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ExileOnDaytonStreet
07-15-2010, 11:12 AM
I hate Philly as much as the next Mets/Giants/Rangers fan, but this is pretty ridiculous. Philadelphia has great urban parks (especially Fairmount Park), a wide variety of museums if that's your thing (the art museum with the Rocky steps, the Franklin Institute for example), historical sites including those you mentioned (and others such as Valley Forge an easy drive away), wide variety of restaurants and bars... a lot of the same things as Boston has going for it, except without the annoying accent.

But, you know, the NCAA is sorry they didn't consult you to check whether you've been there before or whether you might prefer to go to DC. (Where it just was, you know, LAST YEAR.)

Don't forget the other Philly/Boston comparison: Cheers vs. Paddy's Pub.

Russell Jaslow
07-15-2010, 11:12 AM
And just think, none of this likely would have happened if the Pens hadn't won the Crosby lottery. Pittsburgh really lucked out there.

No. It goes back to winning the Mario lottery.

I lived in Pittsburgh during Mario Lemieux's rookie season. It was amazing watching the very beginnings of the transformation of the town into a "who gives a crap about hockey" mentality to embracing the sport as one of their own.

Initially, you could buy tickets an hour before a game and have a whole section to yourself. Once, I bought tickets to a Rangers-Pens game just a few rows from the ice on the blue line the week of the game.

Later that season, the Pens played Edmonton in the first Gretzky-Lemieux showdown. It was a sellout -- one of the few in Pittsburgh's history up to that point. The excitement outside the arena was palpable. Scalpers were all over the place.

A co-worker who grew up in the area observed the scene and said, "What the hell is this? Scalpers at a hockey game?!"

Clifton
07-15-2010, 11:52 AM
i read that here as well but Boston put forth efforts good enough to get an NCAA mens basketball regional here recently(2008??) and the women's basketball final four in 2006. both of which i would say are more sought after and require more of an all out effort and they got THAT done..........

Yes, but both of those events only require Boston to address regular season scheduling issues for the Bruins and Celtics. For most NCAA tournament events, the NCAA demans exclusive access to the venue for a 4-5 day period. During the NBA and NHL regular season, that's really easy to ensure, as teams have a great deal of input in the home schedule in order to prevent conflicts (hence the "Circus Trips" and the Rangers and Blackhawks do every year).

For the Frozen Four, however, the event often coincides with the first round of the playoffs. As a result, the NCAA requires the host venue to work with the NHL to ensure that the Frozen Four will get priority. In Boston, the feeling is that didn't happen. In fact, the Garden didn't even go so far as to remove the Bruins logo from Center Ice--something that is as about as standard as you can get for NCAA Final Event--much less the exlusive access that the NCAA was promised years in advance. The overall impression was that, once the conflict was apparent, Boston was all too willing to roll over for the NHL on any dispute, at the expense of its own contractual obligations with the NCAA.

Right or wrong, I'm sure the NCAA continues to remember this.

sterlippo1
07-15-2010, 12:23 PM
Yes, but both of those events only require Boston to address regular season scheduling issues for the Bruins and Celtics. For most NCAA tournament events, the NCAA demans exclusive access to the venue for a 4-5 day period. During the NBA and NHL regular season, that's really easy to ensure, as teams have a great deal of input in the home schedule in order to prevent conflicts (hence the "Circus Trips" and the Rangers and Blackhawks do every year).

For the Frozen Four, however, the event often coincides with the first round of the playoffs. As a result, the NCAA requires the host venue to work with the NHL to ensure that the Frozen Four will get priority. In Boston, the feeling is that didn't happen. In fact, the Garden didn't even go so far as to remove the Bruins logo from Center Ice--something that is as about as standard as you can get for NCAA Final Event--much less the exlusive access that the NCAA was promised years in advance. The overall impression was that, once the conflict was apparent, Boston was all too willing to roll over for the NHL on any dispute, at the expense of its own contractual obligations with the NCAA.

Right or wrong, I'm sure the NCAA continues to remember this.

interesting and insightful.............thanks

HockeyMan2000
07-15-2010, 05:05 PM
I think instead of going to the same old powerhouse cities year after year, that they are trying to branch the game out to more places. This is probably why Anaheim and St. Louis were in the mix. It's a great way to get people attracted to the game.

