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Hokydad
12-18-2011, 02:08 PM
Well- it does appear that the Admissions department is playing king to atheltics at the moment- not cetain a new coach is going to change that.

I do recall the deferral- but his decommitment came only after TVR was signed, and it was the tussle over who would man the point on the PP what came to mind - looks like Laleggia is doing well currently in his Frosh campaign, TVR as well. TVR also has a younger brother-- but who knows the real reason why? TVR is a solid pick up, despite the resume that is heavily in favor of Laleggia.

Hockeydad-- nobody stated that MV cound not get into UNH- G.A was referring to the UNH faithful that was making general excuses- but whatever- hope that MV's new school gives him exactly what he's looking for and that UNH can use the $ wisely.

I know.... I also know of several kids playing there and will so next two years who did on line classes and played jrs. My point was that I dont believe for a second that UNH has any isues with getting kids in if they are clearinghouse passed.

FiveHole12
12-18-2011, 04:04 PM
Would we rather UNH pull the plug on their commitments, like BC did with Teffenworth? I would think that woud be worse from a perception standpoint (given BC pension for commiting scholarhsips to kids that probably still have their moms making their lunch and putting their clothes out for them) than asking a recruit, even a good one, to play another yr- so that he can get the ice time you think he deserves as well as impact your program to the degree you think he is capable of.
Certainly don't want to go that route. You can see the results... BC hockey is going down the tubes.

dover4345
12-18-2011, 06:01 PM
Sorry dover, but it's clear you're opinion is either biased or you're not paying attention. First of all, I have a hard time giving credit to the coaching staff for 'committing' players who don't show up to school. Part of the recruiting process is understanding what your school's admission standards are when you're recruiting. I can't believe that the new admission's director didn't make those standards clear when he was hired (standards, which I personally agree seem far to stringent and have hurt the program ). The coaching staff needs to recruit based on the standards in place. When recruit after recruit is passed over by admissions an adjustment needs to be made and it hasn't been.

I coach and coordinate recruiting for a DI sport at an academic university. I could recruit a full team of elite prospects who don't make the admissions cut - but what good would that do me?



Are you following the program? The last season Coach McCloskey was here the forward group consisted of Haydar, C. Hemingway, Collins, Gare, Busch, Prudden, Saviano, Abbott, Caron, Calendar, Martz, Aiken. The current group is Moses, Sorkin, Goumas, Downing, Henrion, Block, Thrush, Burke, Borisenok, Speelman, McCarey, Silengo, Camper, Pavelski. What rosters are you looking at?

Last year's roster with Thompson, Sislo and DeSimone is still nowhere near as talented as the 2001-02 team. You may not miss the rosters that had THREE scoring lines and a young, talented line paying its dues defensively - but I do! Moses, Sorkin and Goumas is a THIRD line on those teams.



I hope the coaching staff doesn't make these excuses. UNH hardly plays in a barn - the Whitt is a great arena and certainly remains as one of the best facilities in college hockey. If UNH coaches can't recruit competitively based on the condition of the Whittemore Center than they should all be fired immediately...



When early recruiting the onus falls on the coaching staff to make projections. Clearly, if this is the UNH coaching staffs opinion on Vecchione's development than they failed miserable with their projections. Vecchione was not even recruited that early - he committed as a HS senior. If UNH commits Vecchione and tells him to play one year in the USHL, I'd imagine they projected him to be ready by that point. If they didn't they should have asked him to play two years immediately. At best this shows poor projection of skills by Borek and the staff.

Saviano came in a year earlier than I imagine they would have liked. He played 16 games and scored 1-1--2. He followed that up with 27, 39 and 49 point seasons. Vecchione would have been talented enough to play next season and the development curve would have been good for him down the road. Consider it playing up in age group - play older kids, better players and you'll develop faster. But I guess they'd rather hold those 4th line spots for the Pavelski's or the world...

Bottom line is you can only fairly judge Borek and the staff for the players that get to campus. I don't care who they 'commit' if they never play for UNH. Learn the landscape, understand the hurdles your university and program present and bust your ***** to get the best players you possibly can. Unfortunately for UNH, somewhere in that process there is a major disconnect.

You can deny it all you want - but when kids are constantly being deferred, denied admissions, decommitting for other schools/major junior/BCHL or being kicked off the team (Dries) are they really doing their job as recruiters?

