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Saetia22
12-14-2011, 06:45 PM
Unfortunately, when you don't effectively recruit and you lose top-end talent late in the game thats all thats left! UNH is down this year because of poor recruiting and that doesn't appear to be changing...
I agree.. but there has got to be someone younger with more upside out there in the USHL or BCHL. I know pickings are slim, but how did wefall into this situation? How did we not pick up on needing a defenseman for next year sooner? I'm sorry, but this is hard to understand and be optimistic about.

Darius
12-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Regarding admissions - I spoke to a relative who used to work in admissions and was told that the new admissions director is the strictest the university has ever had. That they refuse to make exceptions for athletes and hold applicants to MUCH higher and different standards than many of the schools they recruit against. One example being - that if students do not take a certain number (above what is normally required) of foreign language credits they will simply not be considered. Even if their grades are great, test scores strong and they meet all necessary core credit requirements.

Lets be honest, UNH is a average to above average state university with some strong programs - it is NOT an IVY League school and the admissions officer needs to realize what role athletics can play in building a university. Let the kids who clearly meet UNH standards into school and stop pretending to be something you�re not!! A nationally successful hockey program likely results in high application numbers (at least in state and regionally) and a stronger academic student body as a whole...win/win...

Team competitiveness suffers, but it is good for the University's reputation if UNH holds athletic recruits to the same high standards as all other applicants. However, there is no excuse for the Gaudreau story if it is true. When legacies apply the Alumni Association will notify the Admissions Department. This has no bearing on how the application is judged, but it does expedite the process. Admissions and athletic team staffs should have strong working relationships. If they don't then President Huddleston needs to work with the Athletic Director and the head of the Admissions Department to improve the relationship. If something changes suddenly a coach should be able to tell a recruit that he can expedite the process to answer questions and address concerns in minutes/hours not days/weeks.

Nice job with your entire post.

CarlS
12-14-2011, 08:00 PM
Watcher - that post was good analysis on the subject.

i'zonprize
12-14-2011, 08:06 PM
Finally, and most pertinent to the Vecchione discussion, when you have 6 forwards in a class - five with lots of questions marks - you don't tell your 6th and most talented forward to defer. You may suggest it, but if they don't want to they don't defer. Umile may not like catering to the top talent to varying degrees - but in this day and age it can be necessary to win recruiting battles and ultimately games. Certainly Vecchione shouldn't have to deviate from what he was promised cause UNH has bungled its scholarship situation. Assuming that is the case here...
..:mad:

1. Great post-
2. The prioritization on who to ask to defer here is pretty confusing- You could easily ask any recruit who wouldn't 'age out' to stay back 1 more yr- But what we don't know- We don't know what the scholarship commitment is for next yr or for next. We don't know the extent of Vecchione's injury. While he played very well early- he had not been lighting it up prior to his injury either.

UNH's issue this is not what happened to O'Neil, Yandle or even Dan Kolomitis or Mr. Campbell last year or even the collection thereof - It's specifically the TRIO of Bourque, White and Reid who would ALL be Jr's today and did not show for various reasons. You would have an entirely different team, perhaps a legit National contender this yr and next had that not occured. Watcher- to his credit, who I recall stating at the time that the debackle would put UNH back 2 yrs. At this point I'm hoping that it's only 2yrs.

We don't really know much about the new recruit- one would think you could offer a 21yr old incoming Frosh something less than a full scholarship to be a roll player- hardly worth the loss of arguably one of your best forward in the next two classes.

I actually like the late pick ups of a Willows and a McDonald- they play in competitive areas and did very well- I believe we'll see both do very well at UNH as well. Although, it's noted that some late recruits have not had success - early or late commitments- still a bit of a gamble.