I don't see how you can get "people attracted to the game" when, with some of these selections, it flat out doesn't exist even in the region the FF is being hosted, much less the city itself...that's why sites like Anaheim and Tampa are just odd picks. It'd be like holding the LAX final in Los Angeles. The sport just isn't there, it's not like local people have any means of going to see the game at any other time or will in the future.

But this is an argument we've had here over and over. Is it worth going to "non traditional" sites when the sport doesn't exist there? I mean, it's one thing for certain leagues to "grow their game" in areas where it may not be widely popular, but when it flat out isn't in existence there, it makes you wonder what the NCAA is thinking -- unless it's now just a case of where the biggest available venues are and where the most money can be made. Which, sadly, seems to be where it's all going.

HockeyMan2000
07-15-2010, 05:09 PM
Not to mention, I think that it may be a tie-in with the ECAC championships being held in Atlantic City.

Now that's going to be a big draw. :p

mookie1995
07-15-2010, 06:24 PM
I don't see how you can get "people attracted to the game" when, with some of these selections, it flat out doesn't exist even in the region the FF is being hosted, much less the city itself...that's why sites like Anaheim and Tampa are just odd picks. It'd be like holding the LAX final in Los Angeles. The sport just isn't there, it's not like local people have any means of going to see the game at any other time or will in the future..

we are not taking into account how many tickets are allotted for the lottery, WHICH DOES SELL OUT. then how many are available for home team of the arena season ticket holders (of which i've already contacted two for consol :p ):p . then others for whomever.

if the ncaa went back to anaheim tomorrow and sold the entire barn to the lottery, it would sell out.

the trick is gauging the market correctly.:D

slapschott
07-15-2010, 06:28 PM
Philly is the Calcutta of America. I'll go to the Frozen Four as always but probably just fly in the day of the games on Thursday since there's garbage to do in that lousy city. BU has played in one Frozen Four in the last 15 years, I'd say the odds of seeing those BC rejects is probably slim. At least the homeless people will have more people to shake down for change that weekend outside of Independence Hall. :)

You know what Onion? Don't come to Philly. Stay home.

Waite21
07-15-2010, 08:15 PM
Given the level of college hockey awareness that currently exists here in central PA, it comes as a huge surprise (though a most pleasant one) to hear that the Frozen Four will come to the Commonwealth not just once, but twice.

By the time this is over, my local newspaper may actually consider giving a report on the Frozen Four as much space as the report on who is likely to emerge from Penn State's spring practice as the third-string quarterback. :D

sterlippo1
07-15-2010, 08:21 PM
Given the level of college hockey awareness that currently exists here in central PA, it comes as a huge surprise (though a most pleasant one) to hear that the Frozen Four will come to the Commonwealth not just once, but twice.

By the time this is over, my local newspaper may actually consider giving a report on the Frozen Four as much space as the report on who is likely to emerge from Penn State's spring practice as the third-string quarterback. :D

not likely;) just kidding, all good. i'm glad for both cities, both good choices, IMO

JHG722
07-15-2010, 09:58 PM
I've been to Philly several times. Sure, you can visit Independence Hall, the Mutter Museum, umm, the Liberty Bell, ummm, Independence Hall again...

I'd be marginally excited if I hadn't been before, but if they are going to put this thing down the Atlantic coast, they should have put it in Washington again.

Most historic city in the country? Boston says hello.

Again, if you're bored in the 6th largest city in the country, you're probably not a remotely interesting person, which is pretty par for the course for someone from Brown. Again, please stay home.

WeAreNDHockey
07-15-2010, 11:06 PM
Given the level of college hockey awareness that currently exists here in central PA, it comes as a huge surprise (though a most pleasant one) to hear that the Frozen Four will come to the Commonwealth not just once, but twice.

By the time this is over, my local newspaper may actually consider giving a report on the Frozen Four as much space as the report on who is likely to emerge from Penn State's spring practice as the third-string quarterback. :D

I lived in Altoona (Hollidaysburg actually) in 2000-2001. Even though the Penn State football team suffered through Paterno's first losing season ever in 2000 and the basketball team was making it's final NCAA tourney appearance to date in 2001, the sports sections barely acknowledged the fact they played basketball (or any sport other than football) in State College and spent every day re-hashing a failed football season. It's changed a little with the recent success the Penguins have enjoyed, but to me it still seems that once you get west of the Susquehanna, football is the be-all end-all sport and little else matters, sportswise.

thebrain
07-15-2010, 11:28 PM
Philly's a great city...Airport isn't too great though. But you have many options(Southwest, Airtran, USAir, Delta and so forth) and the prices are pretty good(at least from Milwaukee and Minneapolis-St. Paul)

You're only about a 30-45 minute drive from Philly to Atlantic City. Drive to Trenton and train into NYC. Maybe a concert at the Susquehanna Bank Center in Camden.

