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aparch
02-17-2011, 02:59 PM
I'm not surprised where NMU landed, playing .500 hockey and winning in '91 keeps us continually as a top 20 program. Just like our PWR, we're always close enough, but never good enough for an invite.

Rhett
02-17-2011, 03:31 PM
I didn't want to do actual work

Me niether... that's why my response pointed out errors in general terms... looking up the exact years things happened is FS23's work. ;)

drshoen
02-17-2011, 03:39 PM
Clarkson went undefeated in '55-'56 (23-0-0). As for more of the in depth specifics, you would have to ask someone else, but I believe you are at least somewhat close on the details.

As I understand it the NCAA did not, at that time, only allowed 3 years eligibility for tournament participants. Clarkson had several freshman play throughout the season, but would not have been allowed to play then during the tournament. Rather than go to the tournament without their freshman, Clarkson declined to participate.

My understanding may be a little fuzzy, but I think that's about right.

Puck Swami
02-17-2011, 03:47 PM
As I understand it the NCAA did not, at that time, only allowed 3 years eligibility for tournament participants. Clarkson had several freshman play throughout the season, but would not have been allowed to play then during the tournament. Rather than go to the tournament without their freshman, Clarkson declined to participate.

My understanding may be a little fuzzy, but I think that's about right.

From the Clarkson Web Site:

"Under the guidance of head coach Bill Harrison, the Knights skaters of 1955-56, posted a phenomenal 23-0 record and were Tri-State League Champs. The team was the first Clarkson team to be invited to the NCAA Championships. The Knights, however, refused to go. Clarkson had eight seniors who were four-year varsity players and under NCAA rules were ineligible. The team voted not to go without them and turned down the NCAA bid."

Fighting Sioux 23
02-17-2011, 04:02 PM
http://www.undhockey.net/rpi.jpg

RPI comes in at #16. The Engineers have made 8 trips to the NCAA Tournament, including 5 Frozen Four appearances. Their two most successful runs came in 1954 and 1985. The '85 team being one of the best title teams in history. There has been a bit of a drought for the Engineers, as they haven't made the NCAA Tournament since 1995. That looks to change this year, as RPI has put itself in position to make it back to the NCAA Tournament. If that type of season become a little more common for RPI, perhaps they can move up on this list, but for now, they sit at #16.

#16 Rensselaer - 98.2167 Points
#17 Bowling Green - 79.7674 Points
#18 Northern Michigan - 79.3272 Points
#19 New Hampshire - 77.4096 Points
#20 Minnesota Duluth - 66.5522 Points
#21 St. Lawrence - 64.6435 Points
#22 Providence - 37.9103 Points
#23 Miami - 36.9575 Points
#24 Dartmouth - 35.143 Points
#25 Notre Dame - 33.5788 Points
#26 Yale - 29.1241 Points
#27 Colgate - 27.7915 Points
#28 Northeastern - 24.5696 Points
#29 Brown - 18.3317 Points
#30 Ohio State - 17.0403 Points
#31 Vermont - 15.8285 Points
#32 St. Cloud State - 12.4129 Points
#33 Bemidji State - 11.4454 Points
#34 RIT - 8.1655 Points
#35 Ferris State - 7.8912 Points
#36 UMass Lowell - 7.1081 Points
#37 Niagara - 6.4381 Points
#38 Western Michigan - 5.3974 Points
#39 Princeton - 5.1729 Points
#40 Holy Cross - 4.8647 Points
#41 Alaska-Anchorage - 4.8361 Points
#42 Air Force - 4.1704 Points
#43 Quinnipiac - 3.8994 Points
#44 Mercyhurst - 3.468 Points
#45 Merrimack - 3.1402 Points
#46 Massachusetts - 3.0035 Points
#47 Alaska - 2.9892 Points
#48 Nebraska Omaha - 2.9092 Points
#49 Minnesota State - 2.3131 Points
#50 Alabama Huntsville - 1.9469 Points
#51 Army - 1.3604 Points
#52 Union - 0.6174 Points
#53 UConn - 0.1921 Points
#54 Sacred Heart - 0.1703 Points
#55 Bentley - .0279 Points
#56 Robert Morris - .0245 Points
#57 Canisius - .0205 Points
#58 American International - .0061 Points

FlagDUDE08
02-17-2011, 04:04 PM
http://www.undhockey.net/rpi.jpg

RPI comes in at #16.

