HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

[ALONZO]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

We had two really big classes the past two years (Killorn's year, D. Biega's year) and as a result, there are less roster spots to recruit for?

And seeing as, by my quick glance, there's 8 rising seniors, and there's also 8 recruits on the Heisenberg list, I'm going to go with that. How many players from the other Ivies are rising seniors and thus are leaving after this season?

Here are the figures you're asking about:

Rising Seniors, Recruits 2011, Recruits 2012+

Brown 5 5 1
Cornell 6 9
Dartmouth 8 10 2
Harvard 8 8
Princeton 8 5 3
Yale 8 8 8

You're correct about our filling roster spots for 2011. Our problem is that we have nobody verbally committed for 2012 and beyond. Yale already has eight such commitments and continues to acquire more. They don't hesitate if a guy looks good as a sophomore in high school. All the Ivies are active in this futures market except Cornell and us. In Cornell's case they have nine 2011 replacements for six Rising Seniors. Presumably they anticipate some slippage among these nine recruits.

The bottom line, I think, is that we have some work to do.

GO CRIMSON!

[bothman]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I think we can pencil Marc Biega in for 2012

[pfibiger]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Here are the figures you're asking about:

Rising Seniors, Recruits 2011, Recruits 2012+

Cornell 6 9
Dartmouth 8 10 2
Harvard 8 8
Princeton 8 5 3
Yale 8 8 8

All the Ivies are active in this futures market except Cornell and us. In Cornell's case they have nine 2011 replacements for six Rising Seniors. Presumably they anticipate some slippage among these nine recruits.

Just to clarify, I think some of Heisenberg's dates slipped when he migrated from the 2010 page to 2011. 2-3 of those 9 Cornell recruits listed are definitely 2012 recruits (Stevie Miller, Mark Schiefele and likely one of Cole Bardreau and Phillipe Hudon).

There was a period when it seemed like Harvard was getting a great head start on the future, when Mark Luzar and Zack Mitchell committed. Mitchell bolted to the OHL (as did Cornell recruit Ben Thomson) and it seemed like it never really picked up steam after that.

I don't know a ton about your 2011 class, but I think Placek is going to be a stud.

[bothman]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Just to clarify, I think some of Heisenberg's dates slipped when he migrated from the 2010 page to 2011. 2-3 of those 9 Cornell recruits listed are definitely 2012 recruits (Stevie Miller, Mark Schiefele and likely one of Cole Bardreau and Phillipe Hudon).

There was a period when it seemed like Harvard was getting a great head start on the future, when Mark Luzar and Zack Mitchell committed. Mitchell bolted to the OHL (as did Cornell recruit Ben Thomson) and it seemed like it never really picked up steam after that.

I don't know a ton about your 2011 class, but I think Placek is going to be a stud.

The 2010 class was always going to be a depth class with role players given the 2009 class - though the 2009 class has just been exposed with Leblanc's departure. Calof was the one higher-end guy and his loss, coupled with Leblanc's departure really, really stings. Not many natural Centers on Harvard's squad this fall.

The 2011 class is very solid. Placek and McNally are both high end guys (Placek could be a NHL first round draft pick this June if he has a good prep season). Losing Mitchell hurt - he is a very high-end talent and would have put Harvard's 2011 Class in the Top 10 nationally range. Luzar is a bit of an enigma. He's a guy that got by with size and others are catching up a bit now. His stock has slipped over the last twelve months.

2012 is a ?, but let's not jump to conclusions. It is always difficult for Harvard to sign early given academics and given recent issues (Calof), they may be a little trigger shy. Yale has signed some folks, but that doesn't mean that there still isn't talent to be had. Harvard may just have its sights set on different folks.

A couple of guys to keep an ear out for:
Gavin Stoick on the USNDT U17 team is on Harvard's radar
Tyler Kelleher is on Harvard's radar
Marc Biega (safe to say) is on Harvard's radar

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I'm getting tired of reading Heisenberg's reports on all the recruits which our Ivy brethren have lined up. Yale in particular has been very active. Cornell, Brown, and Dartmouth are not far behind. We, along with Princeton, seem to be dragging.

