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i'zonprize
07-18-2011, 08:52 PM
You have to like his mindset - but as for the injured incoming Fr, it's got to be something fairly serious. Mike Beck had a reconstruced ACL coming into his Fr. yr. and he still came in as scheduled and only suited up for 1 game Wish both Thrush and the injured all the best.

Side note. This looks and feels a lot like P. Thompson coming in early for T. Smith that left the program a bit earlier than expected. Was a tough yr for Paul- although he turned out ok...

Dan
07-19-2011, 10:50 AM
Kovacs and another player maybe recruited if they don't commit this weekend, possible big change in this years class.

Is the Casey Thrush situation the big change that was alluded to earlier in the thread...???

C-H-C
07-22-2011, 08:54 AM
More "top prospects" following the path chosen by Ryan Bourque a couple of years ago - that is, reneging on a commitment to a Hockey East school to play major junior hockey in Canada:
http://www.hockeyjournal.com/news/2011/07/21_report_recruit_shea_bypassing.php

C-H-C
07-27-2011, 08:28 PM
Update on 2012 Recruit Kyle Smith (http://easternjhl.stats.pointstreak.com/playerpage.html?playerid=3212715&seasonid=5790):
In May, Kyle Smith was drafted by the Dubuque Fighting Saints (http://www.ushldraft.com/) in the 15th round of the USHL Entry Draft.
In June, he participated in the Sioux City Musketeers' (http://blog.musketeershockey.com/?p=152) (USHL) Tryout Camp. (https://twitter.com/#!/Musketeerhockey/statuses/81864236267094016) Although he scored some points, Smith did not make the All-Star game on the final day of camp and is not on the Musketeers' 25-man active roster or affiliated list.
Last weekend, Smith played for the Junior Bruins in the EJHL's Summer Showcase Tournament. (http://easternjhl.stats.pointstreak.com/scoringleaders.html?leagueid=220&seasonid=7590) He tied for 5th in scoring with 4 goals and 2 assists in 5 games.
It looks like Kyle Smith is set to play his third season with the Junior Bruins in the 2011-12 season.

JB
07-28-2011, 12:56 PM
Update on 2012 Recruit Kyle Smith (http://easternjhl.stats.pointstreak.com/playerpage.html?playerid=3212715&seasonid=5790):
In May, Kyle Smith was drafted by the Dubuque Fighting Saints (http://www.ushldraft.com/) in the 15th round of the USHL Entry Draft.
In June, he participated in the Sioux City Musketeers' (http://blog.musketeershockey.com/?p=152) (USHL) Tryout Camp. (https://twitter.com/#!/Musketeerhockey/statuses/81864236267094016) Although he scored some points, Smith did not make the All-Star game on the final day of camp and is not on the Musketeers' 25-man active roster or affiliated list.
Last weekend, Smith played for the Junior Bruins in the EJHL's Summer Showcase Tournament. (http://easternjhl.stats.pointstreak.com/scoringleaders.html?leagueid=220&seasonid=7590) He tied for 5th in scoring with 4 goals and 2 assists in 5 games.
It looks like Kyle Smith is set to play his third season with the Junior Bruins in the 2011-12 season.

Missing the roster is not a glowing endorsement of his talent.

nhhockeyguy15
07-28-2011, 01:39 PM
Justin Kovacs was shown this morning on Heisenberg's site as heading to Western Michigan

C-H-C
07-28-2011, 01:52 PM
Justin Kovacs was shown this morning on Heisenberg's site as heading to Western Michigan
So far, no other source is confirming this but it makes sense. He's a kid from Michigan and Western Michigan now has an experienced, former NHL coach in Andy Murray. I've also read some chatter about WMU trying to get into the new National Collegiate Hockey Conference.

C-H-C
07-28-2011, 09:33 PM
One of the subplots in Northeastern's difficult summer is the story of Garrett Harr. In chronological order: Harr committed to play at NU; Cronin resigned; Harr was drafted in the 7th round by the Capitals; Harr decommits from NU. To that point, it's a story of a college coach looking out for his own interest and an amateur hockey player looking out for his.
But then came this:
"McPhee [VP/General Manager] and the Capitals told Haar that for his development they want him to begin playing college hockey in the fall, though, and are helping to find a school for the 17-year-old defenseman.
McPhee 'said that Boston College was gonna to try to get some full ride [scholarship] for me for this fall. So if that happens, then I'll be heading out to college,' said Haar, who received offers from Umass Lowell and Western Michigan for next season.
'George called [Jerry] York, the coach of Boston College last night, and I guess you could say he pumped my tires,' Haar said. 'He's helping me out a lot.' " (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capitals-insider/post/general-manager-george-mcphee-dubs-garrett-haar-the-surprise-of-washington-capitals-development-camp/2011/07/16/gIQA3sPKII_blog.html)