That's it?! I know you hurt my feelings... :p

UML
02-17-2011, 04:27 PM
Very interesting. Never heard of this.
From the Clarkson Web Site:

"Under the guidance of head coach Bill Harrison, the Knights skaters of 1955-56, posted a phenomenal 23-0 record and were Tri-State League Champs. The team was the first Clarkson team to be invited to the NCAA Championships. The Knights, however, refused to go. Clarkson had eight seniors who were four-year varsity players and under NCAA rules were ineligible. The team voted not to go without them and turned down the NCAA bid."

AnchorsAway
02-17-2011, 04:29 PM
Love this thread!

Puck Swami
02-17-2011, 04:37 PM
Yeah, but we should be higher then Tech (no offense MTU fans)

I think you should have a deeper look at the history book. Tech's period of excellence in the 60s and 70s was far longer and and deeper than NMU's period of excellence. The three NCAA title banners won by MTU are getting musty to be sure these days, but you simply cannot discount the substantial contribution of MTU to the college game. In the long sweep of the last 60+ years of sanctioned NCAA play, there was a 20 year period where coach MacInnes had built MTU into an elite program in a difficult location, with a limited academic offer and little media coverage -- it's nothing short of amazing.

du78
02-17-2011, 04:42 PM
I think you should have a deeper look at the history book. Tech's period of excellence in the 60s and 70s was far longer and and deeper than NMU's period of excellence. The three NCAA title banners won by MTU are getting musty to be sure these days, but you simply cannot discount the substantial contribution of MTU to the college game. In the long sweep of the last 60+ years of sanctioned NCAA play, there was a 20 year period where coach MacInnes had built MTU into an elite program in a difficult location, with a limited academic offer and little media coverage -- it's nothing short of amazing.

I saw them play DU when they had some great teams. It was interesting watching Murray and MacInnes go against each other with one trying to outfox the other on line match-ups, face-offs, etc. The last line change that the home team has was well used by both of them.

Federal League
02-17-2011, 04:44 PM
Interesting to see RPI (2 national titles) behind Clarkson (none).

pensfan08
02-17-2011, 04:48 PM
I assume based on RPI's ranking that the number of posts by fans on the forum was not taken into account.

TuteScrooge
02-17-2011, 04:51 PM
Interesting to see RPI (2 national titles) ahead of Clarkson (none).

I would argue that this means that RPI is behind Clarkson.

This just goes to show the Obvious Error in the methodology. Everyone KNOWS that there is nothing where RPI is second to Clarkson. :D

Federal League
02-17-2011, 05:00 PM
I would argue that this means that RPI is behind Clarkson.

This just goes to show the Obvious Error in the methodology. Everyone KNOWS that there is nothing where RPI is second to Clarkson. :D

Yeah, I just edited my post. I'm not good with numbers like you engineers. :p

Priceless
02-17-2011, 05:00 PM
Boom!
Feel free to point out errors. Sorry for the formatting

Team-pts-1st year-yrs-pts/yr


RIT 8.1655 2005 5 1.6331
Miami 36.9575 1978 32 1.1549
Bemidji State 11.4454 1999 11 1.0405
New Hampshire 77.4096 1924 86 0.9001
Minnesota Duluth 66.5522 1930 80 0.8319
St. Lawrence 64.6435 1925 85 0.7605
St. Cloud State 12.4129 1987 23 0.5397
Niagara 6.4381 1996 14 0.4599
Providence 37.9103 1926 84 0.4513
Vermont 15.8285 1974 36 0.4397
Ohio State 17.0403 1963 47 0.3626
Quinnipiac 3.8994 1999 11 0.3545
Mercyhurst 3.4680 2000 10 0.3468
Notre Dame 33.5788 1912 98 0.3426
Dartmouth 35.1430 1905 105 0.3347
Northeastern 24.5696 1929 81 0.3033
Colgate 27.7915 1915 95 0.2925
UMass Lowell 7.1081 1984 26 0.2734
Ferris State 7.8912 1979 31 0.2546
Yale 29.1241 1895 115 0.2533
Nebraska Omaha 2.9092 1997 13 0.2238
Massachusetts 3.0035 1993 17 0.1767
Alabama Huntsville 1.9469 1998 12 0.1622
Brown 18.3317 1897 113 0.1622
Alaska Anchorage 4.8361 1979 31 0.1560
Western Michigan 5.3974 1975 35 0.1542
Merrimack 3.1402 1984 26 0.1208
Alaska 2.9892 1985 25 0.1196
Holy Cross 4.8647 1966 44 0.1106
Air Force 4.1704 1968 42 0.0993
Minnesota State 2.3131 1969 41 0.0564
Princeton 5.1729 1900 110 0.0470
Union 0.6174 1991 19 0.0325
UConn 0.1921 1998 12 0.0160
Army 1.3604 1903 107 0.0127
Sacred Heart 0.1703 1993 17 0.0100
Robert Morris 0.0245 2004 6 0.0041
Bentley 0.0279 1999 11 0.0025
Canisius 0.0205 1998 12 0.0017
American International 0.0061 1948 62 null


