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Ralph Baer
09-12-2010, 11:07 PM
In honor of C. J. Lee, today is 13 September 2010. There are 22 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 5 October for the start of next season.

FlagDUDE08
09-13-2010, 04:36 AM
I think you may be onto their secret TroyBoy; watch the game by the reflection from the glass...BRILLIANT!;)

Glass reflection is pretty much the same as "bending over and looking out their good eye". :eek: :D So, they're doing what we yell for them to do.

Some of the refs in the ECAC aren't too bad. And when I say some, it means I can count them with one hand. But it's something I've grown apathetic to, seeing as how I grew up watching hometown refs in every sport. It could always be worse.

FlagDUDE08
09-13-2010, 05:38 AM
Even in well officiated games there are missed calls(what we all should realize is this is a different game @ ice level than it is 10 rows up).

I wonder if that's why they tried in the NHL Experimental Rules camp (which Koudys attended) having the ref on a soap box watching the game from above.

DrDemento
09-13-2010, 06:43 AM
Glass reflection is pretty much the same as "bending over and looking out their good eye". :eek: :D So, they're doing what we yell for them to do.

Some of the refs in the ECAC aren't too bad. And when I say some, it means I can count them with one hand. But it's something I've grown apathetic to, seeing as how I grew up watching hometown refs in every sport. It could always be worse.

I just hope that most games are called in such a way that we don't even notice who the ref is. The best games are when the officials are just not the center of the action. Making calls is one thing, making spurious calls that affect the outcome of a game is quite another. Late calls can do it, putting a team down 2 men for 2 full minutes can do it, making calls against a particular player(JD'A and BP last year) can do it. What was done 2 years ago at Cornell in game 2 of the playoffs by Kotyra and Murphy was just plain inexcusable. It was IMO a concerted effort to insure how the game would progress.

babo
09-13-2010, 06:57 AM
I just hope that most games are called in such a way that we don't even notice who the ref is. The best games are when the officials are just not the center of the action. Making calls is one thing, making spurious calls that affect the outcome of a game is quite another. Late calls can do it, putting a team down 2 men for 2 full minutes can do it, making calls against a particular player(JD'A and BP last year) can do it. What was done 2 years ago at Cornell in game 2 of the playoffs by Kotyra and Murphy was just plain inexcusable. It was IMO a concerted effort to insure how the game would progress.

We all know that mistakes are mad at ALL level of officiating (God knows, you couldn't pay me enough to be a ref at youth OR H.S. events...). What I constantly wonder (and I'd like anyone to insert what they know here): do they not watch game film as part of their 'professional development'? Shouldn't there be some accountability for a pattern of behavior (or lack thereof)? They have access to a myriad of resources. Or have they just resorted to, "He can skate, so give him a whistle and let's sit back and watch what happens..."

FlagDUDE08
09-13-2010, 07:10 AM
We all know that mistakes are mad at ALL level of officiating (God knows, you couldn't pay me enough to be a ref at youth OR H.S. events...). What I constantly wonder (and I'd like anyone to insert what they know here): do they not watch game film as part of their 'professional development'? Shouldn't there be some accountability for a pattern of behavior (or lack thereof)? They have access to a myriad of resources. Or have they just resorted to, "He can skate, so give him a whistle and let's sit back and watch what happens..."

Not to mention how their officiating is impacting our country's future. Look at the colorful language those children learn when the refs are given an informal assessment of their performance at the tunnel... and yes I know some of that they learned from me.

We also have to figure this is a second job for everyone (except MAYBE Mr. Hagwell), and they're doing it out of love of the game, and a few extra bucks. You're not going to see everything, and you might screw up here and there. I'm not sure how much time they have available to review their performance, or if they'd get compensated for doing this. Sometimes you have to take what you can get.

JCrawford
09-13-2010, 09:18 AM
Just talked to one of the players on the women's hockey team, and she said that they get to practice tonight on the ice at the Houston Field House. We're that much closer to the renovations being ready for games!