What is it with our hockey recruiting? Our other teams seem to be doing just fine. Any thoughts?

GO CRIMSON!

Does the name Donato telegraph anything to you?

You guys remind me of the portrayal of the First Class passengers in the movie Titanic... the ones who play soccer with the pieces of ice on the deck, and put the ice in their drinks. Drink up lads, and the next thing you'll say is that LeBlanc leaving has no impact or bearing on the program.

The difference between H and BC in hockey is that BC recruits better-than-average D-1 players and coaching works them into four feasible-realistic lines; the thing with Harvard is you are waiting/expecting your next star, ala a McDonald or Fusco, to perform miracles.

You got us in academics, though BC is climbing in the Princeton Review rather nicely each year, but your H hockey program is in shambles. But you're Harvard, so what does it really matter when you look down your noses at other college sports teams?

[Kepler]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

The difference between H and BC in hockey is that BC recruits better-than-average D-1 players and coaching works them into four feasible-realistic lines; the thing with Harvard is you are waiting/expecting your next star, ala a McDonald or Fusco, to perform miracles.

I'm not exactly a Harvard fan, but I'd say the difference between H and BC in hockey is recruiting against 300 more SAT points.

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I'm not exactly a Harvard fan, but I'd say the difference between H and BC in hockey is recruiting against 300 more SAT points.

Ahh, the old SAT argument; ironic. Where to begin?! I am sure that Cornell has the highest and toughest admissions for their hockey players, right? No questions about integrity around the kids that Schaffer brought in the last decade or so, right? Especially those Canucks on that Frozen Four team a while back, ehh? I mean, at least, half of the Cornell squad are Pre-med majors, right?

You forgot to mention that the Ivies do not have NCAA Academic Scholorships... they have, ahh, just, hmm... financial scholarships, oops, I mean aid, yeah financial aid. Wink wink.

There is college sports, and then there is college academics. Seldom does a happy balance between both, without compromise, exist. Great academics: Haverford, Swarthmore, Williams, Smith, etc.; great sports: OSU, Tennesee, Kentucky, 'Bama, Miami, etc. I think the exception to the rules is Duke (hoops) and Middlebury (hockey). Either way, would you piff on either college for winning so many NCs when they have entrance/acceptance requirements on-par with the Ivy? What are these schools doing different that Harvard or Cornell? I say better all around coaching and development.

College hockey is a rich kids/prep school sport; those kids usually post higher SAT scores to begin with. However you'd be niaive to infer that 300 SAT points is keeping your Ivory Tower Schools from winning hardware. A cheap and diliberate abuse of Ockham's Razor. Maybe coaching/development is the real issue.

Can you really say with a straight face that Schaffer/Cornell has always abided by the NCAA rules and recruiting policy, without laughing or giggling?

[LynahFan]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

There is college sports, and then there is college academics. Seldom does a happy balance between both, without compromise, exist. Great academics: Haverford, Swarthmore, Williams, Smith, etc.; great sports: OSU, Tennesee, Kentucky, 'Bama, Miami, etc.

I think that was pretty much Kelper's point right there. Which side of the line is BC on?

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I think that was pretty much Kelper's point right there. Which side of the line is BC on?

... and as I said, I believe College Hockey to be the exception to the rule.

Again: affluent-white-prep school kids with higher than average SATs to begin with, D-1 recruiting from the same pool of kids, and lack of coaching/development at Ivy schools.

Now tell me that Schaffaer/Cornell have not taken any liberties with recruiting, financing, or looking the other way with their recruits... < cricket sounds >

The problem at H is coaching and developing, not recruiting. Q. Going by recruiting, and the names H got over the last decade, why hasn't Harvard been more successful? A. Donato.

