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View Full Version : RPI 2010-2011 IV: We Still Have Allen York. Sorry, Everyone!



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AspyDad
02-14-2011, 09:40 AM
Sure looks that way on the replay-but where was everyone from RPI? There was one back against 3 Colgate players and you just cannot do that in OT. Where was the other defenseman?

With all due respect DrD the location of the RPI players does not matter if the play was offside.

AspyDad
02-14-2011, 09:41 AM
Kudos to Tom and GR for having the courage to run this story. Great work gentlemen. Hard hitting and groundbreaking.

FlagDUDE08
02-14-2011, 10:02 AM
Kudos to Tom and GR for having the courage to run this story. Great work gentlemen. Hard hitting and groundbreaking.

I'm glad the story is run, however unless there are other schools that are seeing this issue and are also willing to speak out, I fear the issue may not go anywhere and instead be dismissed as us shifting the blame to others because of a disbelief towards losing games. Obviously some of the Union-based press (at least from the standpoint of their radio announcers) was in agreement with us on the November 12th incident, and were willing to voice this opinion on Mr. Wyland's weekly college hockey segment of his radio show. I know there have been times where other teams felt they have been hosed by officials, but I don't follow other press well enough to know if there was anything brought to that attention. The RPI/Cornell playoff series from 2009 comes to mind where there was press involved, and included suspension of a coach.

AspyDad
02-14-2011, 10:15 AM
This little nugget I found from the Sporting News from 94 that polled players on the referees. Yes, Paul Stewart made the list as one of the worst. Hey Paul stop throwing around your street cred when your peers weren't too high on your performance. Nobody likes a bully.

"We are still waiting to see which players will be in the finals, but you can bet that referee Andy van Hellemond will be there for the most important games. He is the Wayne Gretzky of NHL referee. No one else is close. We know because we took a poll of players, coaches and general managers.

Eleven of the 20 people polled named vanHellemond the best refere. Kerry Fraser got two votes and Rob Shick and Terry Gregson got one vote each.

The other five people polled said, "They're all bad."

Ron Hoggarth got 10 votes as the league's worst referee. Denis Morel received five votes and Paul Stewart and Richard Trottier got two each. One said,"They're bad."

Source http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_n22_v217/ai_15278647/

burgie12
02-14-2011, 10:18 AM
Where was the other defenseman?
It was another JFK mistake, actually. He pinched on the blue line to keep the puck in. He was on the North-side boards, so I didn't get a good look at the play, but to me, it looked like a situation where if he kept the puck in, then it was a great pinch, but if he missed it, then it was a terrible decision. Unfortunately, it was the latter.

AspyDad
02-14-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm glad the story is run, however unless there are other schools that are seeing this issue and are also willing to speak out, I fear the issue may not go anywhere and instead be dismissed as us shifting the blame to others because of a disbelief towards losing games. Obviously some of the Union-based press (at least from the standpoint of their radio announcers) was in agreement with us on the November 12th incident, and were willing to voice this opinion on Mr. Wyland's weekly college hockey segment of his radio show. I know there have been times where other teams felt they have been hosed by officials, but I don't follow other press well enough to know if there was anything brought to that attention. The RPI/Cornell playoff series from 2009 comes to mind where there was press involved, and included suspension of a coach.

We're not letting this go away!!!! shagwell@ecac.com

rvd5star69
02-14-2011, 10:26 AM
I think the league should strongly consider giving teams 1 point for OT Loss.
Paul Stewart should be penalized somehow... not sure what
- jfk is fine.... 100 %
- we havent been 100 % healthy since November.
- with bergin and york we are just a different team
- i hope one bad weekend doesnt cost us AC and NCAA bid :(

cornell plays dartmouth this weekend who shall we root for?

FlagDUDE08
02-14-2011, 10:29 AM
I agree with that. SA is not going to win this or most any league battle on his own. As far as leaving for another league, I suspect that HEA option has closed and going to the AHA shouldn't be considered for one second. One thing that could happen, and would be worth watching, although it is probably impractical, is that if the BTHC causes the CCHA to explode, the 4 Liberty League teams, with or without Colgate, might consider alligning with some of the remnants, namely those in Ohio.

The HEA option MAY open up if there is a 12th team willing to join, as they have noted several times they'd love to go to 12 teams and have a schedule similar to the ECAC non-ivies. Also, remember that HEA has a 5,000 capacity minimum (there were a few schools grandfathered, though). We would have to allow standing room along the ends to get back up to that number.