Wicked Slappaahs
09-13-2010, 09:28 AM
We all know that mistakes are mad at ALL level of officiating (God knows, you couldn't pay me enough to be a ref at youth OR H.S. events...). What I constantly wonder (and I'd like anyone to insert what they know here): do they not watch game film as part of their 'professional development'? Shouldn't there be some accountability for a pattern of behavior (or lack thereof)? ..."

Couldn't agree more Babo -- I have a buddy who is a youth ref here locally. He was and is a great skater and hockey player (he still plays in an adult league at HFH). He knows the rules as well as anyone I've ever met (including my father who was a college ref). He refs because he loves the game and it keeps him involved while he is teaching the game to his two young sons in pee wees. Sadly, he has no use for the politics and cronyism that goes on in the officiating world (its really too bad, because if anyone does, he belongs in the training program in the ECAC.)

We sit together at HFH and he just shakes his head at some of the calls made -- and often not made -- by the officials.

That's a great point raised about what processes the ECAC uses for prof. development. Sadly, the director of officiating seems to have such a thin skin, that reporters don't want to ask those questions, for fear of getting their head torn off.

Beman
09-13-2010, 09:29 AM
Not to mention how their officiating is impacting our country's future. Look at the colorful language those children learn when the refs are given an informal assessment of their performance at the tunnel... and yes I know some of that they learned from me.

We also have to figure this is a second job for everyone (except MAYBE Mr. Hagwell), and they're doing it out of love of the game, and a few extra bucks. You're not going to see everything, and you might screw up here and there.

They do it to stroke their ego. Look at Emmination (I know spelled wrong) he skates around like a ballet dancer singing look at me! Look at me!

Wicked Slappaahs
09-13-2010, 09:34 AM
Not to mention how their officiating is impacting our country's future. Look at the colorful language those children learn when the refs are given an informal assessment of their performance at the tunnel... and yes I know some of that they learned from me.

We also have to figure this is a second job for everyone (except MAYBE Mr. Hagwell), and they're doing it out of love of the game, and a few extra bucks. You're not going to see everything, and you might screw up here and there. I'm not sure how much time they have available to review their performance, or if they'd get compensated for doing this. Sometimes you have to take what you can get.

The league brought Paul Stewart in - with some fanfare - as an admission that ECAC officiating needed fixing. I was as optimistic as anyone that his hiring would bring about needed improvement. So far ( I believe he's been on the job for at least 3 years) I haven't seen it.

Also, we can't lay this issue solely at the feet of the ECAC. USA Hockey bears the responsibility for recruiting and training young officials...you can't make things better in any league without a steady flow of young officials who'll push the tenured refs to excel.

Wicked Slappaahs
09-13-2010, 09:35 AM
Just talked to one of the players on the women's hockey team, and she said that they get to practice tonight on the ice at the Houston Field House. We're that much closer to the renovations being ready for games!

Great news. I'm sure the players are very happy to not be commuting to practice anymore!

Wicked Slappaahs
09-13-2010, 09:40 AM
I can only speak for myself but I've been to well officiated games and have no bias against on ice officials just for what they represent.Even in well officiated games there are missed calls(what we all should realize is this is a different game @ ice level than it is 10 rows up).Where I have an issue is when a official injects himself into a game and actually affects the outcome of the game.This happens on a nightly basis in the ECACHL.I actually saw a referee not mentioning any names(Feola) actually call a penalty when he had his back turned to the play...he heard the noise turned around and saw a player laying on the ice and called a penalty for boarding in the last minutes of the game when the team had there goalie pulled and were applying heavy pressure negating the man advantage and effectivly ending the game....THATS WRONG ! I know this is crazy to say but IMO ECACHL officials have a fundamental mis understanding of how a game should be conducted....that comes from the top and thats scary....So There
I agree with all of this and would add that I have seen just as many bad or missed calls go against opposing teams...a quick glance at any of the in-season team threads shows that it is obviously a league-wide problem.

Ralph Baer
09-13-2010, 10:06 AM
I agree with all of this and would add that I have seen just as many bad or missed calls go against opposing teams...a quick glance at any of the in-season team threads shows that it is obviously a league-wide problem.