Unless Vecchione reconsiders- not likely- It's UNH's Scholarship $ again now- lets hope they spend it wisely.

edit- CHC has a nice write-up on the Blog on Quast/ Apparently played with Wey and Doumoulin back in '08- although he's taken a bit different path over the last 3yrs.

nhhockeyguy15
12-15-2011, 01:13 PM
You are correct but I see a distinction between guys who wanted to play Major Junior or those who had trouble with grades and the Vecchione situation. If a kid wants to chase the money or has academic issues that is, to a certain extent, beyond the school's control. But if the reports about Vecchione are correct, than he decommitted because UNH wanted him to play another year in the USHL , something that the school was in complete control of. Granted, we don't know the whole story, but I'm pretty insulted as a UNH fan to have lost a player of this caliber just so I could watch another Kevin McCarey or Scott Pavelski.

I haven't seen the reports, and if the case is correct, I think UNH is missing the boat. You can't risk losing high end talant. And you are right, I would much rather see him now, then see another lesser player for 4 years, and a player who only gets most of his career playing time in his last 2 years, b/c the coachs reward those upperclassman who stay and work hard. Even if they have a more talented playing who is freshman 18/19 years old.

JB
12-15-2011, 01:17 PM
I haven't seen the reports, and if the case is correct, I think UNH is missing the boat. You can't risk losing high end talant. And you are right, I would much rather see him now, then see another lesser player for 4 years, and a player who only gets most of his career playing time in his last 2 years, b/c the coachs reward those upperclassman who stay and work hard. Even if they have a more talented playing who is freshman 18/19 years old.

There seems to be a talent evaluation problem these days. Thrush, who has played well for a Freshman, (I would like more scoring) was pulled in a year early. Why is there all this pushing out pulling in with UNH, I don't check with a fine tooth comb but other programs don't seem to have as much movement with recruits.

nhhockeyguy15
12-15-2011, 01:54 PM
This is ridiculous. ANOTHER '91?!?!!?!?? What is happening?? This is unbelievable.

It looks like UNH is starting to do what UML & Merrimack does. They bring in classes that are built around 20-22 year old freshman. So that when they are Jr & Sr's they are more physically mature then most other players around them. Yeah I said it. That is why both Lowell and Merrimack are as good as they are. Look at the rosters and the ages. Granted Merrimack has a really good goalie, but he also happens to be a 21 year old Sr (22 on Jan 2). Oh yeah, there are only 3 other players on the roster that are younger then him, based on the ages at the start of the season (not based on actual birthdates), 2 of those are 20 year old freshman, and 1 is a sophmore. Of the Jr. & Sr's only one of those classes have a player younger then him and it is one of the goalies, and he is a JR and only younger by 6 months. Looks like UNH is just trying to push back all the high end tallant so that they will all be 24-25 year old Seniors.

nhhockeyguy15
12-15-2011, 02:20 PM
this is the ESPN High School story that ran on the website, not sure if anyone has seen it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/high-school/post/_/id/12571/vecchione-not-what-id-committed-to

New Hampshire 'Cats Fan
12-15-2011, 02:50 PM
this is the ESPN High School story that ran on the website, not sure if anyone has seen it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/high-school/post/_/id/12571/vecchione-not-what-id-committed-to

This is really frustrating to read about how the UNH coaching staff handled the situation.

Hokydad
12-15-2011, 03:30 PM
very classy kid, took the high road

WildShawn
12-15-2011, 04:09 PM
All the best to the kid. Was looking forward to seeing him come to UNH and hopefully do what Collins and Saviano did before him.

Another head scratcher coming from the 9th Ivy.

Snively65
12-15-2011, 05:29 PM
EJHL players making the jump to NCAA top-lines (i.e. Paul Thompson and Bobby Butler) are the exception unfortunately.

Bobby Butler notched 14+ minutes and three of the Senators' 48 shots on the B's last night, after getting benched the previous game for supposedly not shooting enough.

