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du78
12-22-2010, 09:43 AM
Changing course here for a bit........

Jay Z and Drew S. made the USA WJC final roster this morning.

Dmann
12-22-2010, 10:33 AM
Changing course here for a bit........

Jay Z and Drew S. made the USA WJC final roster this morning.

No surprise here!! God I hope they stick around a couple more years!!

vizoroo
12-22-2010, 10:50 AM
Changing course here for a bit........

Jay Z and Drew S. made the USA WJC final roster this morning.


No surprise here!! God I hope they stick around a couple more years!!

Congrats to Shore and Zucker!

Now can we worry about who brings the scoring when we play Northern Michigan?:eek:

Puck Swami
12-22-2010, 11:38 AM
Lots of good points made by everyone as usual.

Lets just assume for a second that the season ended today. The NCAA Tournament would look something like this.

East Regional (Bridgeport, Connecticut)
1 Yale vs 16 Robert Morris
8 Notre Dame vs 9 RPI

Mid-West Regional (Green Bay, Wisconsin)
2 Minnesota-Duluth vs 15 Alaska
7 Nebraska-Omaha vs 10 Miami

Northeast Regional (Manchester, New Hampshire)
4 New Hampshire vs 14 Union
5 Boston College vs 11 Michigan

West Regional (St. Louis, Missouri)
3 North Dakota vs 13 Maine
6 Denver vs 12 Boston University

So if I'm to understand DU's position, if DU doesn't beat Boston University, Gwoz doesn't deserve a restructured contract. Second place in the WCHA, Jesse Martin out for the season, Beau Bennett currently injured, weakness at the center position and a team loaded with Freshmen and Sophomores. Not to mention that there will be less that 50 DU fans in St. Louis.

To me DU owes Gwozdecky not for what he can do for the school in the future, but in large part for what he has done for the school in the past. Like the current Derek Jeter vs. Yankees contract saga, Gwoz needs to be paid for past performance and be given a contract that will see out his days at DU.

Gwozdecky orchestrated the biggest moment in DU athletics on April 10, 2004. DU's 1-0 victory over Maine. That seminal moment changed the university, the athletic department and the hockey program forever. Just pay the man.

I think DU sees it differently than we hockey fans do. They think they already paid Gwoz big for the NCs in the form of his current contract. They have never given out big sunset thanks-for-all-you've done contracts, even to Murray Armstrong. I'd love it if DU paid Gwoz too as a Jeter-esque lifetime achievement award contract, but that's not what DU does. They don't have Yankee money and that's just not how they think. They aren't the only ones. Don Lucia won a couple of NCAA Titles with Gophers in this decade, but no one is locking him up for a long-term deal. Granted Gwoz has had far less slippage in his program than Minnesota has seen, but it still illustrates the kind of thinking that today's athletic depts tend to pay big when they sign you, and when you win titles. But you don't see as many let's-keep-you-here deals if you aren't consistently winning NCAA games.

If DU hockey fans ruled the roost, Gwoz would have a lifetime deal by now, Ron Grahame would be athletic director, and there probably wouldn't be a whole lot of resources going into basketball. But that's not the strategy that DU is following. Hockey fans need to remember that Dan Ritchie's vision in taking the athletic dept to D-I 10-12 years ago was about broad based excellence in D-I sports, rather than just hockey excellence and just fielding a few other sports. Dianne Murphy and Peg Bradley Doppes were hired to bring DU up to a winning D-I program that wins in all sports they play, and for the most part, they've done that. In just 12 years, DU is the already the best D-I AAA (non-football) athletic dept in America. Most DU teams are nationally relevant NCAA tourney level sports programs, the department has a 3.2 GPA, a 80-90% graduation rate and the kids mostly stay out of trouble and represent DU very well. Basketball success is the next level of success that DU is trying to conquer. Will they get there? Who knows. Given how well all almost the other DU sports have done, I think they have a shot at it, but it's a tall order that will probably take another 5-10 years, given how many other schools are chasing the same dream...

