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dover4345
12-24-2011, 11:09 PM
as usual, we have one major snafu with the scenerios being rolled out...

IT WAS NOT UNH'S CHOICE TO HAVE HIM WALK AND THEY MADE MANY CALLS TO GET HIM TO STAY AND COME BACK

So I guess that would lead one to believe they didnt feel like they thought they could spend money better elsewhere.

He left because he was dealt with in a dishonest fashion, period. Not the other way around

Hokydad,

Here is what I will say. I feel bad in saying he has accomplished nothing. He has had one of the best highschool careers in recent history and it ended on a very positive note---so yes, he has accomplished alot that some players only dream about. I am sure he is a great kid and at some point may have been a nice player at UNH.

Having said that--I do not believe he is ready to contribute next season and because of that I agree with the staff's decision that it would be best for his development to play in the USHL instead of coming in and not playing in the role they envision him in. I will hold firm in stating that he has much to prove before he can be considered a major loss. You clearly believe in the kid. There is nothing wrong with that. You are basing your comments on the belief that he will develop into a star, and maybe he will--but you are clearly personally attached to the situation, I am not. I am basing it off what he has accomplished thus far. And while his accomplishments in Mass highschool hockey are great--the level of play is no longer and indicator that success in Mass highschool hockey will translate into college hockey success. Success in the USHL is usually an indicator--he has not had success yet, which is why it is my opinion that he is just an average recruit/depth player and not a major loss to the program. I also do not believe he was dealt with in a dishonest fashion. I believe the UNH staff's decisions were made with the kids best interest at heart. They knew he wouldnt play and did not want him to be miserable in college. It was handled in a professional manner. MV is upset with the fact that he was under the impression that he would play in 2012 and the staff no longer believe that he can. It is a difference in opinion--there is nothing dishonest about that. People change their minds, timelines change, players develop at different rates. When he committed they felt he would be able to play a role in 2012. Things change--they do not feel that way anymore and they told him. That is not being dishonest. It might be bad news, but it is not dishonest. How are you so confident you have all the facts? You have spoken to both the staff and MV? You are getting one side of the story. His scholorship was never pulled. If they did that than I would agree that they are being dishonest. Does the fact that UNH has many bodies factor their decision to delay MV? Yes... But if MV had 20 points in 17 games i would GUARANTEE that he would still be committed to UNH and planning to enroll next fall. Kid is not ready.

BC gets the top guys--so I am going to ignore the guy who posted about how good BC develops players. They get their pick of the litter and in most seasons they have more talent than any team in the east--this season included. What big money players have they brought in, sat in the stands for an entire season and had them develop later in their careers? Please give me a name?

dover4345
12-24-2011, 11:37 PM
Wrong. Every program loses players to MJ issues - we've all seen it (although UNH has only lost ONE). That is a completely different issue than UNH losing players because theyre recruiting kids that don't meet the admissions standard. It is a completely different issue than consistently missing on talent or over recruiting. You don't want to see the difference because it supports your argument.

No- You stated that it is the staffs fault for wasting time on kids who wont get in. What is the difference between wasting time on a kid who wont get in vs. wasting time on a kid who is unlikely to come. Either way you tie up scholorship money that could be spent on someone else. A lost recruit is a lost recruit.


I knew you'd bring up Tiefenworth - but thats ONE example from BC. One instance does nothing to prove this happens all the time at other schools. Its a poor example at that - as BC passing on Tiefenworth essentially opens the door for the Gadreau brothers. MV gets compared to the 2012 forwards because those are the players that UNH has decided to bring in for 2012 instead of him. UNH would rather spend that 75% on Hill, Smith, Silengo, etc than on MV. Its pretty easy to understand if you could just think objectively for a minute...

What about Todd Perry? He went major junior because BC WAS not playing him. They missed on him and ran him out of town. What is the difference between the way Perry was dealt with and Chevrier?



