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CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
10-27-2010, 11:28 AM
The U.S. Men's National University Team (http://www.usahockey.com//Template_Usahockey.aspx?NAV=PL_03_04_13&ID=290894) will be heading up to Vermont in late December to prepare for their World University Games tournament in Turkey, and will be playing 3 NCAA schools (one form each division) in the process. They will play Castleton, St. Michael's, and UVM (http://achahockey.org/news2.php?news_id=321454).

The National University Team effectively amounts to an all-star roster of American players in ACHA Division 1. Forget that annual Penn State tournament participation, this could be interesting!

As a side note... a couple references to Adrian College here. (yes, i realize that they are referring to a completely different team, but the same school)


2011 U.S. Men's National University Team Pre-Tournament Series Announced

2010-10-27

TEAM TO FACE THREE NCAA OPPONENTS PRIOR TO 2011 WINTER WORLD UNIVERSITY GAMES

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - The 2011 U.S. Men's National University Team will travel to Vermont from Dec. 27-29 to play games against NCAA opponents Castleton State College, Saint Michael's College and the University of Vermont.

The U.S. Men's National University Team was selected following the USA Hockey Winter World University Games Evaluation Camp, held Aug. 6-8 in Grand Rapids, Mich. The 22-player roster was chosen from collegiate ice hockey teams affiliated with the American Collegiate Hockey Association. The complete U.S. roster can be found here (http://www.usahockey.com//Template_Usahockey.aspx?NAV=PL_03_04_13&ID=290894).

The games are part of Team USA's preparations for the 2011 Winter World University Games, which will take place Jan. 27-Feb. 6, in Erzurum, Turkey.

The U.S. will face NCAA Division III Castleton State College on Dec. 27 in Rutland, Vt., before traveling to South Burlington, Vt., to face NCAA Division II Saint Michael's College on Dec. 28.

Team USA will play its final pre-tournament game against NCAA Division I University of Vermont on Dec. 29, in Burlington, Vt.

The 2011 Winter World University Games is a biannual multi-sport event organized for university athletes by the International University Sports Federation (FISU). The international competition is staged in both the summer and the winter, similar to the Olympic Games. For more information on the 2011 Winter World University Games, click here (http://www.universiadeerzurum.org/english).

NOTES: Tickets for the U.S. match-up against Castleton State College may be purchased at the door, while the game versus Saint Michael's College is free admission ... For University of Vermont ticket information, visit UVMAthletics.com (http://www.uvmathletics.com/sports/2010/6/17/GEN_0617102708.aspx). The game will also be streamed live on CatamounTV (http://www.uvmathletics.com/sports/2010/9/8/GEN_0908103621.aspx) ... The University of Rhode Island leads all schools with four representatives on the team, while Adrian College, Lindenwood University, Oakland University, Penn State University and the University of Oklahoma each have two ... Dave Debol, head men's ice hockey coach at the University of Michigan Dearborn, will serve as head coach of the 2011 U.S. Men's National University Team after having served as an assistant coach for the squad in 2007 and 2009 ... Scott Balboni, head men's ice hockey coach at Penn State University, and Dan Phelps, head men's ice hockey coach at Adrian College, will serve as assistant coaches for Team USA, while Alan Murdoch, head coach of the Iowa State University men's ice hockey team, will serve as general manager of the men's team for the fifth consecutive time. Murdoch also served as head coach of the 2001 squad that competed at the Winter World University Games in Zakopane, Poland. Ashley Bevan, senior director of adult hockey for USA Hockey, will serve as team leader for his fifth consecutive Winter World University Games.

2011 U.S. Men's National University Team Pre-Tournament Schedule


Date Opponent Time Location
12/27 Castleton State (http://www.csc.vsc.edu/athletics/mhockey/index.htm) 7 p.m. Spartan Arena (http://www.csc.vsc.edu/spartanarena/index.htm), Rutland, Vt.

12/28 Saint Michael's (http://www.smcathletics.com/sports/mice/index) 7 p.m. C. Douglas Cairns Arena (http://www.cairnsarena.com/Home.html), South Burlington, Vt.

12/29 Vermont (http://uvmathletics.com/index.aspx?path=mhockey) 8 p.m. Gutterson Fieldhouse (http://www.uvmathletics.com/sports/2010/6/17/GEN_0617101247.aspx?), Burlington, Vt.