Doesn't it seem a little odd that the Vice President and General Manager of a professional hockey team would personally select one college program and try to get a talented NHL draft pick on to their roster? Doesn't this give the amateur player an unfair advantage over others trying to earn a scholarship and the college program an unfair advantage over others trying to recruit talented players? Of course, if McPhee was trying to negotiate a scholarship for Harr with Coach Umile, many of us would cheer - but, it still wouldn't seem right.

GoNU5
07-29-2011, 03:59 AM
One of the subplots in Northeastern's difficult summer is the story of Garrett Harr. In chronological order: Harr committed to play at NU; Cronin resigned; Harr was drafted in the 7th round by the Capitals; Harr decommits from NU. To that point, it's a story of a college coach looking out for his own interest and an amateur hockey player looking out for his.
But then came this:
"McPhee [VP/General Manager] and the Capitals told Haar that for his development they want him to begin playing college hockey in the fall, though, and are helping to find a school for the 17-year-old defenseman.
McPhee 'said that Boston College was gonna to try to get some full ride [scholarship] for me for this fall. So if that happens, then I'll be heading out to college,' said Haar, who received offers from Umass Lowell and Western Michigan for next season.
'George called [Jerry] York, the coach of Boston College last night, and I guess you could say he pumped my tires,' Haar said. 'He's helping me out a lot.' " (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capitals-insider/post/general-manager-george-mcphee-dubs-garrett-haar-the-surprise-of-washington-capitals-development-camp/2011/07/16/gIQA3sPKII_blog.html)

Doesn't it seem a little odd that the Vice President and General Manager of a professional hockey team would personally select one college program and try to get a talented NHL draft pick on to their roster? Doesn't this give the amateur player an unfair advantage over others trying to earn a scholarship and the college program an unfair advantage over others trying to recruit talented players? Of course, if McPhee was trying to negotiate a scholarship for Harr with Coach Umile, many of us would cheer - but, it still wouldn't seem right.

McPhee played for York when he was at Bowling Green, hence the connection I believe.

Nick Papagiorgio
07-29-2011, 08:56 AM
Doesn't it seem a little odd that the Vice President and General Manager of a professional hockey team would personally select one college program and try to get a talented NHL draft pick on to their roster? Doesn't this give the amateur player an unfair advantage over others trying to earn a scholarship and the college program an unfair advantage over others trying to recruit talented players? Of course, if McPhee was trying to negotiate a scholarship for Harr with Coach Umile, many of us would cheer - but, it still wouldn't seem right.

Please tell me you're joking with this whole paragraph.

1. York coached McPhee at BG.
2. York is well-known for developing prospects into NHL caliber players - they've done very well with defensemen, in fact. Washington is already quite happy with Patrick Wey's development under York.
3. Boston College generally has deeper runs into both tournaments annually and thus the young man would play a few more games per season, which is a huge knock on the college game to begin with (as opposed to the major junior route).

Everyone has to look out for their best interests. The Capitals want what is best for their prospect - they believe that is being developed by a great coach and having a bit of a longer schedule than most schools. Sounds normal to me. Haar obviously wants what is best for him and has an advisor on his side and the Capitals weighing in on this. These people do this stuff for a living and know what they are doing. A possible move from NU to BC would be an upgrade on all fronts for hockey (schedule, coaching, big games, strength and conditioning, facilities, anything else you can think of) and education.

The unfair advantage part is hilarious. Networking and connections around the hockey world are a huge part of success in recruiting. It's a great contributor to success of a college hockey coach. Every college program has this "unfair advantage" and every amateur player does as well.

C-H-C
07-29-2011, 09:05 AM
McPhee played for York when he was at Bowling Green, hence the connection I believe.
That makes sense. A former player calls his former coach and advocates on behalf of a young recruit. Probably happens a lot.