Every major college program gets 18 scholarships to build a team. Thats the 'economics' of college hockey. UNH gave Vecchione a 75% scholarship and, in just over a year would rather walk away completely, than take him a year earlier than they'd hope? It doesn't add up - as much as you want it to. Its clear they over-recruited. The only way you wouldn't compare Vecchione to Smith/Hill/McDonald/Correale is to say they over recruited for the future - ie. 2013/14 forwards. But if they were okay defering Vecchione for a year than that doesn't add up either. Until they spend Vecchione's money he gets compared to the 2012 class, period. I hope for your sake that when they spend it the comparison looks a lot better...

Fair enough--we will judge how they spend the MV money when they committ their next 75% plus scholorship forward. But how can you say it is the same to compare a full ride guy with a walk on? or a 75% guy with a walk on? It is two totally different standards.


Which is it? They either did a crappy job deciding how to spend their money or they ran a 75% scholarship kid out the door?

They missed on him. The CURRENT staff does not feel he can be an impact guy. The guy who felt that way is no longer with the program. I would bet every dollar I have that both SB and JT have seen and evaluated MV... Clearly they both felt he was not ready.



So we only get to use the #'s as if they are gospel when they suit your argument? You brought up all the numerical comparisons in the first place to disparage MV - but now we can't compare MV's stats to Sorkin's cause he has good size or to Smith/Hill/Gaudreault because (even though they are being chosen over Vecchione) they have low expectations based on scholarship dollars???

You cant compare MV with Smith/Hill/Gaudreau because they all get less money than MV. Also--how do you know they are being chosen over MV? How do you know the staff has not told them the same thing--If you come, you wont play? Do you know the answer to that question? Also- in regards to sorkin--I have seen them both play at the same age--sorkin has a ton of upside and it wasnt a matter of if his game would take off, but a matter of when. UNH staff was right about that decision, which leads me to think they are probably right about the MV decision.



The problem is not MV - the problem is he is another in a LONG trend of lost recruits at UNH. Which is frustrating AND UNUSUAL at the NCAA level.

This is all new--hence a new person dealing with them in admissions. I would bet my bottom dollar that they have learned because of the situation with White/Reid/etc---they were all in the same class and academic issues have not happened since--have they? When a new/strict admissions person comes in, surely there is a learning curve. I believe Borek/Lassonde were doing business as usual and the admissions department gave them a reality check. It has not happened since that one class has it? Now they know. Lets see if they fumble again, if they do I will be the first person to agree with you that it is an ongoing problem. As of right now it has only happened with ONE class. Lesson learned, but UNH is left feeling the effects right now. If you look at the pipeline you can see they have done an excellent job and it is STOCKED with high end talent. Tyler Kelleher? ever seen him play? Is he the type of player you say UNH can not land anymore?

I guess you have some strong bias towards the coaching staff, whatever that may be. I love how you rip HokyDad claiming an obvious bias, while your arguments are filled with bias and hyperbole.

Sure-I support the staff. But I am realistic. There are so many people on this board that do not look at the real issues. Admissions is harder- the building is declining--they do not have a nice weight room...those are REAL problems and they need state funding to fix... Those things DO EFFECT the recruiting process. They were not issues 10-15 years ago. I think SB's job is harder than BM's was, and you guys just seem totally ok with ignoring that. I look at the guys that have been brought in--and if not for admissions we would not be in our current situation. The admissions lesson is learned--watch...You cant expect the guy to know that was coming. If those players are here the program is in a total different position. The program will rebound--this is ONE bad season--I am still not sold that it is a lost season. I feel once Desmith takes over you will see UNH pile on wins--but that is a whole new discussion.

dover4345
12-24-2011, 11:38 PM
Read the post below--I answered many of your questions--the answers are in the quote box... messed up in formatting it...

Dan
12-25-2011, 12:10 AM
Read the post below--I answered many of your questions--the answers are in the quote box... messed up in formatting it...