2011 WINTER WORLD UNIVERSITY GAMES FORMAT

The 2011 Winter World University Games will feature 12 teams divided into three pools - A, B and C - competing in a round-robin format. The United States will compete in Pool C alongside Kazakhstan, Slovakia and Spain. The Czech Republic, Japan, Russia and Turkey will comprise Pool A, while Belarus, Canada, Slovenia and South Korea will comprise Pool B. After the preliminary round, six teams will advance to the qualifying round and six teams will advance to the relegation round.

hawk
10-27-2010, 02:37 PM
Just wondering if anyone has proposed games between all stars in the D3 east and west regions against top D1 programs. I know the ACHA doesn't have many rules but such games could generate fans interest and be good for college hockey in general. Any my guess the D3 all star teams would probable beat most D1 programs.

MN Cyclone
10-27-2010, 05:57 PM
I think there would be too much NCAA red tape to even let somebody think of a D3 all stars vs D1 game.

norm1909
10-27-2010, 06:30 PM
I think there would be too much NCAA red tape to even let somebody think of a D3 all stars vs D1 game.

I agree, the closest you are going to get will happen next arround 7pm on Friday, April 8, 2011 in the Xcel Energy Center.

Buck Woodshed
10-28-2010, 06:24 AM
A couple of things jump to mind here. First, that these schools are playing an extra exhibition game added in the middle of the season against a questionable opponent who really does nothing for them other than the possibility of injury. Why would a Vermont want to play a team like this in the middle of a grueling Hockey East season, for instance? What are the benefits? Second, I noticed that several of the schools represented on this "all star" team have varsity NCAA programs. This leads to the question of how good this team really is. In my mind, I would think that if you were of an "all star" caliber you would be playing on the NCAA team at your school. Still, it will be interesting to see the scores of this game for comparison purposes. I can remember some years ago when Plattsbugh (D2) went to New England for a weekend and played Curry (D3) and lost. The next night they played Providence (D1) and won. All three of these teams were very strong in their respective divisions at the time. It was in the late 80's.

Russell Jaslow
10-28-2010, 07:13 AM
A couple of things jump to mind here. First, that these schools are playing an extra exhibition game added in the middle of the season against a questionable opponent who really does nothing for them other than the possibility of injury. Why would a Vermont want to play a team like this in the middle of a grueling Hockey East season, for instance? What are the benefits? Second, I noticed that several of the schools represented on this "all star" team have varsity NCAA programs. This leads to the question of how good this team really is. In my mind, I would think that if you were of an "all star" caliber you would be playing on the NCAA team at your school. Still, it will be interesting to see the scores of this game for comparison purposes. I can remember some years ago when Plattsbugh (D2) went to New England for a weekend and played Curry (D3) and lost. The next night they played Providence (D1) and won. All three of these teams were very strong in their respective divisions at the time. It was in the late 80's.

In the late 70s and early 80s Plattsburgh played Clarkson a number of times. Even beat them once, and back then Clarkson was a real power. In the mid-80's, RIT hosted Clarkson a couple of years in a row at the downtown arena. During those years, crossover games happened relatively frequently. They're very rare today.

There were a lot less D1 schools, and the talent level between D1 and top D3 programs were much smaller. Nowadays, I believe top D3 programs could beat lower level D1 teams, but no way do the top D3 programs beat the top D1 schools.

hawk
10-28-2010, 09:45 AM
In the late 70s and early 80s Plattsburgh played Clarkson a number of times. Even beat them once, and back then Clarkson was a real power. In the mid-80's, RIT hosted Clarkson a couple of years in a row at the downtown arena. During those years, crossover games happened relatively frequently. They're very rare today.

There were a lot less D1 schools, and the talent level between D1 and top D3 programs were much smaller. Nowadays, I believe top D3 programs could beat lower level D1 teams, but no way do the top D3 programs beat the top D1 schools.

Russell what do you consider a top D1 program. I agree UNH, BC, BU, and sometimes Maine should be consider top D1 programs, but the rest are middle of the pack or below in my opinion. Just from watching a few D1 games (some this year) and a lot of D3 games I got to think Plattsburgh, Oswego, Elmira, Manhattanville, Norwich, Middlebury, and maybe Williams could be competitive with the Atlantic Hocke, ECAC, and some Hockey East teams. That's why a lot of us will be watching the Castleton/All Star game to see how it compare with the UVM game even through UVM will probable play a lot of subs.

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
10-28-2010, 10:11 AM
Russell what do you consider a top D1 program. I agree UNH, BC, BU, and sometimes Maine should be consider top D1 programs, but the rest are middle of the pack or below in my opinion. Just from watching a few D1 games (some this year) and a lot of D3 games I got to think Plattsburgh, Oswego, Elmira, Manhattanville, Norwich, Middlebury, and maybe Williams could be competitive with the Atlantic Hocke, ECAC, and some Hockey East teams. That's why a lot of us will be watching the Castleton/All Star game to see how it compare with the UVM game even through UVM will probable play a lot of subs.

