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WestCoastSioux
11-13-2010, 11:55 AM
I can only speak of the games I have watched, but it appears to me that the refs are calling 5-minute majors every time a player gets checked hard and falls to the ice. (on at least 1 instance, there was NO penalty even called until the ref saw the player was hurt). I agree that is some cases, the hits are HIGH and there is definite contact to the head, but in many cases it's not.

1) Malone gets a major with game DQ for a hit where the Denver player clearly has his head down which is WHY he was injured. I feel bad that the DU player was injured but it's NOT Malone's fault. "Stick down..head UP!" We learn that in pee-wee hockey!

2) Last nite with the Sioux playing Wisco, there were 2 major's called on UND. Gleason creamed a Badger as he was coming around the net and it was clearly to the shoulder which caused the Badger player to hit the boards very hard..but why is a clean check like that a major? It wasn't from behind. The player was injured because again..he had his head down and when Gleason hit him he spun and hit his head against the boards. I can see a penalty called, but a major? Watch the replay, it was a hard yet clean hit. The other major called was once again a player that had his head down and was hit with shoulder/elbow by the Sioux player. What is a player supposed to do when he's about to check a guy who has his head down at waist level? Players are taught/coached to hit a player, especially when the offensive player has their head down! These would not be called majors and possibly not even a penalty in any other upper leagues.

I understand that the NCAA is trying to crack-down on "dirty" hits, but come on! Let the guys play, and if you take away the ability for players to hit guys who can't keep their heads up this league is going to become softer than it already is! On top of that, this rule is NOT doing the players any favors. If they can get away with having their head down in college and then turn pro and play the same way..they will surely get injured even worse by a hard-hitting pro!

I'm sure there must be some other "non-dirty" hits with other teams/players involved with other NCAA teams. Has anyone else witnessed this? There's always 2 sides to any argument/opinion, so I want to hear how others feel about this.

LET THE INSULTS FLY! BUT HOPEFULLY THERE WILL BE SOME INTELLIGENT POSTS ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

Neil Diamond
11-13-2010, 03:31 PM
I talked to a CCHA coach about this issue last year. He said coaches have stopped trying to figure out what is and isn't a penalty anymore, and instead of risking the possibility of getting a penalty they are simply telling their players to lay off the hitting. The NCAA has watered-down the physical aspect of college hockey so much that hitting is basically a thing of the past. The NCAA found good, hard checks to be a black eye on the sport. Go figure.

burd
11-13-2010, 03:35 PM
I talked to a CCHA coach about this issue last year. He said coaches have stopped trying to figure out what is and isn't a penalty anymore, and instead of risking the possibility of getting a penalty they are simply telling their players to lay off the hitting. The NCAA has watered-down the physical aspect of college hockey so much that hitting is basically a thing of the past. The NCAA found good, hard checks to be a black eye on the sport. Go figure.

Song sung blue--everybody knows one.

komey1
11-13-2010, 03:38 PM
I've seen the opposite. Last night the RIT goalie was run, which caused a bit of a fight and NO 5 minute penaties called at all.

Carter
11-13-2010, 03:39 PM
i talked to a ccha coach about this issue last year. He said coaches have stopped trying to figure out what is and isn't a penalty anymore, and instead of risking the possibility of getting a penalty they are simply telling their players to lay off the hitting. The ncaa has watered-down the physical aspect of college hockey so much that hitting is basically a thing of the past. The ncaa found broken necks to be a black eye on the sport. Go figure.

fyp

Slap Shot
11-13-2010, 03:53 PM
He said coaches have stopped trying to figure out what is and isn't a penalty anymore, and instead of risking the possibility of getting a penalty they are simply telling their players to lay off the hitting.

I seriously doubt that to be true. They may advise their players to watch what they're doing, but to lay off the hitting?

solovsfett
11-13-2010, 04:00 PM
I'm a fan of the fighting sioux. my team consistently runs players and I'm tired of the refs calling it. a couple years back in minneapolis our guy wanted to pull a player out of the handshake line and have a go and the **** refs hosed us again.