However, this situation is different. McPhee is now a top executive of a professional hockey team trying to get an amateur player a special financial package from a college and their amateur hockey program. This has the potential to create conflicts of interest that the NCAA should be avoiding:

(1) McPhee has a financial stake in what happens to his top recruit. He probably wants his investment (i.e., Garrett Harr) to develop in a particular way. What happens if McPhee thinks Harr isn't getting enough playing time under York or isn't playing an aggressive enough style? What's to prevent him from calling York and influencing how Harr is utilized? When JvR was playing for UNH, Flyers' GM Holmgren reportedly grumbled about how UNH was handling his draftee. That's probably not uncommon. However, Coach Umile wasn't beholden to Holmgren because JvR came to UNH through the conventional route (he, his family and family advisor decided on UNH).

(2) McPhee proably wants to be able to dictate when his player turns professional. What happens if McPhee decides he wants Harr to leave after his freshman year? Again, wouldn't York be beholden to McPhee (i.e., he would want McPhee to steer future draft picks to BC) and not interfere with Harr's decision?

(3) What if an executive of an NHL club decides he wants all of his draft picks (who retain amateur status) to go to one college? What's to prevent the professional team from turning a particular college program into a de facto farm team? That is, the GM of the NHL team steers all his college-eligible draft picks toward one college with the understanding that each will receive a full scholarship.

For me, this isn't about the Washington Capitals and BC in particular. The same conflicts could arise with any other NHL team and any other NCAA hockey program.

pinch
07-29-2011, 09:17 AM
That makes sense. A former player calls his former coach and advocates on behalf of a young recruit. Probably happens a lot.

However, this situation is different. McPhee is now a top executive of a professional hockey team trying to get an amateur player a special financial package from a college and their amateur hockey program. This has the potential to create conflicts of interest that the NCAA should be avoiding:

(1) McPhee has a financial stake in what happens to his top recruit. He probably wants his investment (i.e., Garrett Harr) to develop in a particular way. What happens if McPhee thinks Harr isn't getting enough playing time under York or isn't playing an aggressive enough style? What's to prevent him from calling York and influencing how Harr is utilized? When JvR was playing for UNH, Flyers' GM Holmgren reportedly grumbled about how UNH was handling his draftee. That's probably not uncommon. However, Coach Umile wasn't beholden to Holmgren because JvR came to UNH through the conventional route (he, his family and family advisor decided on UNH).

(2) McPhee proably wants to be able to dictate when his player turns professional. What happens if McPhee decides he wants Harr to leave after his freshman year? Again, wouldn't York be beholden to McPhee (i.e., he would want McPhee to steer future draft picks to BC) and not interfere with Harr's decision?

(3) What if an executive of an NHL club decides he wants all of his draft picks (who retain amateur status) to go to one college? What's to prevent the professional team from turning a particular college program into a de facto farm team? That is, the GM of the NHL team steers all his college-eligible draft picks toward one college with the understanding that each will receive a full scholarship.

For me, this isn't about the Washington Capitals and BC in particular. The same conflicts could arise with any other NHL team and any other NCAA hockey program.

It is a game of favors....teams talk to their prospects all the time about where/ how they play. This year we have seen a few leave NCAA hockey for MJ, and I am sure ALL had discussions with their NHL teams. If a drafted player is headed to college, I am guessing 95% have already signed LOI, so 'which college" they go to really doesn't crop up that often

C-H-C
07-29-2011, 09:45 AM
If McPhee (VP/General Manager Washington Capital) sat down with his draftee Garrett Harr and said all of the following, there would be no apparent conflict of interest:
"Coach York is well-known for developing prospects into NHL caliber players - they've done very well with defensemen, in fact. [We're] already quite happy with Patrick Wey's development under York. Boston College generally has deeper runs into both tournaments annually and thus [you] would play a few more games per season. Besides, not going to NU and [going] to BC would be an upgrade on all fronts for hockey (schedule, coaching, big games, strength and conditioning, facilities, anything else you can think of) and education."

The conflict arises when an executive of a professional hockey team picks up the phone and calls the coach of an amateur hockey program and says please arrange for my draft pick to receive a full scholarship from your college.

Nick Papagiorgio
07-29-2011, 09:47 AM
What's to prevent the professional team from turning a particular college program into a de facto farm team? That is, the GM of the NHL team steers all his college-eligible draft picks toward one college with the understanding that each will receive a full scholarship.

Many things.

First, the NHL GMs have zero actual control over what their unsigned draftees do. The draftees can take the GMs advice and allow them to have a say in the matter, but it's not required. If the Rangers had their way, Kreider would be signed already. But he told them to go pound sand because he wants his education and the Rangers don't want him to have it. In the end, the decision is made by the athlete and that comes from their preferences and desires and under advisement from their agent/advisor. Some GMs hate the college route. Others are ok with it. But generally speaking, I think GMs probably would prefer their kids that don't care about education or with NHL ready weight to be playing up north.