Alright, well we continue to disagree in a lot of areas but it is what it is. I hope youre right that the staff has learned from their mistakes and is now full steam ahead. I hope youre right that the loss of MV doesn't haunt the program like the others. The future classes look very solid. I'll take a wait and see approach for now and hope they all matriculate.

The scholarship money means nothing to me, because once players are on campus thats out the window and its a capitalist effort for playing time. You get 18 scholarships to build a team and you use that money to attract players. Every situation is different, but once at school its about production to earn playing time. I don't care if they split it up or give 18 fulls - utilize the money to get the best talent/fits. Have they done that? Not in my opinion. They've missed and settled far to often. MV aside, I'd rather have one kid (whoever that may be) equivalent to 75% talent level than three kids equivalent to the 25% threshold.

Too often they appear to bring in late pick ups to simply spend the money or fill a spot. Quast is a good example and maybe you can shed some light on the situation. Is he receiving a scholarship? Walking on late to fill Chevrier's spot? Is even any good? On the surface it appears to be another late grab because they've left themselves in the lurch. Will he be the next defenseman to sit in the stands all season? Does this pick up change the plans for Pesce in '12?

dover4345
12-25-2011, 12:40 AM
dover, still waiting for you to convince anyone that the 07-08 team was more talented than the 01-02 team (the most talented team top to bottom we've seen)...

Merry Christmas W'Cat fans...you too hoky.

WildShawn--first, please note that I am a huge fan of UNH Hockey--and the 01-02 is one of the best. You are not going to hear me argue that. My point was that alot of people on this thread have stated that UNH's talent has dropped off since 2003 by a considerable amount. My point was that no it has not. They have been 1 game away from the FF each of the last 3 seasons, they have won numerous RS titles. And while I am well aware that playoff success is the ultimate measure of success--I am stating that the TALENT has been there. What have they done with the talent? I think they have done a good job, just making the NCAA tournament is more challenging than most realize--but others will clearly state that it is National Championship or bust in Durham. Anyways-- I believe that the greatest measure of talent is being named an all-american or a Hobey finalist. It is stating that you are one of the top 6 forwards in the east, top 4 defenseman in the east, or top 2 goalie in the east. A Hobey nomination speaks for itself--you are one of the top 10 players in the country. I believe those awards speak much more than points. Points can be inflated just by playing with great players. Anyway, I will try to keep this short, as clearly I have spent alot of time defending my beliefs on this thread.

01/02 TEAM

All Americans-Haydar, Hemingway, Collins, Gare, Saviano, Ayers---TOTAL-6
Hobey Finalists- Haydar, Saviano---Total-2

07/08 TEAM

All Americans- Fornataro, Radja, Reagan, Flaishans, Foster, Thompson, Butler--TOTAL-7
Hobey Finalist-Reagan, Thompson, Butler---Total 3

01/02 Depth Guys--excluding guys who really didnt dress
Josh Prudden-AHL/ECHL player
David Busch-Done playing after UNH
Jim Abbott-ECHL player
Garret Stafford-Great Dman, one of the best ever at UNH
Mick Mounsey-Done playing after UNH
Kevin Truelson-ECHL player
Tyson Teplitsky-ECHL Player
Ed Caron-BUST
Pat Foley-BUST/10 ECHL games
Preson Callander-ECHL.European pro--great senior year
Tim Horst-Done playing after UNH
Nathan Martz-ECHL/Euro player
Mike Lubesnick-Done playing after UNH
Justin Aikins-ECHL/Euro player
Tyler Scott-ECHL player
Robbie Barker-ECHL Player
Matt Carney-CHL player

Depth Players Summary-0 NHL players, 2 AHL players (Prudden/Stafford), 9 CHL/ECHL/Euro players and 6 players with little to no pro experience.

