Pickett
02-14-2011, 02:33 PM
Honestly, if I could find Media Guides from after their last season, I could include them in the rankings. If you can find digital copies (or physical copies) of each of the teams, I'll gladly go through them and get the data I need to put them in the formula. I guess we would first need a list of all the defunct/no longer d-1 programs and then get the information/media guides. My guess is that it would be terribly difficult to 1) come up with a list of every program and then 2) find the media guides/information that included all the data that we would need.

Again though, if you can find it, let me know, and I'll put in the work to include them in the formula. For now, I'm going to continue with just the current programs.Here is a list of defunct Division I programs I culled from a list over on the <a href=http://www.augenblick.org/chha/>College Hockey Historical Archives</a> website.

Fairfield (Fairfield, Connecticut)
Findlay (Findlay, Ohio)
Illinois-Chicago (Chicago, Illinois)
Iona (New Rochelle, New York)
Kent State (Kent, Ohio)
Northern Arizona (Flagstaff, Arizona)
Ohio University (Athens, Ohio)
Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
St. Louis (St. Louis, Missouri)
U.S. International (San Diego, California)
Wayne State (Detroit, Michigan)

I'll will see what information I can find about them, but if anyone else happens to have the information available please speak up and send it to Fighting Sioux 23.

Sean

Ralph Baer
02-14-2011, 02:39 PM
Here is a list of defunct Division I programs I culled from a list over on the <a href=http://www.augenblick.org/chha/>College Hockey Historical Archives</a> website.

Fairfield (Fairfield, Connecticut)
Findlay (Findlay, Ohio)
Illinois-Chicago (Chicago, Illinois)
Iona (New Rochelle, New York)
Kent State (Kent, Ohio)
Northern Arizona (Flagstaff, Arizona)
Ohio University (Athens, Ohio)
Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
St. Louis (St. Louis, Missouri)
U.S. International (San Diego, California)
Wayne State (Detroit, Michigan)

I'll will see what information I can find about them, but if anyone else happens to have the information available please speak up and send it to Fighting Sioux 23.

Sean

What about all of the ECAC schools who were eligible for the playoffs the first three years before ECAC-II broke off?. http://www.augenblick.org/chha/ecac_stn.html Colby even made the playoffs the first year and won their first-round game against RPI. :o

Sean Pickett
02-14-2011, 02:52 PM
What about all of the ECAC schools who were eligible for the playoffs the first three years before ECAC-II broke off?. http://www.augenblick.org/chha/ecac_stn.html Colby even made the playoffs the first year and won their first-round game against RPI. :oI mentioned the pre-division teams in my original post, but I thought I would start with the 'easier' known DI programs.

Sean

Priceless
02-14-2011, 02:54 PM
Honestly, if I could find Media Guides from after their last season, I could include them in the rankings. If you can find digital copies (or physical copies) of each of the teams, I'll gladly go through them and get the data I need to put them in the formula. I guess we would first need a list of all the defunct/no longer d-1 programs and then get the information/media guides. My guess is that it would be terribly difficult to 1) come up with a list of every program and then 2) find the media guides/information that included all the data that we would need.

Again though, if you can find it, let me know, and I'll put in the work to include them in the formula. For now, I'm going to continue with just the current programs.

You can add that to the list this summer if you can get all the data.

Erix_The_Red
02-14-2011, 02:55 PM
Does the formula use success percentages? For example, older programs will naturally have more hardware, but if you do championships/year...

Fighting Sioux 23
02-14-2011, 02:58 PM
You can add that to the list this summer if you can get all the data.

That what I was thinking, although in all likelihood I think it would be at earliest Summer 2012.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-14-2011, 03:03 PM
Does the formula use success percentages? For example, older programs will naturally have more hardware, but if you do championships/year...