Sadly, this thead is getting a lot more attention than the UNH seasonal thread. :(

But, there have been some excellent posts from many diehard Wildcats fans. Thanks to all of you.

carltonbarrett
12-15-2011, 05:42 PM
Even with the success that UNH has had recently, it seems like they've been slowly morphing into a one line team, whereas 10 years ago they would regularly skate 2-3 lines that could create offense.

scoreboard
12-15-2011, 06:54 PM
http://itemlive.com/articles/2011/12/15/sports/sports04.txt

"One of the problems is they overcommitted. They wanted to push me back." "UNH is a great school with a great program; they just overcommitted," Vecchione said.

I killed Mike Eaves for doing this, and now we can join that lamentable crew. Except, of course, Eaves over-recruited good players who won a National Championship, while we over-recruited 4th liners. And, of course, our recruiting coordinator committed NCAA recruiting violations that led to two years probation.

UNH - perfecting the loss of high end recruits while trying to overcompensate with "just another guys."

Good for Mike, best of luck to you.

Agreed, wish him the best of luck. Honestly, you can't blame him. They asked a top recruit to defer for a year while the current team is their weakest in many years. That doesn't work.

Greg Ambrose
12-15-2011, 07:13 PM
http://itemlive.com/articles/2011/12/15/sports/sports04.txt

"One of the problems is they overcommitted. They wanted to push me back." "UNH is a great school with a great program; they just overcommitted," Vecchione said.

I killed Mike Eaves for doing this, and now we can join that lamentable crew. Except, of course, Eaves over-recruited good players who won a National Championship, while we over-recruited 4th liners. And, of course, our recruiting coordinator committed NCAA recruiting violations that led to two years probation.

UNH - perfecting the loss of high end recruits while trying to overcompensate with "just another guys."

Good for Mike, best of luck to you.

Being the good Lynner that I am, I subscribe to the local paper. When I sat down to spend my five good minutes with it - crime beat, obits, and sports - I was flabbergasted to see that the Vecchione issue was featured. Knowing the Item as I do, there is no way that the writer sought out this story. Vecchione is from Saugus, so the impetus for the story might have come from a family or friend, or it could have come from his former coach and Saugus native, Chris Serino. I am a very cynical person when it comes to this stuff, so I would opt for the latter, not the former. Not exactly sure what the motivation was, but it doesn't make UNH look good, that's for sure.

This leads me to the larger picture. I talked to a good friend of mine last night, someone as passionate about the Wildcats as me and everybody else on this board. His take, and I am beginning to agree, is that things are going to go from bad to worse. It appears that we have the gang that can't shoot straight phenomenon here. Maybe we have it all wrong and Vechionne wasn't the highest rated forward in the class of 2012, but even if he wasn't, he was promised that his path to UNH would be a short one. But now, at the mid point of his junior hockey year he os being asked to slog it out for another full season in Nebraska. Doesn't wash with me. And worse, it sends the wrong message to any other player that UNH recruits and wants to park in the USHL for a year or two. Take it from one who has been in sales for his entire career, if you don't keep your word, if you backtrack, you're toast.

Also would like someone to shed some light on admissions. Apparently the school now has delusions that they can be the Michigan or Berkeley of New England. Clearly UNH has been trying to clean up their image as a top ten party school. Good for them. And there is nothing wrong with attempting to elevate the quality of the student body. But I am not quite clear why the hockey program has been singled out here. Over the years UNH Hockey has had a fabulous graduation rate, well over 90%, with several of their players, including All-Americans like Flashians and Regan, truly excelling in the classroom. Given the track record, it puzzles me no end as to why the worm has turned. It is clearly the top reason why Lassonde left as he had many offers to leave previously and always turned them down. If admission is, in fact, reluctant to balance their standards with the needs of the hockey team, I sure hope the rationale was conveyed to the athletic director and coaching staff.

i'zonprize
12-15-2011, 07:22 PM
All the best to the kid. Was looking forward to seeing him come to UNH and hopefully do what Collins and Saviano did before him.

Another head scratcher coming from the 9th Ivy.