07/08 Depth Guys--exlcuding guys who didnt dress

JVR-NHL Player
Pete Leblanc-AHL Player
Phil Desimone-AHL Player
Mike Sislo-AHL Player
Jamie Fritsche-AHL/ECHL Player (will ignore his 1 NHL game)
Joe Charlebois-ECHL Player
Jerry Pollestrone-ECHL Player
Greg Collins-ECHL/Euro
Thomas Fortney-Euro
Kevin Kapstad-Euro
Craig Switzer-ECHL
Matt Campanale-ECHL
Nick Krates-Done playing
Danny Dries- Ohio State--probably and AHL player

Depth players summary--1 NHL player, 4 AHL players, 7 ECHL/Euro guys, 1 player who could be in the AHL at seasons end, and 1 player who stopped playing.

This summary states that the 07/08 team had more Hobey finalists, more all americans, more NHL players, more AHL players and less ECHL players and less players with no pro experience.

We are talking about "talent' only. The 01/02 team proved to be the better "team"...but it did not have more talent top to bottom. The 07/08 team has far more NHL games played and far more AHL games played--that is a pretty good measure of talent id say.

Hokydad
12-25-2011, 09:36 AM
Dover, you can write a sermon for 65 paragraphs and at the end of the day, you still have no idea what you are talking about. None...

I did in fact talk with the Tri City coach(about other things as well) and I know exactly what was done/said and to say there is a huge disconnect and that it was not straight forward and dishonest is a fact, not a he said she said. He is top 2 lines, pp and they love him. As do about 10 other teams who have called, including Vernon, Victoria, Penticton and others from BCHL.

If you think 7 points in 17 games as an underager is not good, it simply again shows how little you know about the league. Almost to a player they come in, adjust to the travel, style of play, and have strong second halfs. Add in the 2 injuries and it is safe to say he is just fine+. Puting up fake points really helped Aggosta as he put up good pts on D and never dressed a game last year. And yes, they told him to come on in, you are ready.. That worked out well. Points have zero to do with being ready or not

Not 1 F they have coming in is better. Ask Jim Montgomery who the only F he has been trying to get for the past 6 weeks is...

UNH blew it and has egg on their face. they can spin it however they want but they acted wrong and lost another quality kid.

If you really believe that it was a simple, we have your best interest at heart, lets talk about playing another year than yes, Santa just left.. No kid would walk away under that scenerio. You dont grasp the concept of dishonest.

I also hope you get the fact that you are simply assuming and making up scenerios off of that. You have not spoken to anyone and to keep making statements like they are facts or even close is silly at best, silly

dover4345
12-25-2011, 11:21 AM
Dover, you can write a sermon for 65 paragraphs and at the end of the day, you still have no idea what you are talking about. None...

I did in fact talk with the Tri City coach(about other things as well) and I know exactly what was done/said and to say there is a huge disconnect and that it was not straight forward and dishonest is a fact, not a he said she said. He is top 2 lines, pp and they love him. As do about 10 other teams who have called, including Vernon, Victoria, Penticton and others from BCHL.

If you think 7 points in 17 games as an underager is not good, it simply again shows how little you know about the league. Almost to a player they come in, adjust to the travel, style of play, and have strong second halfs. Add in the 2 injuries and it is safe to say he is just fine+. Puting up fake points really helped Aggosta as he put up good pts on D and never dressed a game last year. And yes, they told him to come on in, you are ready.. That worked out well. Points have zero to do with being ready or not

Not 1 F they have coming in is better. Ask Jim Montgomery who the only F he has been trying to get for the past 6 weeks is...

UNH blew it and has egg on their face. they can spin it however they want but they acted wrong and lost another quality kid.

If you really believe that it was a simple, we have your best interest at heart, lets talk about playing another year than yes, Santa just left.. No kid would walk away under that scenerio. You dont grasp the concept of dishonest.

