HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

[J.D.]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Not much better. BC holds their young players back a hair to blend them in and learn their style of play. They dont want the Kreiders of the world dominating and leaving.

Leblanc was .7419 PPG on a team with not nearly the talent of BC
Kreider was .6053

I wouldn't say York holds his young players back. Looking back on some first round picks he's had:

Reasoner
Kobasew

Those two weren't held back at all. They dominated from the start. If you can help the team win, you're gonna be in there. Kreider wasn't really held back either. He was given ice time from the start, just took him a while to get going.

[Onion Man]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Finally and, most important, Brown will win an a national hockey championship before Harvard will win their next. Take that to the bank. (Quote)

Dont count on it....

I was very impressed with what Brown did at the end of the year but they are still getting the kids after they are told no at Harvard, BC, BU etc. That will not change because they made it to ECAC finals once.

It may not happen for 20+ years, but it will happen. Now that Brown is Grillo-free, I think you may actually see this program finally turn around. The series vs. Yale was extremely uplifting last spring.

Brown needs their "Drury" or their "Reasoner", a kid who help turn the program around and gets other kids to follow. Harvard already gets those kids and they still fail.

[Hokydad]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

It may not happen for 20+ years, but it will happen. Now that Brown is Grillo-free, I think you may actually see this program finally turn around. The series vs. Yale was extremely uplifting last spring.

Brown needs their "Drury" or their "Reasoner", a kid who help turn the program around and gets other kids to follow. Harvard already gets those kids and they still fail.

I hope so. The thought of Grillo being involved with the running of ADM and USA hockey devlopment makies me sick.

The key to Brown's chances is their recruiting and coaching. They have a great new staff and should be fun to watch. Keefe is a go getter

My subtle point is that neither will win one for sometime because D1 programs are bordeline jr teams now where Harvrad and Brown still have high standards. Same reason why Harvard etc are not natl football contenders

[sterlippo1]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

[QUOTE=J.D.;4836174]I don't like the idea of 20-21 year old freshmen either, but Harvard is hardly the only school to have "young" freshmen.



A couple years ago I know BC had the youngest team in the country. Not sure how the ECAC compares to other leagues in terms of average age though.



i did the number crunching last year and posted it on the BC thread i think and BC was in fact the youngest team in D1 last year, i want to say 18 yrs 10 months and a surprise for second youngest, Michigan by 4 months or so per player

[Hokydad]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

[QUOTE=sterlippo1;4836814]

I don't like the idea of 20-21 year old freshmen either, but Harvard is hardly the only school to have "young" freshmen.



A couple years ago I know BC had the youngest team in the country. Not sure how the ECAC compares to other leagues in terms of average age though.



i did the number crunching last year and posted it on the BC thread i think and BC was in fact the youngest team in D1 last year, i want to say 18 yrs 10 months and a surprise for second youngest, Michigan by 4 months or so per player

please crunch again, no way they were 18 and 10 months.

[Puck Swami]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

[QUOTE=Hokydad;4836835]

please crunch again, no way they were 18 and 10 months.

I think he meant the freshman class age, not the team age.

[JCrawford]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

please crunch again, no way they were 18 and 10 months.

BC's freshman class last year, as of today, averages 19 years, 9 months. So it's very conceivable that they were 18 years, 10 months on average coming in last season.

[J.D.]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Hokydad, can you please learn how to use the quote function?

[Hokydad]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Hokydad, can you please learn how to use the quote function?

I hit the button and what comes up comes up...

I have noticed a hair off ..

[Hokydad]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

[QUOTE=Puck Swami;4836863]

I think he meant the freshman class age, not the team age.

Agreed and if so no question correct.

[sterlippo1]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

[QUOTE=Hokydad;4836835]

please crunch again, no way they were 18 and 10 months.

you're right of course, i did do it and they were the youngest but not having the time to find it as easily as i did back during the season, the best i can come up with is that i was an inexcusable year off , i come up with 19 yrs 10 months. so, that's kinda why i said "i think" but your point is taken and i stand corrected but they were the youngest team none the less

[Pucknut]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Our hearts go out to the Murphy family, Dan of Harvard and Ben of Maine on the passing of their grandfather Phillip Long who was put to rest today.