Jasma
02-14-2011, 10:39 AM
That's good. That means that he has a wide range of very relevant experience to base his report on, even if he didn't cover the Olympics. :)

Very interesting story. I like Paul Stewart and thought that his appointment as head of officials by the ECAC would bring some credibility and some improvement in the consistency if not the overall quality. That has not happened. It appears that Stewart is mainly an apologist for the officials; at least in public. We don�t know what goes on behind closed doors after games. There may be reprimands and reassignments and demotions, but those are never made public and that�s okay. There are actions and patterns such as pulling officials from certain assignments that, if taken, could provide some insight. For instance, why was Bryan Hicks allowed to work several more RPI games after the incident at Union. His latest, the Harvard game was a disgrace. Harvard had something like a 9-1 power play advantage in a pretty tame game.

Mr. Stewart�s public defense of his referees after the RPI-Cornell game is laudable, but in private he should be watching the tape of that game with them and questioning several calls, including the two Brutlag penalties and the Foss call. The call on the hit from behind on Kennedy was also a game misconduct, not a DQ for a vicious hit that clearly injured RPI�s captain and senior leader. The interference call against RPI on the play where Merriam was decked may have been justified, but I have not seen the replay.

Two points need to be made:
1. These two referees are two of the better officials in the league, but there were certainly some strange calls in this game.
2. The officials did not cost RPI the game.
Kotyra and Feola usually do a pretty good job, but not that night. There is also clearly a double standard in this league. The Cornell coach, much like Bill Cleary when he was at Harvard, can whine and complain and then the officials will seemingly bend over backwards to get him off their backs. Other coaches just get more penalties called against their team.

The first interference call against Brutlag looked more like the Cornell player trying to push him offside and Brutlag standing his ground. It should have been an offside call or an interference call against Cornell. The interference call against Brutlag in OT was a disgrace. It happened at center ice. Feola was 100 feet away behind the Cornell goal and screened by Brutlag. The Cornell player brushed Brutlag and took a dive. It should have been a no call, but any penalty should have been against Cornell for diving.

As for leaving the ECAC; I don�t see that happening. I think RPI likes being in the ECAC and likes being associated with the Ivies. If it were simply a hockey decision, RPI would�ve gone to HE years ago. There are other factors involved. I was letting off steam when I said that the AD should use that big stick in any discussion with the league. The only hope for RPI Hockey fans is that when the Big 10 forms a league in 4 or 5 years, that it will create a ripple effect that makes a move by RPI to some other league desirable.

Jasma
02-14-2011, 10:42 AM
I like the fact that they ran the story/opinion piece. I fail to see how it took courage. Hard-hitting and ground breaking? Woodward and Bernstein were hard-hitting and ground breaking. this is good stuff, especially for a fan blog, but let's not go overboard. It ain't the NY Times.

burgie12
02-14-2011, 11:15 AM
I think the league should strongly consider giving teams 1 point for OT Loss.
No. Absolutely not. The fact that different games count for a different number of points is the #1 thing that upsets me about the NHL. I might be fine with a 3-point system where there is a 2-1 point breakdown for games that go to OT, but then you'd be awarding half-points for ties or venturing into shootouts, which is the #2 thing that I upsets me in the NHL. So, in short, no.

GRussinko
02-14-2011, 11:37 AM
Ken Schott reports that Steve Hagwell will be sitting down with Paul Stewart this afternoon to discuss the weekend's events:

http://dailygazette.com/weblogs/schott/2011/feb/14/hagwell-to-speak-with-stewart-over-incident-at-mes/

AspyDad
02-14-2011, 11:44 AM
Ken Schott reports that Steve Hagwell will be sitting down with Paul Stewart this afternoon to discuss the weekend's events:

http://dailygazette.com/weblogs/schott/2011/feb/14/hagwell-to-speak-with-stewart-over-incident-at-mes/

Thanks GR. That's not good enough. process needs to be transparent so that the intergrity of the games are not in question. You cannot have head of officials make biased remarks about a coach and get a slap on the wrist.

AspyDad
02-14-2011, 11:47 AM
What did Ken Schott hear? Hagwell needs to bring him in and confirm what Stewart said about SA and if he confirms Paul should be shown the door. How come Seth Appert didn't get the luxury of getting a sit down before his suspension. More of the same from the ECAC. Ken should come out and confirm what was said about Seth in his blog. Time to man up Ken!!!!