Gwoz is a special coach, certainly. He deserves special treatment, and were I DU, I would pay him too. But I certainly understand why DU is not bellying up to the bar as fast as we'd like them to. We look at DU through a hockey-first lens. They are looking at DU from a multi-sport mandate lens.

dggoddard
12-22-2010, 11:57 AM
Word out of No Dak is DU lost out on Rocco Grimaldi because he was concerned of Gwoz leaving and DU's committtment to hockey. Rocco was cut by Team USA this morning, so clearly he's no Jason Zucker who made the team last year as a 17 year old. :)

Isn't a little hypocritical of the DU Athletic Department to run around spouting about Athletes GPAs and all the "student athlete" babble and then holding up Gwoz's contract because of lack of NCAA tournament victories?

The most impressive thing about DU's rise up the recruiting rankings has been the GPAs of the hockey players they are bringing in.

rpihockeyrock
12-22-2010, 11:58 AM
I think DU sees it differently than we hockey fans do. They think they already paid Gwoz big for the NCs in the form of his current contract. They have never given out big sunset thanks-for-all-you've done contracts, even to Murray Armstrong. I'd love it if DU paid Gwoz too as a Jeter-esque lifetime achievement award contract, but that's not what DU does. They don't have Yankee money and that's just not how they think. They aren't the only ones. Don Lucia won a couple of NCAA Titles with Gophers in this decade, but no one is locking him up for a long-term deal. Granted Gwoz has had far less slippage in his program than Minnesota has seen, but it still illustrates the kind of thinking that today's athletic depts tend to pay big when they sign you, and when you win titles. But you don't see as many let's-keep-you-here deals if you aren't consistently winning NCAA games.


If DU hockey fans ruled the roost, Gwoz would have a lifetime deal by now, Ron Grahame would be athletic director, and there probably wouldn't be a whole lot of resources going into basketball. But that's not the strategy that DU is following. Hockey fans need to remember that Dan Ritchie's vision in taking the athletic dept to D-I 10-12 years ago was about broad based excellence in D-I sports, rather than just hockey excellence and just fielding a few other sports. Dianne Murphy and Peg Bradley Doppes were hired to bring DU up to a winning D-I program that wins in all sports they play, and for the most part, they've done that. In just 12 years, DU is the already the best D-I AAA (non-football) athletic dept in America. Most DU teams are nationally relevant NCAA tourney level sports programs, the department has a 3.2 GPA, a 80-90% graduation rate and the kids mostly stay out of trouble and represent DU very well. Basketball success is the next level of success that DU is trying to conquer. Will they get there? Who knows. Given how well all almost the other DU sports have done, I think they have a shot at it, but it's a tall order that will probably take another 5-10 years, given how many other schools are chasing the same dream...

Gwoz is a special coach, certainly. He deserves special treatment, and were I DU, I would pay him too. But I certainly understand why DU is not bellying up to the bar as fast as we'd like them to. We look at DU through a hockey-first lens. They are looking at DU from a multi-sport mandate lens.

This post from PS hits the nail on the head. It's bang on and through the eyes of administration. Your last one on "what you would do if you were Gwoz" is a bit much. He does do some of those things. However, he is not Mother Theresa and we do live on earth.
You can see both sides of the argument and unfortunately unless both sides gives a bit, Gwoz is gone. I don't think Gwoz needs Minny type money and I don't think he is asking for the moon. At the same time they vastly overpaid for Bball and Hockey is the sport at DU. I hope this can be resolved.

dggoddard
12-22-2010, 12:12 PM
DU will have to give in, because the are going to look like jackazzes if he leaves.

4four4
12-22-2010, 12:17 PM
Word is if Jason Zucker scores anywhere near thirty goals this year he will be leaving for the Wild at the end of the DU season. The Wild need scoring and believe he is almost ready for the NHL.

dggoddard
12-22-2010, 12:19 PM
Word is if Jason Zucker scores anywhere near thirty goals this year he will be leaving for the Wild at the end of the DU season. The Wild need scoring and believe he is almost ready for the NHL.That would be awesome. Hope he makes it.

4four4
12-22-2010, 12:20 PM
That would be awesome. Hope he makes it.

Not bad for a California kid.

dggoddard
12-22-2010, 12:25 PM
Not bad for a California kid.He's a special player. Not many elite players have his unbelievable compete level on every shift.

brianvf
12-22-2010, 12:35 PM
Rocco was cut by Team USA this morning, so clearly he's no Jason Zucker who made the team last year as a 17 year old. :)

The USA team this year is clearly geared for age/exp compared to last year. They pretty much cut all the draft-eligible players this year...usually they throw a youngster in there for building experience (like they did with Zucker last year).