Second... With scholarship limits, you wouldn't be able to send every draftee to a college program every year.

Third... and most importantly, it's not in the college program's best interests. Why get 7th Round Johnny from Washington and 6th round Johnny from Washington and 5th round Johnny from Washington when you can get 1st round Chris from New York and 2nd round Jimmy from Toronto and 2nd round Patrick from Washington, etc? And that's also assuming that being drafted means a darn thing, which we all know it doesn't. But top college teams can build a better class picking and choosing from all over the spectrum.

Fourth, if there is a conflict of interest, that is the fault of the college coaches allowing it. If GM Joe says I want 5th round Cameron to develop his offensive game and College Coach Kevin says no I want him to work on his defensive game but he gives in to the NHL GM, he's essentially doing what he believes will not help him win. And that will not help him keep his job - he would lose more (not to mention he would show himself to be incompetent if someone else's input was working better). And then you have a situation that was built and is now razed quickly when a new coach comes in - probably under the direction from the AD that clearly would want things to be different. Most coaches have short shelf lives - except for a few titans of the industry and a few others that coach at places where mediocrity is embraced.

It's not really a realistic scenario to ever really ask. It is in no one's best interests to have something like this.

Nick Papagiorgio
07-29-2011, 09:53 AM
If McPhee (VP/General Manager Washington Capital) sat down with his draftee Garrett Harr and said all of the following, there would be no apparent conflict of interest:
"Coach York is well-known for developing prospects into NHL caliber players - they've done very well with defensemen, in fact. [We're] already quite happy with Patrick Wey's development under York. Boston College generally has deeper runs into both tournaments annually and thus [you] would play a few more games per season. Besides, not going to NU and [going] to BC would be an upgrade on all fronts for hockey (schedule, coaching, big games, strength and conditioning, facilities, anything else you can think of) and education."

The conflict arises when an executive of a professional hockey team picks up the phone and calls the coach of an amateur hockey program and says please arrange for my draft pick to receive a full scholarship from your college.

I'm sorry, I know you get upset when people question you but I have to ask... Have you been sniffing magic markers this morning?

C-H-C
07-29-2011, 10:03 AM
I'm engaging in a discussion with posters who are interested in how the recruiting process works. I don't accuse posters of being hilarious or under the influence of foreign substances. I've found that most posters enjoy the give and take of information and opinions that don't include personal attacks.

Nick Papagiorgio
07-29-2011, 10:08 AM
I'll take that as a "maybe"...

C-H-C
07-29-2011, 10:18 AM
This discussion isn't about UNH vs. BC. If Coach Umile were to take a call from a GM of an NHL team who then requested a full scholarship for one of his draftees and Coach Umile arranged for the player to come to UNH on scholarship, then I would say both the GM and Coach Umile may have engaged in a conflict of interest. Besides, it doesn't matter one lick what I think - it's the NCAA which governs the recruiting process.

RockTheWhit
07-29-2011, 10:35 AM
The unfair advantage part is hilarious. Networking and connections around the hockey world are a huge part of success in recruiting. It's a great contributor to success of a college hockey coach. Every college program has this "unfair advantage" and every amateur player does as well.
This is where the discussion should start and end imo. Probably the most important attribute a college coach or assistant brings to the table is their connections to pro, junior and prep leagues. Head over to the Northeastern thread and you'll find that exact discussion with regards to their new coach and his connections to the pros. Networking is a major part of hockey recruiting, just like it is in the business world. It might not be completely fair to everyone, but sometimes it's not what you know, it's who you know. The same McPhee-York routine that is going on now happens everyday with college coaches as they try to get their young recruits into the programs that will get them most ready for the college game. Not every coach gets to personally scout every single player they'd like to, so word-of-mouth is what gets players from point A to point B on a regular basis. The mistake McPhee made was not talking to York about Haar, it was announcing to the press that he was talking to York about Haar.

C-H-C
07-29-2011, 10:58 AM
Here's an informative article (courtesy of "redhead18" on the UVM thread) on the current status of John Gaudreau, a fourth-round draft pick of the Calgary Flames who is looking for a place to play next season:
http://blogs.burlingtonfreepress.com/oncampus/2011/07/28/are-gaudreaus-in-uvm-hockeys-future/