Personally, I hope Harvard achieves at least 10 wins season this year. If not I will certainly sell my season tickets. Donato has created a sub-par, crappy product.

[Slasher7]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I'm not exactly a Harvard fan, but I'd say the difference between H and BC in hockey is recruiting against 300 more SAT points.

Not sure about that. Two of BC's graduated seniors this year, Ben Smith and Matt Price, could have easily played at Harvard. Goalie John Muse turned down Harvard for BC.

The problem at H is Donato. I wonder how long it will take for Harvard to dump him and bring in Crimson alum Kevin Sneddon, currently at UVM. I'm sure both parties would be thrilled with that marriage and the Crimson would rebound nicely.

[Slasher7]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

I think that was pretty much Kelper's point right there. Which side of the line is BC on?

As an athletic department, Boston College is in line with the Dukes, Vanderbilt's and Virginia's of the NCAA world. They aren't holier than thou like Harvard, but will never dredge the swamp to get players like UConn, Alabama or West Virginia either.

[Puck Swami]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

The problem at H is Donato. I wonder how long it will take for Harvard to dump him and bring in Crimson alum Kevin Sneddon, currently at UVM. I'm sure both parties would be thrilled with that marriage and the Crimson would rebound nicely.

Are you really sure Sneddon would just jump to H? Sneddon is building a nice program in Burlington in (higher profile) Hockey East, and can recruit from a wider talent pool at UVM than he ever could at Harvard. I am sure he's a loyal a Harvard man as there is, but from a pure coaching standpoint, the UVM job also has plenty of attractions...

[LynahFan]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Are you really sure Sneddon would just jump to H? Sneddon is building a nice program in Burlington in (higher profile) Hockey East, and can recruit from a wider talent pool at UVM than he ever could at Harvard. I am sure he's a loyal a Harvard man as there is, but from a pure coaching standpoint, the UVM job also has plenty of attractions...

That would be a tough call: Boston media + Beanpot vs. higher profile HEA... Hmmm...

[Slasher7]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Are you really sure Sneddon would just jump to H? Sneddon is building a nice program in Burlington in (higher profile) Hockey East, and can recruit from a wider talent pool at UVM than he ever could at Harvard. I am sure he's a loyal a Harvard man as there is, but from a pure coaching standpoint, the UVM job also has plenty of attractions...

I think he would. He's a Harvard grad with a great reputation from his playing days there. I think deep down, every good player would love to coach at his alma mater (York @ BC, Parker @ BU, Umile @ UNH, etc).

[bothman]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Ahh, the old SAT argument; ironic. Where to begin?! I am sure that Cornell has the highest and toughest admissions for their hockey players, right? No questions about integrity around the kids that Schaffer brought in the last decade or so, right? Especially those Canucks on that Frozen Four team a while back, ehh? I mean, at least, half of the Cornell squad are Pre-med majors, right?

You forgot to mention that the Ivies do not have NCAA Academic Scholorships... they have, ahh, just, hmm... financial scholarships, oops, I mean aid, yeah financial aid. Wink wink.

There is college sports, and then there is college academics. Seldom does a happy balance between both, without compromise, exist. Great academics: Haverford, Swarthmore, Williams, Smith, etc.; great sports: OSU, Tennesee, Kentucky, 'Bama, Miami, etc. I think the exception to the rules is Duke (hoops) and Middlebury (hockey). Either way, would you piff on either college for winning so many NCs when they have entrance/acceptance requirements on-par with the Ivy? What are these schools doing different that Harvard or Cornell? I say better all around coaching and development.

College hockey is a rich kids/prep school sport; those kids usually post higher SAT scores to begin with. However you'd be niaive to infer that 300 SAT points is keeping your Ivory Tower Schools from winning hardware. A cheap and diliberate abuse of Ockham's Razor. Maybe coaching/development is the real issue.

Can you really say with a straight face that Schaffer/Cornell has always abided by the NCAA rules and recruiting policy, without laughing or giggling?

Interesting parallel - BC Football & Harvard Hockey