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walrus
11-17-2010, 06:38 AM
Because they were so common before.

Common, not common, its the goal or used to be.

rufus
11-17-2010, 09:20 AM
I couldn't agree more. This was my frustration in the NU/ME thread discussing goalies. Sullivan has kept us in the games and our offense has won them. I don't call giving up 2 goals on 17-23 shots hot. What happens when we play a team that puts over 30 sog? We tie or lose. Sully will continue to play until he loses and he won't take us to January unless he gets hot.

The only way Sully doesn't play both games is if he gives up 4 goals on Fri.

Lot better than giving up 5 on 17 shots like some of our previous goalies.

Priceless
11-17-2010, 10:08 AM
Common, not common, its the goal or used to be.

It isn't anymore?

The team has been to four Frozen Fours and is a skate blade and a bad official away from having two more championships.

The current Black Bears are #3 in the polls, #5 in the PWR and have the best record in Hockey East. But let's find something to complain about because we can't possibly be happy because the team is winning again!

Runsub5
11-17-2010, 12:00 PM
since i am up with a vomiting pup tonight i decided to pull together some data on how much of the load starting goalies (defined for this exercise as the goalie on each team that has played the majority of the minutes/games, regardless of perceived status as the #1) carry across d-1, here is what i came up with:

WCHA
Starting goalies played 90.92 of the 131 games played so far this season by WCHA teams. This represents 69.4% of all games.
The 1st Backup (second most games played) accounted for the remaining 40.08 games representing 30.6% of all games played by WCHA teams.

CCHA
Starting goalies played 91.42 of the 125 games played so far this season by CCHA teams. This represents 73.14% of all games.
The 1st Backup accounted for the remaining 33.58 games representing 26.86% of all games played by CCHA teams.

ECACHL
Starting goalies played 74.33 of the 95 games played so far this season by ECACHL teams. This represents 78.24% of all games.
The 1st Backup accounted for 17 games representing 17.89% of all games played by ECACHL teams.
All other goaltenders accounted for the remaining 3.67 games and 3.86%

Atlantic Hockey
Starting goalies played 78.92 of the 108 games played so far this season by ECACHL teams. This represents 73.07% of all games.
The 1st Backup accounted for 21.58 games representing 19.98% of all games played by ECACHL teams.
All other goaltenders accounted for the remaining 7.50 games and 6.94%.

Hockey East
Starting goalies have played 76.07 of the 96 games played so far this season by HE teams. This represents 79.24% of all games.
The 1st Backup accounted for 18.93 games representing 19.72% of all games played by HE teams.
All other goaltenders accounted for the remaining 1.00 game and 1.04%.

Alabama Huntsville
Starting goaltender has played 7.50 of the 12 games played so far this season by UAH. This represents 61.50% of all games.
The 1st Backup accounted for 4 games representing 33.33% of all games played.
All other goaltenders accounted for the remaining .50 games and 4.17%.

On the whole of DI, there have been a total 567 team games played this season. Of those 567 games, the starting goaltender has accounted for 419.16 games which represents 73.93% of all games played. The first backup has played a total of 135.17 games accounting for 23.84% of all games. All other goalies accounted for the remaining 12.67 games and 2.23%.

How does Maine stack up? Maine has played 10 games to date. Sullivan has played 6.15 games or 61.50% of the time. Sirman follows with 2.85 games or 28.50% of the time, and Ouellette has played in 1 game for 10%. Comparing those numbers, Sullivan, as the starter has played less on a percentage basis than the average percentage attributed to the starter in every league. Sullivan has played 12.5% less than the average of all of the other starters. 17 teams starters have carried less of a load than Sullivan has thus far, and many of those teams are not exactly tournament hopefuls. In contrast, there are 16 teams who have starters that have played 90% or more of their teams games including 7 that have played every minute of every game. Essentially 2/3 of all teams have their starting tender carrying more of the load than Sully has thus far.

I think people are panicking a bit too much over nothing. Maine is no different than any other program out there, leaning on one goalie to do the bulk of the lifting with the others picking up time here and there...

Very impressive compilation of data. Especially at 2:00 a.m. :D

KnowItAll
11-17-2010, 12:21 PM
It isn't anymore?