I also hope you get the fact that you are simply assuming and making up scenerios off of that. You have not spoken to anyone and to keep making statements like they are facts or even close is silly at best, silly

Hokydad- please stop referring to him as an "underager"...it is simply showing how litte YOU know about the league. You are going on based off of what you THINK he will do in the future- I am going off of what he HAS done. I know this--the UNH staff feels they will get a better player with that money. FACT. That is not an assumption. Call them dishonest and liars if youd liked--but us with common sense know there is no reason to lie to the kid. If they felt he was good enough plans wouldnt have changed- simple as that. Clearly a tough pill for you to swallow. Merry Xmas!

I will look for MV at the NHL draft because CLEARLY this is a HUGE loss for UNH. He is TOP RECRUIT that has the scouts salivating. I will also look for his committment to a school FAR BETTER than UNH--How long did it take Gaudreau- a top recruit to committ after he decommitted from NU? 1 week? Was on BU/BC/UNH/UVM campus that same week? That is how TOP RECRUITS get treated. Not holding my breath for the draft or the committment.

Darius
12-25-2011, 11:27 AM
"no idea what you are talking about"
"how little you know"
"Wrong. "
"loud mouthed know it all fool"
"What have you accomplished?"
"you need a lesson"
"You my friend just dont get the game"
"always has to right"
"no clue"

(a player) "accomplished nothing"
"average recruits with low ceilings"

Once an informative thread this has degenerated into not in the spirit of the season sniping. Everyone on this board is a human being with a right to express their opinions. Do y'all have children? Would you want to be reading this drivel about them? Merry Christmas(?). Jeez.

carltonbarrett
12-25-2011, 11:34 AM
I wonder what UNH would have done if they were fortunate enough to land Destry Straight, who has only scored 1-1-2 in 18 games at BC. He probably could play a top-6 role at UNH right now, especially with Speelman out indefinitely - but would they have even brought him in? Or would they have asked him to defer until he was ready to make an immediate impact (as they did Laleggia - who would have stepped right into the UNH line-up if Umile hadn't prefered mediocre, upperclass defenders like Campanale & Beck)?

BC decided to bring Straight in on schedule. Would have prefered he play another year in juniors? As stated above he is skating on a lower line and has managed just two points. Did they prefer he develop at BC? We're they fearful that he might play MJ or look at other colleges if they asked him to defer? Whatever the reason, BC decided to add talent (if not necessarily readiness) to the roster and guarantee Straight's spot on the club.

Long story short UNH defers, Laleggia is a Pioneer. Straight comes directly to BC to develop and I'd bet he has a BIG sophomore year and a great career. Two different recruiting strategies, two different programs...

Freshman shouldn't be expected to make immediate major impacts at top programs. Some do and that's a fantastic bonus. The fact that UNH feels like they absolutely need immediate FR help highlights their recent recruiting issues.

If I recall correctly, Straight was scheduled to arrive next year but was moved up a year after Atkinson and Hayes left a year early for the pros. Most articles I read stated that if he came this year, it would be slow going, but that he would have a big sophmore year. So it sounds like he may have been better off taking another year in the BCHL, but BC ended up needing him because of defections. As far as players going Major Junior, it happens to every school, BC lost Ryan Hayes and Kenny Ryan just before they showed up, then you have guys leaving early all the time like Gerbe, Todd Perry, Samuelsson, Pineault and even guys pretty much getting kicked off the team like O'Hanley and Motherwell. Good teams still get by with the remaining talent.

WildShawn
12-25-2011, 11:46 AM
Dover, I definitely see where you're coming from, and appreciate the numbers/research. The team today has taken a sharp drop off from even 08. I also maintain that the accolades, which are important, were inflated with that team, and while trying not to be offensive of the individual players, the same players may not have won similar awards earlier in the decade while the talent league and nation wide was a lot deeper than 2008 and especially now. I would kill for a team like 2007-08 at this point, that's for sure.