Finally, I give Borek and the staff ZERO CREDIT for replacing talented recruits that got away with players who lack talent and upside simply to fill roster space. If you don't think a player can compete at this level - you shouldn't bring them in, period. For years, BC would play with limited roster size - I can only assume that was because they felt they'd rather carry a smaller roster than offer scholarship money and roster spots to players they didn't believe in. Maybe less desperate grabs to use money and roster space would have opened up room for Vecchione, etc.

I'll stand by my opinion that modern recruiting has passed this staff by. Changes need to be made - certainly in method and potentially in personnel. It's simply necessary to sustain the recent success of the program. Umile ignored more pressing issues when he hired Torterella over a younger assistant with the energy, passion and ability to relate to young players that is necessary to recruit today.

Personally, I'd love to trade assistant coaching staffs with Brown when they make the trip up to Durham. That would be the same Brown staff who recruited the current leading scorer in the USHL (as a '93). I wonder if he'd be admitted to UNH...

This post is comical and coming from somone who CLEARLY does not understand the current landscape of college hockey. You recruit for a D1 sport? which sport might I ask? Do they commit to players in 8th and 9th grade? Do they give them roster spots not knowing their academical potential? Your response to that will certainly be--"well, dont recruit them if you dont know their academical potential." Well, then you will miss the boat on the top recruits. When you recruit players at the age that college hockey recruiters are being forced to, then you dont get to know those answers until it is late in the game. You take chances on players--thats the game, and this problem with kids decommitting is NOT in the least exclusive to UNH. But you probably only follow one team and have no clue what is going on with everyone else.

You bring up McCloskey's last group of forwards---No NHL players in that group. 2 NHL contracts (Hemingway/Haydar) vs. 3 just last season in Desimone, Sislo, and Thompson. So because that group won 1 more NCAA game than last years group it means they are that much better? come on... On this years group of forwards, Sorkin WILL sign an NHL deal before he leaves, and I believe Downing has a legit shot...Maybe even Moses...so I dont see it being that big of a talent drop off. Lanny Gare was an ECHL player, same for the majority of those guys---the coaching staff simply got alot of miles out of them---but its hardly like they were ALOT more talented. If they were so "talented" they would have signed pro deals. Its boreks job to bring in talent, not get the most out of them--that falls on DU.

Also--you bring up Borek on projecting Vecchione---I got news for you---Borek did not recruit him. But you knew that?

I also never said that UNH doesnt have a nice rink...It is a great place to play. But it is not better than BU anymore. In the late 90's, early 2000's, UNH stole recruits from BU because they played in a crap rink and we had a good one. I truly believe if BU was in Walter Brown then Wesley Myron would have came to UNH. Alot of good UNH players in Mccloskeys time here chose UNH over BU--that probably wouldnt happen now...with our without him...facilities sell...

dover4345
12-18-2011, 06:08 PM
same league collins played in but better. that was the comparison

Hokydad--your clearly close to Vecchione and i am sure hes a good kid. But my money is on the the fact that he does not end up in NCAA hockey next season. If he does, it will not be at a top school---and if it is--he will be paying alot more than he would have at UNH. Also---Mass Highschool hockey is NOT GOOD. It has gotten ALOT worse in the last 10-15 years. All the top kids are in the USHL, NTDP, Preps, and EJHL---staying in local highschool does not happen much anymore. It is nowhere near the league it was when collins played.

dover4345
12-18-2011, 06:16 PM
Regarding MV and Mass HS hockey....look at Harvard. Colin Blackwell's having an impact as a frosh with no USHL time. He and MV shared CC MVP last year....if I'm MV and I see what Colin's doing, there's no way I'm waiting another full year. Barring injury he'll be ready for D1 hockey in 2012-13.

Blackwell is doing great at Harvard, which would lead one to think he would be doing even better in the USHL? No? Why is MV not doing well in the USHL? Ever think that because MV was the senior and the captain that he got the accolades and benefitted from playing with two even better players in Collier and Fitzgerald? hmmm??? Why is he not doing well without them? Blackwell did not play with guys like those two...

dover4345
12-18-2011, 06:22 PM
Greg, I am curious as to what a savvy recruiter like you would do to evaluate 8th and 9th graders on their ability to get into UNH?

Let me guess---dont recruit them? Then they would have to listen to people like you whine that they no longer get the top recruits.

