Big Ten Hockey Conference

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Not convinced that it means anything.

When it comes to Notre Dam and the Big Ten/Televen/Twelven, it's always always always always come down to football, and Notre Dame has always always always always wanted to keep their football program independent.

The Big Ten/Televen/Twelven doesn't want associate members. Otherwise they would have taken in Notre Dame's non-football teams back in the 90s.

You are rationalizing the past and this situation with Notre Dame hockey is in the future.

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

That's not a decision imposed on the Integer by someone outside. I have no reason to think that they will change their stance, but they certainly can if they want to.

Semantics aside, there is absolutely no reason for the Big Ten to change their stance now. They haven't had associate members in the past, they've shown no inclination to do so now, and saying that they will not do so isn't really going out on a limb.

From the other side - what would adding ND for hockey only do for the Big Ten? The answer is little - and it probably gives up any leverage to get ND as a full member of the conference. It won't happen because the Big Ten won't have associate members, but most importantly it won't happen because it doesn't make any sense.

While that's true, Minnesota will certainly play a part in any discussions about whether the Integer will form a hockey conference. Depending on how the non-hockey (and other hockey) schools feel about it, it may very well be necessary to convince Minnesota to go along for it to go through.

Oh, that may well be the case behind closed doors - but there won't be leverage like "we'll add Notre Dame!" to help convince them.

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

From the other side - what would adding ND for hockey only do for the Big Ten? The answer is little - and it probably gives up any leverage to get ND as a full member of the conference. It won't happen because the Big Ten won't have associate members, but most importantly it won't happen because it doesn't make any sense.

Adding Notre Dame prevents the potential WCHA breakaway schools from getting Notre Dame. Addition by subtraction.

I would also think that Notre Dame is a powerful road draw for neophyte college hockey fans.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Adding Notre Dame prevents the potential WCHA breakaway schools from getting Notre Dame. Addition by subtraction.

You really know nothing about the Big Ten do you? The BigTen cares about things much larger than College Hockey. They have never had associate members, every university in the BigTen is part of CIC. Academics plays a large role in things. How hard is it to wrap your head around these ideas? The BigTen will never do anything to help ND hockey even if you think its better for the 6 schools in the BigTen that play hockey...at least not without getting the diamond that is the ND football team.

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I don't think there's any doubt that Alvarez will get his way. Presumably because there are other people involved who also know nothing about college hockey that feel the same way he does.

It doesn't do much to change the fact that its really stupid to read an article where my AD is treating this like a foregone conclusion. Can't Barry at least pretend like he gives a crap what happens to the rest of midwestern college hockey?

You can stop overplaying Barry's role here, EoDS.

Barry is merely the voice of reason here. We're talking about Big Ten hockey because Big Ten hockey makes sense. With the addition of Penn State (which, unless Barry is on the Board of Royal Dutch Shell, has nothing to do with Mr. Alvarez), it's a question that's moved from the theoretical to the practical.

He's treating it like a foregone conclusion because it is a foregone conclusion. Everyone in the various ADs knows this - even Maturi. The numbers just make too much sense. There's a reason why these schools are associated with each other in every other sport, and there's a reason why those associations have been successful both financially and competitively.

I also don't buy the argument that the mere formation of a BTHC means doom for the rest of college hockey. It means change, and change will produce some winners and some losers - but I don't think the individual delta for any one school is going to be disastrous. If it is (as I've argued before), then that program was already teetering on the brink.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You are rationalizing the past and this situation with Notre Dame hockey is in the future.

I'm not "rationalizing" it as much as I am "explaining why it didn't happen last time Notre Dame went down that path".

There is no reason to suspect that anything has changed with regard to the Big Ten and Notre Dame, so why presume otherwise?

Beyond that, look at how the expansion issue played out for the Big Ten. Despite the fact that the purpose of the entire excercise was to get a championship game for football, did you ever ONCE hear anyone say anything about associate members for that?

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Beyond that, look at how the expansion issue played out for the Big Ten. Despite the fact that the purpose of the entire excercise was to get a championship game for football, did you ever ONCE hear anyone say anything about associate members for that?

This is incorrect. The Big Ten expanded (and is still looking, by the way) because it wants to grow the brand and their media empire. The existence of a championship game is a drop in the bucket. Hell, Delany even suggested a year ago or so that they might not even have one for football.

Expansion has always been about finding institutions that are good matches for the rest of the Big Ten, ones that help advance the academic missions of the Universities, ones that add market share to the Big Ten Network (either through media market size or through fanbase size, preferably both), and ones that enhance the competitive success of the conference.