Atlantic Hockey, with its limited scholarships and lack of big-name schools, certainly. They could all be in a position to pull off what RIT has. But ECAC, no. Sure, they'll get an occasional win against a bottom-feeder, but that's about it. If you added those 7 to the ECAC and were able to run it as a 19-team conference (all but impossible under the current game limits, but let's say hypothetically that it were possible), I think you'd find all 7 of those teams in the bottom 9. Sure, the ivies don't have scholarships, but they have academic recognition.

Now, I'll assume you're talking about a one-off game against any ECAC opponent. Absolutely, it's possible. Any team can beat any other team on any given day. But if the DI team puts their core roster on the ice, and actually plays as if it weren't an exhibition vs. a Division III opponent... I think you'd see Norwich losing to all but the absolute worst in the ECAC. Yes, any of those 7 could pull off a win against the absolute bottom-feeders on ECAC and Hockey East if they really tried, but anything beyond that is a delusional dream. Case in point: RIT, who is using the same recruiting tactics as any of the top DIII schools, but with the added benefits of being able to say "we're a serious contender in a Division I Conference", is 0-4-1 this season, with 2 of those losses coming handily to RPI and Union of the ECAC. (Yes, I am aware of what RIT did last year, but I'm not delusional enough to think that any of these DIII teams could pull that off without a few years of DI hockey and DI recruiting under their belts.)

EDIT: please don't interpret this to mean that I think you're delusional. I simply mean to say that I disagree with your statement.

Russell Jaslow
10-28-2010, 10:30 AM
Russell what do you consider a top D1 program. I agree UNH, BC, BU, and sometimes Maine should be consider top D1 programs, but the rest are middle of the pack or below in my opinion. Just from watching a few D1 games (some this year) and a lot of D3 games I got to think Plattsburgh, Oswego, Elmira, Manhattanville, Norwich, Middlebury, and maybe Williams could be competitive with the Atlantic Hocke, ECAC, and some Hockey East teams. That's why a lot of us will be watching the Castleton/All Star game to see how it compare with the UVM game even through UVM will probable play a lot of subs.

Anyone in the top ten.

In the past, D3 teams were able to beat top ten teams on occassion. Now, I'm saying that is not at all possible.

What you're saying is essentially the same thing I'm saying, though I think you're grouping too many teams in the "can be beat by a D3 team" category.

norm1909
10-28-2010, 11:16 AM
In the late 70s and early 80s Plattsburgh played Clarkson a number of times. Even beat them once, and back then Clarkson was a real power. In the mid-80's, RIT hosted Clarkson a couple of years in a row at the downtown arena. During those years, crossover games happened relatively frequently. They're very rare today.

There were a lot less D1 schools, and the talent level between D1 and top D3 programs were much smaller. Nowadays, I believe top D3 programs could beat lower level D1 teams, but no way do the top D3 programs beat the top D1 schools.

The 1980-81 Plattsburgh State Cardinals beat Clarkson (10/25/80) 3-2, Colgate 11-6, UVM (11/11/80) 7-5, the next year, they beat UVM (11/11/81) 7-6, on 11/15/87 they beat University of Alaska-Anchorage 5-4.

They last faced Clarkson 1/20/92, when they lost 6-2 (Bob Emery was the coach).

Another game of note, on 1/19/97, they played McGill (Que), winning 4-3.

Against St. Lawerence they are 0-5-1 (4-4 tie occured 1/1/82) (last played 11/1/86)
Against UVM they are 2-5 (last played 11/6/86)
Against Clarkson they are 1-4 (last played 1/20/92) - this may be the last time they faced a DI team

They played Niagara in the Cardinal Classic on 11/29/96, I believe this is the last time they played against a DI opponent (though I am not certain if it was Niagara University and if so, if they were DI then).

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
10-28-2010, 11:22 AM
They played Niagara in the Cardinal Classic on 11/29/97, I believe this is the last time they played against a DI opponent (though I am not certain if it was Niagara University and if so, if they were DI then).

If it was indeed NU, it was the start of their second season as a DI Independent, according to their Team History page on USCHO.

norm1909
10-28-2010, 11:24 AM
If it was indeed NU, it was the start of their second season as a DI Independent, according to their Team History page on USCHO.