That's for sure- thought this kid could've been the cornerstone of a strong upward trend and expressed himself with a lot of maturity. He obviously can't wait to play college hockey- boy, really sounds like UNH played the wrong hand here- what coach doesn't want that?

We have not heard from C-H-C on the matter. No doubt that he's probably digging up a story.

Felger
12-15-2011, 07:45 PM
Starting to feel like the mid-1980's. A shifting national landscape in college hockey, and an aging coaching staff that is losing touch.

Carmine Scarpaglia
12-15-2011, 08:26 PM
I'm frustrated with the early commitments to players like Hill and Smith who haven't shown the promise or offensive skill we were led to believe they had.

Honest question. I'm not a guy that gets worked up with recruiting. Who "led" you to believe anything about these incoming players?


Looks like UNH is just trying to push back all the high end tallant so that they will all be 24-25 year old Seniors.

IF that is the case, it's just a terrible strategy. It's almost inconceivable that a D1 coach would try it. It's basic stuff. High-end talent doesn't stick around wasting time in the USHL or EJHL until they are 20.

i'zonprize
12-15-2011, 09:54 PM
This leads me to the larger picture. I talked to a good friend of mine last night, someone as passionate about the Wildcats as me and everybody else on this board. His take, and I am beginning to agree, is that things are going to go from bad to worse. It appears that we have the gang that can't shoot straight phenomenon here. Maybe we have it all wrong and Vechionne wasn't the highest rated forward in the class of 2012, but even if he wasn't, he was promised that his path to UNH would be a short one. But now, at the mid point of his junior hockey year he os being asked to slog it out for another full season in Nebraska. Doesn't wash with me. And worse, it sends the wrong message to any other player that UNH recruits and wants to park in the USHL for a year or two. Take it from one who has been in sales for his entire career, if you don't keep your word, if you backtrack, you're toast.

G.Ambrose- If you've been in sales that long then you know as well that that at times you need to deliver news that you may not want to and know will not go over will with your client/customer. Nobody likes it- but it's how you handle it that matters. The ethical portion of your statement comes down to intent- Did UNH intend on pushing him from the get go? Did they intend on Correale getting hurt and needing to defer? Did they expect to have to push Smith and Hill, bring in Thrush early when MV made his commitment? I don't think so, IMO. Things happened and they had to make decisions.

Would we rather UNH pull the plug on their commitments, like BC did with Teffenworth? I would think that woud be worse from a perception standpoint (given BC pension for commiting scholarhsips to kids that probably still have their moms making their lunch and putting their clothes out for them) than asking a recruit, even a good one, to play another yr- so that he can get the ice time you think he deserves as well as impact your program to the degree you think he is capable of.

Regarding your ranking comment- maybe you are right. Smith, Hill & Correalle all with 3,3 and 4yrs of Jr experience respectively, might be favored as "college ready"- vs. Vecchione- straight out of the Catholic league in MA, w/ 17games of jr experience. McDonald is a B rated skater- so--- maybe Vecchione drew the short stick on that one- of course then there is Max G. 2 yrs of jr experience-

either way- we all beleived that Mike was a solid recruit- stinks that he'll be playing somewhere else. It's up to UNH now to either re-sell him or find someone else. There is plenty of time.

PSW
12-16-2011, 09:03 AM
My guess in wanting to push Vecchione back a year has to do with the need to free up money for next year. That money would be used to go after some D. I would not be surprised if we heard something about this sooner than later..

Chevier leaving......is this what causes Vecchione situation? As we know "D" this year has been rough.... Lack of foot speed and high end skill. When Hardowa was out they put Pav's in the line up as a "D". Obviosly the coaches do not to much conifidence in Chevrier or Randall to make a impact at this point. I believe UNH is in the hunt for "D" that can make a impact next year. So to do that they need to free up as money now. Quast a older player my be able to step in. I would not be surpired is they recuit another "D" for next year. They probobly figure that are deep enough in forward for next year