And i NEVER stated that UNH's rink was a negative. But it is no longer ELITE like it used to be. UNH fans are CLEARLY not OK with just making NCAA tournament after NCAAA tournament---You want to be the BEST---like BC and BU, right? But your facilities arent even CLOSE. They were for a bit, but not anymore my friend. Yeah sure, if they are recruiting a kid against providence/merrimack/etc then yes, the rink is a positive. But if UNH wants the best players they will have to fish in the same pond as BU, BC, Denver, Nodak, Minny, Michigan---right? Can you honestly sit there at your computer and tell me UNH's facilities compete with those places?

Im dying to hear that response---truly cant wait to hear your recruiting philosophies.

WIrinkrat
12-18-2011, 07:15 PM
Greg, I am curious as to what a savvy recruiter like you would do to evaluate 8th and 9th graders on their ability to get into UNH?

Im dying to hear that response---truly cant wait to hear your recruiting philosophies.

Didn't ask me, but I'd say it's fairly simple. I'd be re-evaluating them each year to make sure they were still on track, and taking steps to get them on track if they weren't. If by 11th grade we'd be making decisions on whether they needed PG time or if they were a lost cause in which case I'd still have plenty of time to move on and wouldn't have to take the last of the leftovers.

But that's just me.

Carmine Scarpaglia
12-18-2011, 07:16 PM
I admit I never saw him play but I know that...he had the skills to be an effective college player.

So you've never seen him yet you are able to scout him and make the statement that you know what skills he has and that he would have been an effective college player?

dover4345
12-18-2011, 08:56 PM
Didn't ask me, but I'd say it's fairly simple. I'd be re-evaluating them each year to make sure they were still on track, and taking steps to get them on track if they weren't. If by 11th grade we'd be making decisions on whether they needed PG time or if they were a lost cause in which case I'd still have plenty of time to move on and wouldn't have to take the last of the leftovers.

But that's just me.

What if they mess up their senior years, like white and reid? What do you do then? You got it all figured out, so please enlighten us all?

Hokydad
12-18-2011, 09:10 PM
Blackwell is doing great at Harvard, which would lead one to think he would be doing even better in the USHL? No? Why is MV not doing well in the USHL? Ever think that because MV was the senior and the captain that he got the accolades and benefitted from playing with two even better players in Collier and Fitzgerald? hmmm??? Why is he not doing well without them? Blackwell did not play with guys like those two...

ith all due respect, you are simply talking out of your rear end and making crap up./ Have you seen him play a single game in USHL? Have you talked toa single coach in USHL? Both Westside and Vernon from BCHL made pretty substantial offers to Tri City this week, thinky Tri City was out of play offs, to try and get him, mostly cash.

He is doing very well and was top 2 line/ppp guy for them. He has been fighting injuries since Buc Bowl. I love his two linemates from last year as players but not for a second do I feel they are better players. Not one Hockey East school made a single offer for CB last year, another playr I love to watch play.

I have spoken to the Tri City coach probably 10 times and he said he was their top player at their camp and when healthy, top 3 at least on team.

Yes MV was the sr captain and was a 93, BC is still in hs and is older than him. Went to Delbarton game yesterday and I will say it again, if you cant dominate there, zero-50 chance of dominating in USHL

More kids coming from CC than preps and jrs to Hockey east. CM, MC and CM alone have placed about 10-12 in last 2/3 years. Remember, these kids are 16-18, not 20 year olds heading off to be fillers in college

He will be playing next year, several vistits this week alone with offers in hand, at least 2 of which are superior programs than UNH and have won natl championships, which UNH can not say.

i'zonprize
12-18-2011, 09:25 PM
CHC has a great write-up on the UNH Blog on the trials and tribulations of recruiting/decommitting etc.. UNH feels that MV needs another yr- regardless of any overcommitment, it seems. MV feels as though he's ready today. Best of luck to him though.

I've been under the impression that for yrs, MA HS and the Catholic League have lost talent to Prep and Jr's- that's why a kid like Shane Eiserman and countless others leave to play in more structured more competitive leagues- Can you imagine a Tyler Kelleher type sticking it out in Longmeadow or Deerfield? Kid's 16yrs old averaging near a point a game against USHL teams TODAY. It appears that he simply would not be challenged enough locally. So, MV lighting up the local Catholic League is nothing to dismiss- but certainly can be put into perspective.