The team has been to four Frozen Fours and is a skate blade and a bad official away from having two more championships.

The current Black Bears are #3 in the polls, #5 in the PWR and have the best record in Hockey East. But let's find something to complain about because we can't possibly be happy because the team is winning again!

again, you are trying to get people to point out the obvious
Grant Maine vs no grant.

and you want someone to point out who maine has played this season... kudos.

walrus
11-17-2010, 12:57 PM
It isn't anymore?

The team has been to four Frozen Fours and is a skate blade and a bad official away from having two more championships.

The current Black Bears are #3 in the polls, #5 in the PWR and have the best record in Hockey East. But let's find something to complain about because we can't possibly be happy because the team is winning again!
Complaining is kind of a strong word isn't it? I'd say its a discussion about what we fans would like to see. Thats what this board is all about, isn't it. I think most of us can see the obvious things you like to point out, maybe if you say them enough we'll stop going to games or reading up on the team or listening to them on the radio or hoping they win another championship or not

Howitz-ah
11-17-2010, 01:29 PM
What I know is you "nutcases" have been crying for years and now you have a winning team and you are still crying.!

Indeed...because all good teams win games and say:

"Top notch work boys! There is nothing we could possibly do differently so lets get blissfully complacent and make no adjustments in the future!! Let's make sure our opponents know exactly what to prepare for in practice, and make sure we keep no one on their toes. Additionally lets keep as few players fresh for game-action as we can!"

As far as your previous response, I think I already hit on those points..

Readers Digest version...
OK, but Sullivan isn't exactly going on a Tim Thomas run of shutouts here....nor a Ben Bishop run of 1-goal/game 'shutouts'

He's been fantastic, but ..... Is the assumption that if Sullivan gave up 2 goals per game the others would have given up 5? Who's to say one of the other guys doesn't come into one of those nights a pitch a shutout? Where does the conversation go if that happens? ... I'm just saying that I haven't seen enough of this race to call it already.

Ride Mr. Sullivan for as far as 2 goals/game takes him? What if we do, he takes us to January, and Mr. Sullivan blows his knee? Now, in the heat of the season, we have to rely on guys that haven't seen action in 3 months.

END POINT....

People keep saying 'ride the hot hand'...

well, again, no disrespect to sully, but our HOT HAND is 9th in conference in save percentage. :o THis is quite obviously the best we're going to do this year, so lets not risk anything?

Every single handed goalie we've used in the past 5 or 6 years got complacent with his job at some point, or went into slumps, and when he slumped we really had little choice but to keep playing him because the guy behind him wasn't game ready which partially explains some our previous mid or late season faulters. How are you people secure without any form of goaltending insurance?

Regardless of what Hockey East Superfan says....NU will not be a TUC. Road games carry more weight than home in the PWR, so you've got a home series against an in conference non-TUC. The stakes couldnt have been lower to give someone else a mere look.

lkenney
11-17-2010, 01:33 PM
Every situation is different. Was Alfie in a rotation 98-99?

sandiegoblkbr
11-17-2010, 01:35 PM
The team has been to four Frozen Fours and is a skate blade and a bad official away from having two more championships.

You had to remind us!..........

Howitz-ah
11-17-2010, 01:35 PM
I think people are panicking a bit too much over nothing. Maine is no different than any other program out there, leaning on one goalie to do the bulk of the lifting with the others picking up time here and there...

Love the outside of the box stats. Excellent work.

I do realize that the majority of teams exclusively use 1 goalie, but Tim expected a competition/rotation, and he has seemingly declared a 'no 2nd place relevant' winner less than a month into the season.

Not to mention, a 2 headed goalie has found just about all of Maine's major successes.

lkenney
11-17-2010, 01:37 PM
Love the outside of the box stats. Excellent work.

I do realize that the majority of teams exclusively use 1 goalie, but Tim expected a competition/rotation, and he has seemingly declared a 'no 2nd place relevant' winner less than a month into the season.

Not to mention, a 2 headed goalie has found just about all of Maine's major successes.

I don't see it like that. If Sullivan has a bad game, don't you think we'll see a different tender the next game?

walrus
11-17-2010, 01:42 PM
I don't see it like that. If Sullivan has a bad game, don't you think we'll see a different tender the next game?