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Harvard was able to really take advantage of several key trends in that era to roster some awesome teams.

1) The Bobby Orr Boom: Boston kids who started playing hockey in the early 70s as kids and came of age in the mid 80s expanded the talent pool. Harvard was able to exploit some the cream of that larger talent pool.

2) The pinnacle era of offensive hockey - Tha 1980s were an era of freewheeling offensive hockey in the era before defensive systems, video scouting and goaltending styles, coaching and equipment were revolutionzed in the 90s. Harvard's speedy roll-four-lines of skaters were perfect for that era where 7-5 scores were the norm. That's all changed now, as defensive coaching, scouting and goaltending have caught up to skaters. You just don't see a lot of 5-8 defensemen like H's Mark Benning anymore, who ruled in that era.

3) Olympic returns: When you have players like Scott Fusco and Lane MacDonald and Allen Borbeau turning down the NHL to come back from the Olympics and play for Harvard again after the Olympics, you have the recipe for explosively talented teams. Those guys were vastly improved players playing 60 game pre-Olympic tours, and their returns to Harvard put them at a whole different level. With NHL players comprising Olympic players today, you don't have that extra infusion of talent anymore.

How can you give a critique of Harvard hockey without mentioning Billy Cleary. Since he retired, every coach they've had has been worse than the one he replaced, culminating with Donato. Over the past few years Harvard has had their share of alleged talent come on board, but I have seen nothing that gives me the impression that they know what to do with it. Their performance in the last year's Beanpot was an embarrassment to the Weiland/Cleary tradition.

[Big Papa]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

Couple of thoughts:

1) Thanks for the well-wishes. This is my first and it's been quite a ride thus far. What a special time in life!

2) Brown has been the perennial doormat in the league for decades. Once a decade they produce a team that makes some noise inthe ECAC before resuming their place at the bottom. A good Brown team is good for the ECAC and thus, good for Harvard so I hope they can build on last season's nice play-off run.

3) Harvard does have some overage players, but last I checked (last year), Harvard had the youngest roster in the ECAC. Let's look at averages and not make exceptions the rules.

4) The Leblanc signing is a big deal and a huge loss for Harvard. As a very wise man once told me after Louis signed with Harvard "Just remember that Paul Kariya is not walking through that door". He was right, but for those following Canada's Junior team scrimmages, Louis has been the star thus far. It takes time to adjust to college hockey and play againsty kids who are between 1-6 yrs older than you. I think Louis was poised for a breakoput year this year (35+ points) and would have challenged for the league MVP subject to Harvard's performance as a team. Also, not that he would have replaced Louis, but this makes the Andrew Calof punch to the gut hurt even more.

5) I don't love the non-conference schedule, but this year, having some weaker non-conference games will probably be a blessing. Harvard is going to struggle to score and certain players are going to have to step it up big time (Fallstrom, Killorn, McCollem, etc), not to mention the goalies.

6) Harvard of the 1980s was BC of today. Even comparing Harvard to BC is crazy right now. BC will win every recruit from Harvard these days, the only saving grace is if the candidate and parents really value education and if there is prior lineage.

Harvard has a great program and will do just fine. I wouldn't worry!

[Puck Swami]

Re: HARVARD CRIMSON 2010-2011 - A New Beginning

How can you give a critique of Harvard hockey without mentioning Billy Cleary. Since he retired, every coach they've had has been worse than the one he replaced, culminating with Donato. Over the past few years Harvard has had their share of alleged talent come on board, but I have seen nothing that gives me the impression that they know what to do with it. Their performance in the last year's Beanpot was an embarrassment to the Weiland/Cleary tradition.

Billy was a legend in his day - a man of true principle, he was so emblematic of Harvard. He loved the high tempo skating game, and he had many issues with professional hockey.

I think he probably left Harvard just in time - he'd be something of a caged lion coaching in today's world of defensive hockey systems, early signings and family advisors. You are correct that his successors have really struggled for consistency in the new era. It's really quite puzzling - Harvard has great hockey tradition, a fertile recruiting ground, and the best academic brand in the world. They should be better.