BoSox3066
12-18-2011, 10:03 PM
Blackwell is doing great at Harvard, which would lead one to think he would be doing even better in the USHL? No? Why is MV not doing well in the USHL? Ever think that because MV was the senior and the captain that he got the accolades and benefitted from playing with two even better players in Collier and Fitzgerald? hmmm??? Why is he not doing well without them? Blackwell did not play with guys like those two...

Point is from what I saw, Vecchione and Blackwell were fairly close. I think Colin was a little better, but certainly not "Mike-needs-TWO-years-in-juniors" better.

And UNH obviously thought Eiserman was pretty close to Collier and Fitzgerald....unless they're going to defer him someday too.

WIrinkrat
12-18-2011, 10:43 PM
What if they mess up their senior years, like white and reid? What do you do then? You got it all figured out, so please enlighten us all?

Show me the transcripts that verify that they were great students until their sr years and then we will talk about it. Please. Enlighten me.

WildShawn
12-18-2011, 11:59 PM
What if they mess up their senior years, like white and reid? What do you do then? You got it all figured out, so please enlighten us all?

Keep grasping at straws.

dover4345
12-19-2011, 12:53 AM
ith all due respect, you are simply talking out of your rear end and making crap up./ Have you seen him play a single game in USHL? Have you talked toa single coach in USHL? Both Westside and Vernon from BCHL made pretty substantial offers to Tri City this week, thinky Tri City was out of play offs, to try and get him, mostly cash.

He is doing very well and was top 2 line/ppp guy for them. He has been fighting injuries since Buc Bowl. I love his two linemates from last year as players but not for a second do I feel they are better players. Not one Hockey East school made a single offer for CB last year, another playr I love to watch play.

I have spoken to the Tri City coach probably 10 times and he said he was their top player at their camp and when healthy, top 3 at least on team.

Yes MV was the sr captain and was a 93, BC is still in hs and is older than him. Went to Delbarton game yesterday and I will say it again, if you cant dominate there, zero-50 chance of dominating in USHL

More kids coming from CC than preps and jrs to Hockey east. CM, MC and CM alone have placed about 10-12 in last 2/3 years. Remember, these kids are 16-18, not 20 year olds heading off to be fillers in college

He will be playing next year, several vistits this week alone with offers in hand, at least 2 of which are superior programs than UNH and have won natl championships, which UNH can not say.

Hokydad...Ok-Yes, I have seen MV. I know his game well, and i know the USHL well. Second, you said "More kids coming from CC than preps and jrs to Hockey east. CM, MC and CM alone have placed about 10-12 in last 2/3 years. Remember, these kids are 16-18, not 20 year olds heading off to be fillers in college." That is FALSE--please inform me of the 10 kids that have gone from the CC directly to Hockey East? You cant name 5 yet alone 10-12. Did you just decide to make that up in hopes that no one would notice? And we are not talking about walk-ons here that wear suits during the game. Here is my source that clearly states that not a single player went from the CC to Hockey East https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AoPLTHefMmmTdEw4QWgxUjdKLTB0MEk3VTFLdlBOa Hc&gid=2...where is your source?

Highschool hockey in Mass is not good. It is not even CLOSE to what it was 10-15 years ago. And I was at the MC/Delbarton game--We both know that is not a typical highschool game. That was the top program in New Jersey vs. the top program from Mass---and Collier scored the only goal while fitzy was hurt---put them two together and it would have been a different outcome. Those two ARE better players than MV. Both have been regarded as better players by USA Hockey. What has MV done outside of lighting up a terrible league? I am not saying he is a bad player at all--I am just saying he is unproven and needs to prove himself in the USHL this season--which he has not done thus far, hence being asked to play another year. Saying he is a top player in Tri City is not saying much--they are terrible this season and the worst team in the league. MV got a 75% scholorship at UNH--with that kind of money you need more than 9 points in the USHL to come in and contribute. No other top program will give him a 75% scholorship and bring him in next year. If he does end up at one of those other schools it will be because he is paying more money. If he was on a %25 scholorship or a 50% they probably would have brought him in next year--but when you give up big money you need those players to contribute right away---and MV is not getting it done in the USHL, which would lead one to think it wont happen in college. And who cares what he did in training camp--are you serious? Bottom line is he has 9 points in the games he has played...stop making excuses for it. If he was ready to contribute at the college level he would be producing more than a half a point a game in the USHL. If he was on a top team hed be playing 3rd or 4th line...

dover4345
12-19-2011, 01:04 AM
Show me the transcripts that verify that they were great students until their sr years and then we will talk about it. Please. Enlighten me.