In double checking, it actually was played 11/29/1996, Plattsburgh did win the game against Niagara 6-2, and then took the Cardinal Classic, beating RIT 5-3.

Dyce
10-28-2010, 01:41 PM
In terms of major conference opponents (as mentioned, Niagara was an independent, and still very much a transitional program), I believe Plattsburgh's last DI opponent would have been Princeton. If I remember correctly, the two played home-and-home exhibitions (one per year) at the beginning of a couple of seasons in the mid-90s. Unfortunately, Plattsburgh was on a downswing and Princeton was seeing its first real success, so the Cardinals got thumped on both occasions.

norm1909
10-28-2010, 01:46 PM
In terms of major conference opponents (as mentioned, Niagara was an independent, and still very much a transitional program), I believe Plattsburgh's last DI opponent would have been Princeton. If I remember correctly, the two played home-and-home exhibitions (one per year) at the beginning of a couple of seasons in the mid-90s. Unfortunately, Plattsburgh was on a downswing and Princeton was seeing its first real success, so the Cardinals got thumped on both occasions.

Plattsburgh did face Princeton 11/4/94, losing 4-3 (not really thumped), but were thumped the next year 11/29/95, losing 8-0!

The 1995-96 school year also saw Plattsburgh defeat (thump) Bentley 9-1 on 11/24/95 and fall to Army 4-3 11/25/95 (this was the Cardinal Classic). and this is probably why you won't see a DI - top flight DIII matchup again.

Oh yeah, 2006 saw this top flight DIII vs "DI" game (http://collegehockeystats.net/0506/boxes/moswrit1.j14) too :)

Dyce
10-28-2010, 02:03 PM
Plattsburgh did face Princeton 11/4/94, losing 4-3 (not really thumped), but were thumped the next year 11/29/95, losing 8-0!

The 1995-96 school year also saw Plattsburgh defeat (thump) Bentley 9-1 on 11/24/95 and fall to Army 4-3 11/25/95 (this was the Cardinal Classic).

Thanks for the corrections - I knew some thumping happened, anyway. Ah, Plattsburgh/Army in the Classic: the game that produced what is unfortunately many Cardinal fans' most vivid memory of Pat O'Neil between the pipes :(

hawk
12-31-2010, 08:14 AM
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20101229/SPORTS0101/101229031/1002/SPORTS/UVM-skates-past-U.S.-National-University-in-exhibition

For fans who are interested the above is a link to the US National U team game with UVM with reference to D3 scores with Castleton and St. Mike's. I cann't believe Castleton lost to the club all star team after the way they played against Norwich a couple of weeks ago. Maybe Castleton didn't take the game seriously and played all there subs?

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
12-31-2010, 08:39 AM
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20101229/SPORTS0101/101229031/1002/SPORTS/UVM-skates-past-U.S.-National-University-in-exhibition

For fans who are interested the above is a link to the US National U team game with UVM with reference to D3 scores with Castleton and St. Mike's. I cann't believe Castleton lost to the club all star team after the way they played against Norwich a couple of weeks ago. Maybe Castleton didn't take the game seriously and played all there subs?

Box Score for the Castleton game (http://collegehockeystats.net/boxes/mcstusn1.d27)
Recap from the Castleton SID's office (http://achahockey.org/files/castleton_recap.pdf)

Box Score for the St. Michael's game (http://achahockey.org/files/stmichaels_boxscore_stats.pdf)
Recap from the St. Michael's SID office (http://achahockey.org/files/stmichaels_recap.pdf)

Box Score for the UVM game (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1011/boxes/musnver1.d29)
Recap from UVM Athletics (http://uvmathletics.com/news/2010/12/29/GEN_1229102330.aspx)

Just a note: as these were exhibition games, the "experimental" rules were used. 4x4 Overtime, and the shorthaded team can't ice the puck. Considering Castleton had multiple 5x3 penalty kills, I'd say this possibly contributed to the loss.

Anyway...

While head-to-head matchups over the years have shown that DIII is definitely far superior to ACHA D1, I'd argue that it's not a surprise that an all-star team from that level would be competitive amongst the DII/DIII ranks. There is more talent than one might think in the ACHA... it's just more spread out. Take all of that talent onto one all-star team, and you've got yourself a darn good team!

That said, it look like in all 3 games, there was a agreement to do a goalie change at the first whistle after 10:00 of the second period. Did that have an impact on the results? Probably. But does it matter? No. These were exhibition games - a chance for the coach to see and tweak things in a competitive game environment without anything actually being on the line. I'm sure it was viewed this way by all 4 coaching staffs.