Hokydad
12-25-2011, 12:40 PM
Hokydad- please stop referring to him as an "underager"...it is simply showing how litte YOU know about the league. You are going on based off of what you THINK he will do in the future- I am going off of what he HAS done. I know this--the UNH staff feels they will get a better player with that money. FACT. That is not an assumption. Call them dishonest and liars if youd liked--but us with common sense know there is no reason to lie to the kid. If they felt he was good enough plans wouldnt have changed- simple as that. Clearly a tough pill for you to swallow. Merry Xmas!

I will look for MV at the NHL draft because CLEARLY this is a HUGE loss for UNH. He is TOP RECRUIT that has the scouts salivating. I will also look for his committment to a school FAR BETTER than UNH--How long did it take Gaudreau- a top recruit to committ after he decommitted from NU? 1 week? Was on BU/BC/UNH/UVM campus that same week? That is how TOP RECRUITS get treated. Not holding my breath for the draft or the committment.

The problem Dover is that you talk with zero information or facts, simply make up stuff and assume that it is correct. Because you have common sense, you know there is no reason to lie and thus that makes it a fact. Oh, ok. What a tool

If you call 10 USHL coaches today and ask them 3 questions, their answers will be as follows
1. What is an over ager.... 1991 birthyear
2. What is an age on player... 1992 birthyear
3. What is an underager... 1993-1995

Again, you have never spoken to a single coach but you know what they think and say. Are you a broad by any chance?

You know that UNH feels they will get a better player, ok... Tool
How is that not an asumption? Tool=moron

Us with common sense know that there is no reason to lie? Seeing that you clearly dont have any, case closed. Call the tri city coach and tell him he is a liar as well and has no common sense. Than have him call Jayden Schwartz and tell him he is not ready for CC. The same coach who coached him and sent him there. The same coach who told Dean Blaise, the WJC coach and HC at UNO that MV is 100% ready and that is why he has been invited there, as well as to CC, Denver etc. All schools and teams light years ahead of u nh

C-H-C
12-25-2011, 12:50 PM
"no idea what you are talking about"
"how little you know"
"Wrong. "
"loud mouthed know it all fool"
"What have you accomplished?"
"you need a lesson"
"You my friend just dont get the game"
"always has to right"
"no clue"

(a player) "accomplished nothing"
"average recruits with low ceilings"

Once an informative thread this has degenerated into not in the spirit of the season sniping. Everyone on this board is a human being with a right to express their opinions. Do y'all have children? Would you want to be reading this drivel about them? Merry Christmas(?). Jeez.

On-the-record background information and some perspective:
"Mike Vecchione's Decommitment from UNH: Part I"
"Mike Vecchione's Decommitment from UNH: Part II"

Nick Papagiorgio
12-25-2011, 03:40 PM
Bend over, you want a name? Here is one big one. NHLer Ben Lovejoy. Have a nice day.

dover4345
12-25-2011, 04:15 PM
Bend over, you want a name? Here is one big one. NHLer Ben Lovejoy. Have a nice day.

Nick-are you serious? I appreciate you bringing this kid up because it supports my argument. BC did not develop Lovejoy--he went to Dartmouth, remember? C'mon man....

dover4345
12-25-2011, 04:53 PM
[QUOTE=Hokydad;5303981]
If you call 10 USHL coaches today and ask them 3 questions, their answers will be as follows
1. What is an over ager.... 1991 birthyear
2. What is an age on player... 1992 birthyear
3. What is an underager... 1993-1995

Again, you have never spoken to a single coach but you know what they think and say. Are you a broad by any chance?

Hokydad--for someone that says I "assume" alot you seem to make alot of assumptions about me. This quote above is something that shows how much you will like and make s*it up just to support your argument. People in the hockey world are well aware that and overage player in someone in their 20 year old year and an underage player is someone in their 15 year old year. Ever heard of the exceptional player rule up in the CHL that allows players to play MJ in their UNDERAGE year. here is an article from usahockey's website that will clear this matter up. I am dying to hear your response in regards to how you completely made the above statement up.