Not in that regard. I was debating about using a formula I use for World Cup Soccer, which accounts for success/cup. I eventually decided against doing so. My thought process was that since this is for "all-time", programs with more history should get some sort of advantage. What could easily be done though, is you could take the amount of points a team has, and divide by the number of years that they have played D-1 hockey. Then you could rank by who has the highest points/year.

Erix_The_Red
02-14-2011, 03:05 PM
What could easily be done though, is you could take the amount of points a team has, and divide by the number of years that they have played D-1 hockey. Then you could rank by who has the highest points/year.

Well maybe I'll do just that.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-14-2011, 03:09 PM
http://www.undhockey.net/mack.jpg

Merrimack, to date, has only made 1 NCAA Tournament, advancing to the Quarterfinals of the 1988 Tourney before losing to eventual National Champion LSSU 8-4 in a two game, total goal series (3-4, 5-0). The Warriors are looking to advance further up this list with their performance this year. Merrimack is in line for their 2nd NCAA Tournament bid, and could potentially be a #1 seed. As for now, the Mack comes in at #45.

#45 Merrimack - 3.1402 Points
#46 Massachusetts - 3.0035 Points
#47 Alaska - 2.9892 Points
#48 Nebraska Omaha - 2.9092 Points
#49 Minnesota State - 2.3131 points
#50 Alabama Huntsville - 1.9469 Points
#51 Army - 1.3604 points
#52 Union - 0.6174 points
#53 UConn - 0.1921 Points
#54 Sacred Heart - 0.1703 Points
#55 Bentley - .0279 points
#56 Robert Morris - .0245 points
#57 Canisius - .0205 points
#58 American International - .0061 points

bcfan131
02-14-2011, 03:31 PM
http://www.undhockey.net/umass.jpg

The UMass Minutemen made the most of their one NCAA Tournament appearance in 2007, knocking off #1 seed Clarkson in overtime before falling to Maine in the Quarterfinals. Since joining Hockey East, UMass has struggled, putting up only one 20+ win season (2007). However, they play a quality schedule every season, and if they can put together more 20+ win seasons, I would anticipate them moving up the list.

#46 Massachusetts - 3.0035 Points
#47 Alaska - 2.9892 Points
#48 Nebraska Omaha - 2.9092 Points
#49 Minnesota State - 2.3131 points
#50 Alabama Huntsville - 1.9469 Points
#51 Army - 1.3604 points
#52 Union - 0.6174 points
#53 UConn - 0.1921 Points
#54 Sacred Heart - 0.1703 Points
#55 Bentley - .0279 points
#56 Robert Morris - .0245 points
#57 Canisius - .0205 points
#58 American International - .0061 points

How is UMass behind Merrimack?

jcarter7669
02-14-2011, 03:33 PM
http://www.undhockey.net/mack.jpg

Merrimack, to date, has only made 1 NCAA Tournament, advancing to the Quarterfinals of the 1988 Tourney before losing to eventual National Champion LSSU 8-4 in a two game, total goal series (3-4, 5-0). The Warriors are looking to advance further up this list with their performance this year. Merrimack is in line for their 2nd NCAA Tournament bid, and could potentially be a #1 seed. As for now, the Mack comes in at #45.

#45 Merrimack - 3.1402 Points
#46 Massachusetts - 3.0035 Points
#47 Alaska - 2.9892 Points
#48 Nebraska Omaha - 2.9092 Points
#49 Minnesota State - 2.3131 points
#50 Alabama Huntsville - 1.9469 Points
#51 Army - 1.3604 points
#52 Union - 0.6174 points
#53 UConn - 0.1921 Points
#54 Sacred Heart - 0.1703 Points
#55 Bentley - .0279 points
#56 Robert Morris - .0245 points
#57 Canisius - .0205 points
#58 American International - .0061 points

MC should get bonus points for scouting kids in that other french country.

jcarter7669
02-14-2011, 03:34 PM
How is UMass behind Merrimack?

Their coaches name is TooT. That counts against them.

Driftryder
02-14-2011, 03:34 PM
How is UMass behind Merrimack?

Simple Math