NCAA hates the sioux and I want it to stop

see the UW vs. sux thread for the murray and simonelli shots which were totally clean and the refs suck. now watch the rest. the other teams (ALL OF THEM) just goad us. eff the refs, eff the wcha. nodak>ncaa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvjqW5pAuAg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQaZ3RTCAO8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S67AFrCDnA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhqkKpXIRqA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv72JVfvKPA&feature=related

Dirty
11-13-2010, 04:23 PM
Darn right. We are better and more awesome than everyone. The refs have to make stuff up and cheat us to even the field. You know how much opposing fans whine about UND now? Imagine their bellyaching if the refs didn't try evening the field every game.

bothman
11-13-2010, 04:29 PM
Darn right. We are better and more awesome than everyone. The refs have to make stuff up and cheat us to even the field. You know how much opposing fans whine about UND now? Imagine their bellyaching if the refs didn't try evening the field every game.

Certainly better at urinating in elevators and running a mercenary program where rules seem to be consistently bent for victories.

I think it's fairly pathetic and telling that UND fans are bemoaning their team and the officials having it out for them when you have a kid in the hospital who may never walk / play hockey again.

Someone says you reap what you sew....just sayin....

Dirty
11-13-2010, 04:38 PM
Certainly better at urinating in elevators and running a mercenary program where rules seem to be consistently bent for victories.

I think it's fairly pathetic and telling that UND fans are bemoaning their team and the officials having it out for them when you have a kid in the hospital who may never walk / play hockey again.

Someone says you reap what you sew....just sayin....

See?
Step 1: Opposing fan whine whine whine.
Step 2: UND fan says anything back.
Step 3: Opposing fan whines about that and bemoans UND fans saying anything.

I think we all know that the conspiracy will soon spread to USCHO and Sioux fans will be silenced because opposing fans received mental anguish from UND fans responding to their complaining.

Neil Diamond
11-13-2010, 04:47 PM
I seriously doubt that to be true. They may advise their players to watch what they're doing, but to lay off the hitting?

Okay, he lied to me.

Just because he can.

Neil Diamond
11-13-2010, 04:48 PM
Song sung blue--everybody knows one.

A burd in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Puck Swami
11-13-2010, 05:23 PM
In years gone by, checking was done mostly to separate a player from the puck as part of a defensive or offensive strategy. Since the advent of videotape (and bigger, faster and more armored athletes) I think body checking has morphed from a game strategy to an intimidation tactic, egged on by crowds, instant replays and Don Cherry's "hockey's greatest hits" compilations. Players are told to "finish their checks" and to "hit players so hard you hope they never get up." NHL teams value toughness and players who hit hard. The game is not only about skill, but violence and intimidation, much like the NFL has changed from simply stopping a players progress with a tackle to more violent hits designed to establish physical dominance by bigger, faster and stronger athletes.

North Dakota's program likes to mold itself as an NHL feeder, and they take a great deal of pride in being the toughest team in college hockey and recruiting kids who thrive on this type of physical hockey. This isn't new. This goes back a least to the days of Jim Archibald in the mid-80s, when fighting was not the sin it is today, and the Sioux fans helped turned the shy 5-10, 185 pound Saskatchewan kid into a local folk hero who was willing to tangle with anyone. Since fighting has been legislated virtually out of college hockey in the 1990s, the hard and violent body check has taken on increased importance as the primary method of intimidation. UND doesn't play to injure, but there is no question that they are coached to play to the physical edge of the rules in order to increase the level of physical dominance and intimidation inflicted on opponents. The UND crowd thrives on it, and playing with this style of hockey is clearly seen as a badge of honor by many in Grand Forks and around pro hockey circles. No other program comes close to UND in this part of the game, and as long the Sioux can win this style and have enough skilled players to score goals, the UND fans love this style and the badazz reputation that goes with it. While other programs have players who make big hits when the opportunities present themselves, I think the many of the Sioux players are a little more pre-meditated - and conditioned to deliver a little extra mustard on their hits. This is just fine when it makes their team better able to win games, but when the physical intimidation edge slips over into penalties and injuries, that's when the red flag needs to go up.

Everyone likes a good hard hit, but they need to be legal hits, and many of the UND hits are very much on the border between legal and illegal. Thriving in this grey area has made UND into a feared program. But Sioux fans also need to understand that playing with that kind of edge is going to stir up some anger and resentment among those who value other aspects of the game.