DeAngelo had verbally committed to Boston University, prior to making his choice to play in the OHL. The talented defenseman follows in the footsteps of Nick Ebert and Brady Vail, who left the Waterloo Black Hawks for the OHL, after playing in the USHL as 15-year-olds.

The USHL has seen an influx over the last few years of what I would call “under-age” players playing in the league, particularly after the success of Seth Ambroz. Some can handle it at that young age and DeAngelo was certainly one of those players.

For the record: The OHL prevents players under the age of 16 from playing in the league, unless that player is granted a special exemption, as John Tavares and this year’s first-overall pick Aaron Ekblad were granted. The USHL has no such rule.

By allowing young teenagers the opportunity to play in the USHL, the league runs the risk of losing those players after one year. As great as the USHL is, there are very few elite players that would choose to play in the league for three seasons. Not only do the USHL teams potentially miss out on keeping their under-agers for more than one season, the colleges that have obtained commitments from those players risk that young man never making it to campus.

I could find plenty more articles/rules to prove I am correct... Please show me ONE, just ONE--that states your definition is correct. You are nothing but a bitter phony.

Hokydad
12-25-2011, 05:59 PM
[QUOTE=Hokydad;5303981]
If you call 10 USHL coaches today and ask them 3 questions, their answers will be as follows
1. What is an over ager.... 1991 birthyear
2. What is an age on player... 1992 birthyear
3. What is an underager... 1993-1995

Again, you have never spoken to a single coach but you know what they think and say. Are you a broad by any chance?

Hokydad--for someone that says I "assume" alot you seem to make alot of assumptions about me. This quote above is something that shows how much you will like and make s*it up just to support your argument. People in the hockey world are well aware that and overage player in someone in their 20 year old year and an underage player is someone in their 15 year old year. Ever heard of the exceptional player rule up in the CHL that allows players to play MJ in their UNDERAGE year. here is an article from usahockey's website that will clear this matter up. I am dying to hear your response in regards to how you completely made the above statement up.

DeAngelo had verbally committed to Boston University, prior to making his choice to play in the OHL. The talented defenseman follows in the footsteps of Nick Ebert and Brady Vail, who left the Waterloo Black Hawks for the OHL, after playing in the USHL as 15-year-olds.

The USHL has seen an influx over the last few years of what I would call �under-age� players playing in the league, particularly after the success of Seth Ambroz. Some can handle it at that young age and DeAngelo was certainly one of those players.

For the record: The OHL prevents players under the age of 16 from playing in the league, unless that player is granted a special exemption, as John Tavares and this year�s first-overall pick Aaron Ekblad were granted. The USHL has no such rule.

By allowing young teenagers the opportunity to play in the USHL, the league runs the risk of losing those players after one year. As great as the USHL is, there are very few elite players that would choose to play in the league for three seasons. Not only do the USHL teams potentially miss out on keeping their under-agers for more than one season, the colleges that have obtained commitments from those players risk that young man never making it to campus.

I could find plenty more articles/rules to prove I am correct... Please show me ONE, just ONE--that states your definition is correct. You are nothing but a bitter phony.

I am sure you could. Because that is what get a lifers that have zero connections and or contacts do. They read articles and newspaper clippings

I am a bitter phoney? You are the guy on here trashing an 18 year old kid. Next time you see his dad, say hi to him....

"of what I would call underage players". Wow, your definition is gospel.

The USHL is a college development league dope, allowing underage players in and than leaving has 100% nothing to do with keeping them. they leave for draft status. If they are college bound, they can't/wont leave. Your level of fringe ignorance is mind boggling. That is what google and no life will do for you\

I just texted a coach from ushl and asked him what birthyears are considered under age this year. Respone, 93-95. I told him he was wrong...

I love the theory that it somehow hurts ushl by letting underage players in. This lets kids from OHL to play there when they cant back home, thus getting a jump on them. in your world that is a negative as you feel it is better to keep out and never get a shot at. never would have had a shot at Oleksiak without it.