DrDemento
02-14-2011, 11:52 AM
With all due respect DrD the location of the RPI players does not matter if the play was offside.

But giving the other team a 3 on 1 in OT is just inexcusable-defense just cannot take that chance in that instance. Bryce was left hung out to dry. I am not totally sure it was offside, I believe it was-but i am sure that only 1 RPI man was back defending at all.

DrDemento
02-14-2011, 11:57 AM
It was another JFK mistake, actually. He pinched on the blue line to keep the puck in. He was on the North-side boards, so I didn't get a good look at the play, but to me, it looked like a situation where if he kept the puck in, then it was a great pinch, but if he missed it, then it was a terrible decision. Unfortunately, it was the latter.

Didn't see this until after I posted-JFK just had a bad weekend altogether. I wonder if he was 100% physically for the 2 games since it is not like him to be involved in so many goals against.

FlagDUDE08
02-14-2011, 12:02 PM
No. Absolutely not. The fact that different games count for a different number of points is the #1 thing that upsets me about the NHL. I might be fine with a 3-point system where there is a 2-1 point breakdown for games that go to OT, but then you'd be awarding half-points for ties or venturing into shootouts, which is the #2 thing that I upsets me in the NHL. So, in short, no.

You're absolutely correct. If you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. If they do happen to go to a shootout format, no special considerations for making it there. One point if you win, zero points if you don't.

FlagDUDE08
02-14-2011, 12:21 PM
Thanks GR. That's not good enough. process needs to be transparent so that the intergrity of the games are not in question. You cannot have head of officials make biased remarks about a coach and get a slap on the wrist.

What do you expect for them to do? Have the talk be center ice at the TUC for 15,000 to see?! I think this is a step in the right direction that there will actually be a discussion about this (assuming that there isn't already regular correspondence). Granted we don't know if Hagwell will sack Stewart, buy him a beer at Albany Pump, or something else. Like any other workplace, there's a process that needs to be followed. Will there be a follow-up statement? Probably only if termination of employment is involved, and even then that may not happen.

LTsatch
02-14-2011, 12:29 PM
I'm gonna put my turnout gear on for this post:D

Do you guys think that maybe the mob mentality at some of these games may be getting to the officials?

The chanting of an officials name for any seemingly bad call followed by "sucks", might be getting a little old and your team may be paying the price.

I am sure Appert's outspoken views have alot to do with it as well. I just don't think that publicly picking a fight with the league and the officials will help your team at this point in the season, it will most likely hurt.

I agree that Mr. Stewart's actions were unprofessional and he should be taken to task for his outburst. Unfortunately, I believe the ECAC will circle the wagons and RPI will be the ones on the outside shooting in.

Lucky13L
02-14-2011, 12:33 PM
After attending the weekend's games again last place Colgate and the Cornell varsity diving team, I'd like to add my opinion to those already posted. First of all, both of these games are added to the list of "ones that got away." It was inexcusable to lose Friday night. Colgate played harder but even in doing so were less than impressive. RPI looked hungover. Period. Saturday was a different story. RPI played much better but let many opportunities to score and even put the game away, go by the wayside. That said, the officiating was horrendous Saturday, and once again the obvious bias against RPI (particularly Seth Appert) is a topic of discussion. I was first made aware of this bias a few years ago in a conversation with someone who cited a person in the NHL ranks as knowing about what was going on.

Perhaps now that there is so much more evidence, and witnessed by so many, something will finally be done about it. Perhaps. I'm not holding my breath. The officiating is horrendous even without any bias. Paul Stewart is unstable with an ego beyond belief. What about his experience as a referee is that impressive? It's not like he's been out there saving lives...more likely he has put lives in danger.;)

The league needs to recognize something - that RPI is one of its bread and butter teams with one of the largest and most loyal fan bases, surpassed possibly only by Cornell. I would argue that in bad times RPI would surpass Cornell because they didn't draw nearly as well before diving coach Schafer took the helm. But both teams' fans, along with Clarkson (not so much lately) travel well. Back in the day when Hockey East was forming and RPI had the chance to jump ship, I was opposed to the idea. If asked now, I would say go for it. Unfortunately, I think that ship has sailed. But should RPI leave the ECAC at some point, it would be very bad for the ECAC.

The ECAC is as strong top to bottom as ever, and the league should do everything possible to continue that trend. A good first step would be to get rid of nutcase Paul Stewart!