Did that happen with Darling or Bishop?

Howitz-ah
11-17-2010, 01:49 PM
Did that happen with Darling or Bishop?

Exactly, just like when we had established rotations, a good game friday didn't mean keep playing until you stink up the joint one night.

How is turning to someone else despite sullivan's good starts any more of a risk then if we keep playing him every game? Wouldn't you say the kid's gonna be due for a rough one eventually? can you predict the night? You can look **** fine in practice all week then give up 6 on Friday. Similarly, I've watched warmups and thought....man... he doesn't look like he's feelin it...and then he puts up an egg.

It's all well and good, though, because as far as most here are concerned, Sully is off the hook. Should he play a bad game this weekend, we'll all just pat him on the back for everything he's done before and maybe play someone else. Should Sirman come in and have a mediocre game...everyone can think: Are you happy now? As if to imply his mediocre game 1 night transfers to all nights, and he obviously would have lost those games sullivan won.

lkenney
11-17-2010, 01:56 PM
Did that happen with Darling or Bishop?

Every situation is different. As I said, it didn't happen with Alfie either. Sirman had the inside track to start the season, and Sullivan has taken it with his play. For now.

walrus
11-17-2010, 02:02 PM
Who was Alfies backup?, I can't remember. I do remember Alfie certainly didn't set the world on fire during the regular season, but he was pretty good when it mattered:D. Sully has been good, no doubt about it.

Howitz-ah
11-17-2010, 02:04 PM
Every situation is different. As I said, it didn't happen with Alfie either. Sirman had the inside track to start the season, and Sullivan has taken it with his play. For now.

Someone talked about the softy Sirman gave up. I guess that one did cost him if you're giving starts simply based on performance.

Look at how the numbers stack up when you take that softy away...

Sirman
2-0-1 83.3%
.911 Save Pct
2.39 GAA (Facing Over 27 shots/game)

Sullivan
4-1-1 75%
.901 Save pct
2.24 (Facing less than 23 shots/game)

This race is obviously Sullivans based on ice performance alone...

KnowItAll
11-17-2010, 02:15 PM
Who was Alfies backup?, I can't remember. I do remember Alfie certainly didn't set the world on fire during the regular season, but he was pretty good when it mattered:D. Sully has been good, no doubt about it.

Alfie's backup was 3-0-1 with a 1.73 gaa
and a future all Hockey east goalie his senior year... also he played a lot for the Oilers and for the Senators in the NHL
(and in my opinion, he was the "reason" that Maine lost to Minnesota in the Piotrowski game)

(but i didn't remember either, I had to look it up)

KnowItAll
11-17-2010, 02:20 PM
You had to remind us!..........

yeah but he did not remind us where Lake State was after they did all those things and suddenly stopped

lkenney
11-17-2010, 02:22 PM
Someone talked about the softy Sirman gave up. I guess that one did cost him if you're giving starts simply based on performance.

Look at how the numbers stack up when you take that softy away...

Sirman
2-0-1 83.3%
.911 Save Pct
2.39 GAA (Facing Over 27 shots/game)

Sullivan
4-1-1 75%
.901 Save pct
2.24 (Facing less than 23 shots/game)

This race is obviously Sullivans based on ice performance alone...

I like how calm and how square Sully plays. Very quiet. His numbers also include his first ever start in college hockey. His save percentage will grow. I was surprised he started the second game against Northeastern, I thought that would have been a good time to get Sirman in, but I'm not going to complain as long as the results are there.

Priceless
11-17-2010, 02:49 PM
Road games carry more weight than home in the PWR, so you've got a home series against an in conference non-TUC. The stakes couldnt have been lower to give someone else a mere look.

Road games carry the exact same weight as home games in the PWR.

Games against non-TUC teams have to be won. They aren't throwaway games. If the opponent is pitiful the win will get dropped from your RPI altogether - if you lose or tie to a non-TUC it can kill your RPI. If they somehow manage to become a TUC (hello Union) it can keep you from making the tournament. Not to mention it is two points in Hockey East...those points can be pretty valuable come March.