It's more than a league-wide problem.

JCrawford
09-13-2010, 10:55 AM
Great news. I'm sure the players are very happy to not be commuting to practice anymore!

Yes, they're looking forward to not needing commute. I'd imagine the incoming players are especially looking forward to skating on the ice at the HFH for the first time. The player I spoke with agreed that the Knick wasn't the best of places to skate/play.

babo
09-13-2010, 11:01 AM
The league brought Paul Stewart in - with some fanfare - as an admission that ECAC officiating needed fixing. I was as optimistic as anyone that his hiring would bring about needed improvement. So far ( I believe he's been on the job for at least 3 years) I haven't seen it.

Also, we can't lay this issue solely at the feet of the ECAC. USA Hockey bears the responsibility for recruiting and training young officials...you can't make things better in any league without a steady flow of young officials who'll push the tenured refs to excel.

You prompted a memory that I should have shared from this summer but forgot (ugh...way too much info and not enough capacity!!!)...a gentleman came up to Rich while we were at the Chowder Cup to make note of a particularly large red creature (cretin?) on the ice who was wrecking havoc...The Hubster immediately recognized him as Paul Stewart. He is spending the initial time of his tenure in full evaluation...something that is refreshing if he can pull it off (compared to coming in and shotgun blasting his preconceived solutions into the pie hole of the refs...). Hopefully he will begin to right the listing ref ship...

Red Cloud
09-13-2010, 11:05 AM
WaP Know Your Enemy: St. Lawrence (http://www.withoutapeer.com/2010/09/know-your-enemy-st-lawrence.html)

DrDemento
09-13-2010, 11:17 AM
a gentleman came up to Rich while we were at the Chowder Cup to make note of a particularly large red creature (cretin?) on the ice who was wrecking havoc...

Wrecking Havoc? This is just music to my ears!!!:D

DrDemento
09-13-2010, 11:19 AM
We all know that mistakes are mad at ALL level of officiating (God knows, you couldn't pay me enough to be a ref at youth OR H.S. events...). What I constantly wonder (and I'd like anyone to insert what they know here): do they not watch game film as part of their 'professional development'? Shouldn't there be some accountability for a pattern of behavior (or lack thereof)? They have access to a myriad of resources. Or have they just resorted to, "He can skate, so give him a whistle and let's sit back and watch what happens..."

I never want to see a stat sheet that even remotely looks like this again-
http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/mcorren1.m14

Ralph Baer
09-13-2010, 11:34 AM
I never want to see a stat sheet that even remotely looks like this again-
http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/mcorren1.m14

seconded :mad:

Wicked Slappaahs
09-13-2010, 11:58 AM
You prompted a memory that I should have shared from this summer but forgot (ugh...way too much info and not enough capacity!!!)...a gentleman came up to Rich while we were at the Chowder Cup to make note of a particularly large red creature (cretin?) on the ice who was wrecking havoc...The Hubster immediately recognized him as Paul Stewart. He is spending the initial time of his tenure in full evaluation...something that is refreshing if he can pull it off (compared to coming in and shotgun blasting his preconceived solutions into the pie hole of the refs...). Hopefully he will begin to right the listing ref ship...

I actually like Stewart and his Southie demeanor (its in my blood)..he was an enforcer back in his playing days, so I'm not surprised he noticed the BRO...:D

To be fair, I have seen several referee evaluators in the stands at HFH (including former NHL'er Kevin Collins) and elsewhere in the past few years....so they are definitely watching. Part of the issue lies in the numbers -- Stewart might very well wish to remove a couple of refs from their jobs, but you have to have someone competent who can replace them... I guess we can hope that progress will follow. We have started seeing some new names -- mostly linesmen -- so my guess is Stewart is spending a lot of time building the ranks of officials.

I just looked it up for folks, who don't know of him. I wasn't far off, Stewart has been on the job since July '07.
http://www.ecachockey.com/men/Officiating_Staff/index