That said, I would think that Rocco will make more of an impact in college hockey just because he'll be around longer than Zucker. Zucker will jump after a year or two. With Rocco's size, he'll be around for 3 or 4. :)

dggoddard
12-22-2010, 01:17 PM
The USA team this year is clearly geared for age/exp compared to last year. They pretty much cut all the draft-eligible players this year...usually they throw a youngster in there for building experience (like they did with Zucker last year).Not so sure I agree with this. Zucker forced his way onto the team with an incredible camp and worked his way up from the fourth line to the 2nd line. The USA coach said later that they didn't want to take Zucker, but he forced their hand.

As we've seen so far this season, Zucker is a special player.

There are several NHL Mock Drafts that have Rocco going in the first round. Now that he didn't make the US team, that might be a little more difficult.

Puck Swami
12-22-2010, 01:27 PM
This post from PS hits the nail on the head. It's bang on and through the eyes of administration. Your last one on "what you would do if you were Gwoz" is a bit much. He does do some of those things. However, he is not Mother Theresa and we do live on earth.
You can see both sides of the argument and unfortunately unless both sides gives a bit, Gwoz is gone. I don't think Gwoz needs Minny type money and I don't think he is asking for the moon. At the same time they vastly overpaid for Bball and Hockey is the sport at DU. I hope this can be resolved.

I hope it can be resolved too. And he is Mother Teresa to a lot of us. :)

Puck Swami
12-22-2010, 01:27 PM
Not bad for a California kid.

He's more Nevada than California, but same idea.

sfo19
12-22-2010, 02:28 PM
Rocco was cut by Team USA this morning, so clearly he's no Jason Zucker who made the team last year as a 17 year old. :)Isn't a little hypocritical of the DU Athletic Department to run around spouting about Athletes GPAs and all the "student athlete" babble and then holding up Gwoz's contract because of lack of NCAA tournament victories?

The most impressive thing about DU's rise up the recruiting rankings has been the GPAs of the hockey players they are bringing in.

Tyler Seguin didn't make Team Canada as a 17 year old. Is he not up to par with Jason Zucker either?

Rocco and Jason are completely different players and in completely different situations. Last year, Zucker made a team with just 3 returnees, making it easier to force your way onto the team. This year's team has 8, 6 up front. Not a lot of room for new guys up front, as they weren't going to cut any of the returnees. It's unfair to compare situations like that in my opinion. Lots of talented players don't make WJC's as high school seniors.

dggoddard
12-22-2010, 02:45 PM
Tyler Seguin didn't make Team Canada as a 17 year old. Is he not up to par with Jason Zucker either?

Rocco and Jason are completely different players and in completely different situations. Last year, Zucker made a team with just 3 returnees, making it easier to force your way onto the team. This year's team has 8, 6 up front. Not a lot of room for new guys up front, as they weren't going to cut any of the returnees. It's unfair to compare situations like that in my opinion. Lots of talented players don't make WJC's as high school seniors.So what you are saying is that Rocco didn't make the team, but he is a better player than Jason was a year ago?

4four4
12-23-2010, 12:45 AM
He's more Nevada than California, but same idea.

How about a sunshine kid? LOL. ;)

brianvf
12-23-2010, 01:30 AM
As we've seen so far this season, Zucker is a special player.

No doubt about that!


So what you are saying is that Rocco didn't make the team, but he is a better player than Jason was a year ago?

I think he was just saying that they are two different players that are involved with different situations with team selection, not that one of them was/is a better player as a 17yo. :)

Old Pio
12-23-2010, 11:39 AM
Tyler Seguin didn't make Team Canada as a 17 year old. Is he not up to par with Jason Zucker either?

Rocco and Jason are completely different players and in completely different situations. Last year, Zucker made a team with just 3 returnees, making it easier to force your way onto the team. This year's team has 8, 6 up front. Not a lot of room for new guys up front, as they weren't going to cut any of the returnees. It's unfair to compare situations like that in my opinion. Lots of talented players don't make WJC's as high school seniors.

". . .force your way onto the team?" Did Zucker have pictures of the coaching staff making love to farm animals?