"As great as the USHL is, there are very few elite players that would choose to play in the league for three seasons" Really? Your ignorance is overwelming after a while. Might have something to do with the fact they either go to college or MJ at 18, you are so ignorant. USHL is in fact a young players elite dev league and that is why they stay a couple years and move on. Not retiring at 20 like OHL meatheads

Just like draft lists, I dont waste time talking about articles, written by outsiders

Darius
12-25-2011, 06:11 PM
On-the-record background information and some perspective:
"Mike Vecchione's Decommitment from UNH: Part I"
"Mike Vecchione's Decommitment from UNH: Part II"Always good and much appreciated.

Nick Papagiorgio
12-25-2011, 06:59 PM
Nick-are you serious? I appreciate you bringing this kid up because it supports my argument. BC did not develop Lovejoy--he went to Dartmouth, remember? C'mon man....

You didn't specify where they developed later on. Would you agree it is safe to assume Lovejoy would have developed at BC just as he did at Dartmouth? To be honest it is tough to figure out what points you are trying to make. Hokydad and Dan are ripping you a new one every other post.

"What big money players have they brought in, sat in the stands for an entire season and had them develop later in their careers? Please give me a name?"

dover4345
12-25-2011, 07:12 PM
You didn't specify where they developed later on. Would you agree it is safe to assume Lovejoy would have developed at BC just as he did at Dartmouth? To be honest it is tough to figure out what points you are trying to make. Hokydad and Dan are ripping you a new one every other post.

"What big money players have they brought in, sat in the stands for an entire season and had them develop later in their careers? Please give me a name?"

Nick- not trying to be an *** here, but I clearly meant--What big money players did BC bring in, sit in stands, and then develop them later in their careers. BC did not develop Lovejoy. And no, I do not think his career would have ended up the same because BC was not playing him. He would have festered away there. Dartmouth gave him an opportunity and it paid off. And Hokydad is simply one of those guys that thinks he wins arguments by yelling louder. I show evidence---he just states that hes a hockey big wig with tons of connections and I am supposed to just believe him--he shows ZERO evidence. Watch---I am going to post more evidence that stats what an UNDER-AGE player really is. He will tell me I m wrong because he says so.

dover4345
12-25-2011, 07:26 PM
Hokydad--I did not write that article nor do I care what argument it makes--I posted it mearly because it shows that a 15 year old is an underage player. Not an 18 year old that has already graduated high school. I dont believe that you called a USHL coach and he confirmed your argument. SHOW ME EVIDENCE--show me ONE person that has stated that a 18 year high school graduate is an underage player---just ONE. I dont believe that you have a ton of hockey connections. I dont believe that you texted a USHL coach who confirmed that the only players of age in the USHL are 92's...Please do not try to convince me--just show me. Here are other people referring to 15 year olds as under-agers...probably a bunch of people that have no clue what they are talking about right?

"Hailing from New Jersey, Nick Ebert is a player who has been in the Radar for some time. One of the original underage players in the USHL, Ebert made his debut in 2009-2010 with the Waterloo Blackhawks, and despite some early expected struggles...."

"He broke into the OHL after gaining "exceptional player" status at the age of 14, allowing the Oshawa Generals to select him in the OHL Priority Draft as an underage player in 2005. Tavares was named the Canadian Hockey League (CHL) Rookie of the Year in 2006 and CHL Player of the Year in 2007, a year in which he broke Wayne Gretzky's OHL record of 70 goals in one season."

On Ambroz as a 15 year old--NHL scout--knows nothing right? “He’s an outstanding underage player with a very bright future,” NHL scout Jack Barzee told NHL.com. “He’s good at all facets of the game and has them down pretty well.”


Ok--I think I have done my part in showing you that MANY people in the hockey circles define a 15 year old as an under age player--please show me someone, anyone, referring to an 18 year old as an underage player. Underage players are 15 turning 16...overage players are 20 turning 21...Tool...