A ton of stuff to do. Easy walking around from Center City to South Street and down to Geno's. King of Prussia Mall is really nice.

Not sure what more people want...What does Pittsburgh have or will have as I hear there's a lot of construction around the city now?

midwesterner
07-16-2010, 10:41 AM
Pittsburgh...you obviously have the Pirates depending on if they are in town or not and who they would be playing...cheap tixs. Great place to watch a game atleast even if they are terrible.

South side has a lot of good bars, Station square is a good time.

New Casino with table games as well.

Lots to do, should be good.

Decent golf courses too depending on weather...in Western PA could be nice.

jmh
07-16-2010, 11:09 AM
Baseball stadiums I haven't yet been to in all of the upcoming Frozen Four cities, and three of them fairly new stadiums at that. Let's hope the MLB schedule makers are kind to us.

FlagDUDE08
07-16-2010, 11:48 AM
Now that's going to be a big draw. :p

Try not to remind me, and I will try not to remind myself. :mad:

HockeyMan2000
07-16-2010, 02:54 PM
we are not taking into account how many tickets are allotted for the lottery, WHICH DOES SELL OUT. then how many are available for home team of the arena season ticket holders (of which i've already contacted two for consol :p ):p . then others for whomever.

if the ncaa went back to anaheim tomorrow and sold the entire barn to the lottery, it would sell out.

the trick is gauging the market correctly.:D

That wasn't my point, and I don't disagree with what you are saying. What I was responding to was the premise that holding the FF in "non traditional" sites is somehow going to "grow the game" and appeal to people who don't pay attention to college hockey. That's a whole other story and I think it's completely unrealistic to think that anyone who lives in an area where there isn't any college hockey is somehow going to become a fan of it, that programs are suddenly going to sprout up all over the place and the sport will expand across the nation. Never gonna happen.

Nick Papagiorgio
07-16-2010, 03:02 PM
That wasn't my point, and I don't disagree with what you are saying. What I was responding to was the premise that holding the FF in "non traditional" sites is somehow going to "grow the game" and appeal to people who don't pay attention to college hockey. That's a whole other story and I think it's completely unrealistic to think that anyone who lives in an area where there isn't any college hockey is somehow going to become a fan of it, that programs are suddenly going to sprout up all over the place and the sport will expand across the nation. Never gonna happen.

I agree. I have no problem going to a place like Anaheim or anywhere else that has no college hockey presence. But to act like it's going to help grow the sport... not going to happen.

RMUColonials
07-16-2010, 06:33 PM
the sports sections barely acknowledged the fact they played basketball (or any sport other than football) in State College and spent every day re-hashing a failed football season. It's changed a little with the recent success the Penguins have enjoyed, but to me it still seems that once you get west of the Susquehanna, football is the be-all end-all sport and little else matters, sportswise.


Penn State barely acknowledges that they play basketball in State College :p

SteveP
07-16-2010, 06:53 PM
Penn State barely acknowledges that they play basketball in State College :p

They do?? :rolleyes:


Given the level of college hockey awareness that currently exists here in central PA, it comes as a huge surprise (though a most pleasant one) to hear that the Frozen Four will come to the Commonwealth not just once, but twice.

By the time this is over, my local newspaper may actually consider giving a report on the Frozen Four as much space as the report on who is likely to emerge from Penn State's spring practice as the third-string quarterback. :D


I lived in Altoona (Hollidaysburg actually) in 2000-2001. Even though the Penn State football team suffered through Paterno's first losing season ever in 2000 and the basketball team was making it's final NCAA tourney appearance to date in 2001, the sports sections barely acknowledged the fact they played basketball (or any sport other than football) in State College and spent every day re-hashing a failed football season. It's changed a little with the recent success the Penguins have enjoyed, but to me it still seems that once you get west of the Susquehanna, football is the be-all end-all sport and little else matters, sportswise.

Even though the Penn State hockey program is non-varsity, it has a large fan base and has one of the best overall records of any team on campus. Despite the success, the team gets nary a mention in the Centre Daily Times. :(