More fundamentally, it's also a realization that the current alignment of conferences isn't all that stable, and the Big Ten is positioning itself for success in the long run.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You can stop overplaying Barry's role here, EoDS.

Barry is merely the voice of reason here. We're talking about Big Ten hockey because Big Ten hockey makes sense. With the addition of Penn State (which, unless Barry is on the Board of Royal Dutch Shell, has nothing to do with Mr. Alvarez), it's a question that's moved from the theoretical to the practical.

He's treating it like a foregone conclusion because it is a foregone conclusion.

I agree with everything you said here.

What I am arguing is that, once again, Barry is showing a noticable lack of tact in how he handles hockey issues in the media. He could've looked to the press statement issued by the Big Ten (however phony it may have been) to see how to respectfully handle these sorts of things. Instead, he chooses to blab his fat mouth to Baggott and what does that accomplish? Give a few more beat reporters at smaller schools the willies? Maybe even scare some of the people at those schools that actually matter?

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

This is incorrect. The Big Ten expanded (and is still looking, by the way) because it wants to grow the brand and their media empire. The existence of a championship game is a drop in the bucket. Hell, Delany even suggested a year ago or so that they might not even have one for football.

Expansion has always been about finding institutions that are good matches for the rest of the Big Ten, ones that help advance the academic missions of the Universities, ones that add market share to the Big Ten Network (either through media market size or through fanbase size, preferably both), and ones that enhance the competitive success of the conference.

Let's put it this way, blockski: the Big Ten wasn't (and isn't) looking to expand their media empire by adding Nebraska's women's volleyball or tennis teams. Even all of the media-driven implications of what the Big Ten was (and is) trying to do with expansion ultimately just leads back to football. And, to a much lesser extent, basketball.

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I agree with everything you said here.

What I am arguing is that, once again, Barry is showing a noticable lack of tact in how he handles hockey issues in the media. He could've looked to the press statement issued by the Big Ten (however phony it may have been) to see how to respectfully handle these sorts of things. Instead, he chooses to blab his fat mouth to Baggott and what does that accomplish? Give a few more beat reporters at smaller schools the willies? Maybe even scare some of the people at those schools that actually matter?

You've got an axe to grind with Barry about all sorts of things, and you think he said that without tact.

Andy Baggot criticizes Barry all the time, and argues he spoke with tact.

Two sides to the story, my friend.

Barry's never going to be a diplomat, that's for sure. Still, he didn't say anything new. He acknowledged the elephant in the room. If the ADs at those small schools aren't aware of said elephant by now, then they probably shouldn't be ADs.

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Let's put it this way, blockski: the Big Ten wasn't (and isn't) looking to expand their media empire by adding Nebraska's women's volleyball or tennis teams. Even all of the media-driven implications of what the Big Ten was (and is) trying to do with expansion ultimately just leads back to football. And, to a much lesser extent, basketball.

All true - but they're not doing it to add a championship game.

Hell, if anything, the Big Ten's lack of a championship game in recent years has been a benefit to the conference getting multiple teams into the BCS almost every year.

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You really know nothing about the Big Ten do you? The BigTen cares about things much larger than College Hockey. They have never had associate members, every university in the BigTen is part of CIC. Academics plays a large role in things. How hard is it to wrap your head around these ideas? The BigTen will never do anything to help ND hockey even if you think its better for the 6 schools in the BigTen that play hockey...at least not without getting the diamond that is the ND football team.

Can I assume since you went to Tech that you are an engineer?

I'm in business, so lets just say you and I don't see the world the same way.

The BTHC is all about M-O-N-E-Y. Adding Notre Dame hockey will help the bottom line.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You've got an axe to grind with Barry about all sorts of things

This is true.

I like Coach Alvarez just fine. Barry the AD, on the other hand, I like about as much as my cat loves swimming pools. (Cats and swimming pools, coincidentally, also work as a great metaphor to describe Alvarez's subtlety and grace)

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

All true - but they're not doing it to add a championship game.

Hell, if anything, the Big Ten's lack of a championship game in recent years has been a benefit to the conference getting multiple teams into the BCS almost every year.

Also true. But it's worth noting: they are adding a championship game.

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You are rationalizing the past and this situation with Notre Dame hockey is in the future.

You are rationalizing using random posts on a random message board that have no basis in fact. No offense, but you dont have a leg to stand on.

You must also think the refs are out to screw the Sioux then right?