Why make a stupid request like that? I know Cam Reid failed a required Math course in his senior year and then didnt complete the course in the summer. This all transpired the year before he was supposed to come. White was at a prep school--assuming his grades probably were respectable. But why make a request to see transcripts which obviously no one on this message board can produce. You think it is that unrealistic that a kids grades slip in his senior year and he gets denied admission? Why is that hard to believe? It happens all the time to kids across the country. The staff does not commit kids that they know cant get in. Surely they look at their grades and feel confident that they will get in when they commit to them. There is nothing Dick Umile or Scott Borek can do when a kid screws off in school the year before he is supposed to come in an admissions denies him.

dover4345
12-19-2011, 01:08 AM
ith all due respect, you are simply talking out of your rear end and making crap up./ Have you seen him play a single game in USHL? Have you talked toa single coach in USHL? Both Westside and Vernon from BCHL made pretty substantial offers to Tri City this week, thinky Tri City was out of play offs, to try and get him, mostly cash.

He is doing very well and was top 2 line/ppp guy for them. He has been fighting injuries since Buc Bowl. I love his two linemates from last year as players but not for a second do I feel they are better players. Not one Hockey East school made a single offer for CB last year, another playr I love to watch play.

I have spoken to the Tri City coach probably 10 times and he said he was their top player at their camp and when healthy, top 3 at least on team.

Yes MV was the sr captain and was a 93, BC is still in hs and is older than him. Went to Delbarton game yesterday and I will say it again, if you cant dominate there, zero-50 chance of dominating in USHL

More kids coming from CC than preps and jrs to Hockey east. CM, MC and CM alone have placed about 10-12 in last 2/3 years. Remember, these kids are 16-18, not 20 year olds heading off to be fillers in college

He will be playing next year, several vistits this week alone with offers in hand, at least 2 of which are superior programs than UNH and have won natl championships, which UNH can not say.

I am also beginning to think that Hokydad is Mr. Vecchione...Why on earth would you speak to tri city coach 10 times? You were also at the MC game yesterday? SO your a local guy that has spoke to Tri Cities coach 10 times this year--you have been out to the USHL this season---and you know BC and RF well enough to say they are great kids. Mr. V--you shouldnt post about your child on message boards.

Hokydad
12-19-2011, 03:55 AM
I am also beginning to think that Hokydad is Mr. Vecchione...Why on earth would you speak to tri city coach 10 times? You were also at the MC game yesterday? SO your a local guy that has spoke to Tri Cities coach 10 times this year--you have been out to the USHL this season---and you know BC and RF well enough to say they are great kids. Mr. V--you shouldnt post about your child on message boards.

Please dont talk foolish talk. Why would I speak to a coach ten times? None of your business. Same reason I have spoken to several other coaches 25 times.

I am not going to compare the 3 players in question anymore out of respect to them, all 3 being high end quality players and kids. Of course the kids getting deals from CC dont go staright to college, not many 17 year olds do. The point is they got their deals from there.

Time to move on and let the cards play out. He will be in D 1 next year, will get equal money than from UNH and will have a very good carear. UNH's loss.

You talk with little if any information. For example you make it seem like this all took place over past few eeks where in fact the changing/bs started at Buc Bowl, before any stats were up and teams still forming rosters. bait and switch, not after cetain number of games changed mind

"put them two together and it would have been a different outcome" Exhibit Q why not to go to UNH

Hokydad
12-19-2011, 04:35 AM
Just think what he would have done if not inured twice, all on a young dminded team, with coach who got fired week+ ago. new coach is more open and look for a 2nd half strong close. Which is what you would expect from first year players with 3 years eligibility.

http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/unh-recruits-update-week-4.html

You have no clue what you are talking about, and about 10 D 1 programs, several of whom are far superior to UNH on the ice and academic wise are thrilled you dont...

Ralph Baer
12-19-2011, 05:03 AM
And I was at the MC/Delbarton game If you have any comments about Drew Melanson of Delbarton, could you post them on the RPI recruit thread http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?96789-RPI-2011-12-Recruit-Thread.