Try this

Fighting Sioux 23
02-17-2011, 05:23 PM
http://www.undhockey.net/harvard.jpg

Harvard comes in at #15. Harvard has 21 NCAA Tournament appearances (t-8th), along with 12 Frozen Fours (t-7th). Their dream season was their 1988-1989 campaign which saw the Crimson advance to the National Championship and play Minnesota in St. Paul. Harvard won in overtime to capture its only title to date. Harvard has been consistent as well. They have an NCAA appearance in every decade, except the 1940s. The last few years have not been kind to Harvard, and if that continue you can expect Harvard to slide down this list. For now, they are a top 15 team of All-Time.

#15 Harvard - 118.8879 Points
#16 Rensselaer - 98.2167 Points
#17 Bowling Green - 79.7674 Points
#18 Northern Michigan - 79.3272 Points
#19 New Hampshire - 77.4096 Points
#20 Minnesota Duluth - 66.5522 Points
#21 St. Lawrence - 64.6435 Points
#22 Providence - 37.9103 Points
#23 Miami - 36.9575 Points
#24 Dartmouth - 35.143 Points
#25 Notre Dame - 33.5788 Points
#26 Yale - 29.1241 Points
#27 Colgate - 27.7915 Points
#28 Northeastern - 24.5696 Points
#29 Brown - 18.3317 Points
#30 Ohio State - 17.0403 Points
#31 Vermont - 15.8285 Points
#32 St. Cloud State - 12.4129 Points
#33 Bemidji State - 11.4454 Points
#34 RIT - 8.1655 Points
#35 Ferris State - 7.8912 Points
#36 UMass Lowell - 7.1081 Points
#37 Niagara - 6.4381 Points
#38 Western Michigan - 5.3974 Points
#39 Princeton - 5.1729 Points
#40 Holy Cross - 4.8647 Points
#41 Alaska-Anchorage - 4.8361 Points
#42 Air Force - 4.1704 Points
#43 Quinnipiac - 3.8994 Points
#44 Mercyhurst - 3.468 Points
#45 Merrimack - 3.1402 Points
#46 Massachusetts - 3.0035 Points
#47 Alaska - 2.9892 Points
#48 Nebraska Omaha - 2.9092 Points
#49 Minnesota State - 2.3131 Points
#50 Alabama Huntsville - 1.9469 Points
#51 Army - 1.3604 Points
#52 Union - 0.6174 Points
#53 UConn - 0.1921 Points
#54 Sacred Heart - 0.1703 Points
#55 Bentley - .0279 Points
#56 Robert Morris - .0245 Points
#57 Canisius - .0205 Points
#58 American International - .0061 Points

ScoobyDoo
02-17-2011, 05:31 PM
Interesting to see RPI (2 national titles) behind Clarkson (none).

Yeah. That seems counter intuitive. Clarkson does have a long history. This might mean that the formula is more balanced than I thought.

mookie1995
02-17-2011, 05:44 PM
the long-winded explanation.


From the Clarkson Web Site:

"Under the guidance of head coach Bill Harrison, the Knights skaters of 1955-56, posted a phenomenal 23-0 record and were Tri-State League Champs. The team was the first Clarkson team to be invited to the NCAA Championships. The Knights, however, refused to go. Clarkson had eight seniors who were four-year varsity players and under NCAA rules were ineligible. The team voted not to go without them and turned down the NCAA bid."

the time-saving explanation.


From the Clarkson Web Site:

"Cheated."

hockeyenthusiast
02-17-2011, 05:54 PM
I also don't think it hurts that at least up to 2 years ago Clarkson had the best all-time winning percentage in Division I. I must admit though that I'm surprised to see them ahead of Harvard. It'd be even more surprising to see them ahead of Cornell.

French Rage
02-17-2011, 05:58 PM
Good, beats that last list that had Harvard ahead of Cornell.