LynahFan
11-13-2010, 06:24 PM
In years gone by, checking was done mostly to separate a player from the puck as part of a defensive or offensive strategy. Since the advent of videotape (and bigger, faster and more armored athletes) I think body checking has morphed from a game strategy to an intimidation tactic, egged on by crowds, instant replays and Don Cherry's "hockey's greatest hits" compilations. Players are told to "finish their checks" and to "hit players so hard you hope they never get up." NHL teams value toughness and players who hit hard. The game is not only about skill, but violence and intimidation, much like the NFL has changed from simply stopping a players progress with a tackle to more violent hits designed to establish physical dominance by bigger, faster and stronger athletes.
I'm sure there is truth in some players trying to overwhelm their opponents out with a single knockout hit, but also don't overlook the cumulative effects of physically wearing down your opponent. Absorbing hits definitely fatigues the muscles and drains your energy reserves, and is mentally frustrating. Teams that pound their opponents for 2 periods can suddenly find themselves a half step ahead in the 3rd...

WestCoastSioux
11-13-2010, 06:48 PM
I agree with what many of you have said here. I guess my concern is that college hockey will NOT be the route that many of the top tier players will take on their way to the NHL. If the NHL starts to view college hockey as a "soft" game, they will most likely look to other leagues players for their future prospects. The players who have to decide whether to play college or junior hockey will also start to view junior hockey as their best chance to make the NHL.

I don't consider myself to be bias on this as just a Sioux fan. I'm a college hockey fan and probably attend more live hockey games where the Sioux aren't even playing. I just appreciate a hard-checking and very physical game, which in my opinion is what the NHL looks for in the style of future players. It's rare to watch a college game these days where guys finish their checks, and play the NHL style game...and when any team does (including the Sioux) they are generally spending alot of time on the penalty kill.

uaafanblog
11-13-2010, 10:47 PM
... the UND fans love this style and the badazz reputation that goes with it.

The Swams said, "badazz" ... that in itself is pretty badazz.

As to the rest of his points they are salient and correct. I would add however that too many of these discussions don't include the most important point and that is ... players are responsible for what they do on the ice. It is only individual players that can control their actions. Decisions made in milliseconds can indeed become the difference between a career playing hockey and a lifetime in a wheelchair or worse. So each individual player must have enough personal character to look within himself day-in and day-out as to exactly what sort of player he is going to be.

Is one going to be the player that satiates the mob by killing someone? Or is one going to be the player that recognizes how to apply an effective hit without trying for the "kill" shot?

If UND fans and it's pretend NHL franchise pushes players to become the latter ... it lessens the soul of the individuals wearing that decapitated Native American head on the front of their sweater.

So there's that.

Osorojo
11-14-2010, 09:41 PM
More and better European players are filling NHL rosters, where it appears their skating, passing and shooting skills are valued more highly than their checking ability. Larger ice surfaces in European rinks might have some influence on the style of play which they bring to the NHL.
Checking an opponent off the puck in open ice is a more difficult skill than checking a stationary or slow moving opponent to intimidate him, but many fans far prefer the latter. The officials must find the fine line which keeps the players healthy while keeping the fans happy.

Happy
11-14-2010, 10:22 PM
Wow, a fan of the goons on ice team complaining about getting a few deserved penalties. hey, if you put skates on a bunch of thugs, get used to a few penalties now and again.

Gurtholfin
11-14-2010, 11:43 PM
Wow, a fan of the goons on ice team complaining about getting a few deserved penalties. hey, if you put skates on a bunch of thugs, get used to a few penalties now and again.

It is fairly telling that a Sioux fan started this thread. ;)

Hitting is only one aspect of the game and it is definitely not what gets me to go to games. Not that I don't like a good hit, but I much prefer a sweet pass or a guy who back checks and breaks up a play.

If taking dangerous hits out of hockey makes anyone stop liking hockey, then I say good riddance. You never truly loved hockey to begin with.

Dirty
11-14-2010, 11:46 PM
When they take crosschecking the net out of hockey, I'm done.