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Puck Swami
06-17-2010, 02:37 PM
As many of you know, the OHL has ramped up it's educational offerings in recent years to keep promising Canadians players at home and to entice American players to spurn the NCAA and go north to play in the OHL.

Considering this was written by an OHL-team beat writer in Canada, its a a great and very frank look at this fascinating situation...

http://news.therecord.com/article/645999

Nick Papagiorgio
06-17-2010, 02:57 PM
Wow. Heck of an article.

Runninwiththedogs
06-17-2010, 03:20 PM
Holy crap.

This article is... eye-opening. And it's pretty much what we all suspected.

brianvf
06-17-2010, 03:33 PM
I remember reading that article a couple months ago.
Pretty eye-opening, indeed.

Patman
06-17-2010, 03:38 PM
Holy crap.

This article is... eye-opening. And it's pretty much what we all suspected.

I wonder how many OHLers advance on to pro hockey... I'm not defending them... but I'm sure a lot of these guys will try to toil in their dreams for a few years... but by then they'll be in their mid-20s and see school as a 4 year (probably more) experience while they have to deal with other issues (families they may have started... being able to pay for being a student in general). Nevertheless, that can go along way into players becoming college students later on... I don't care enough to investigate the particulars of what the OHL gives them (and how soon they have to use it)... but, yeah... its not waiting out there for them.

College gives you an opportunity to go to school and play until you're 24 (we know so many hockey players start at 20)... I know a lot of these guys just want to play hockey as long as you can... if you are an OHLer who does it and then strikes out for the low minors you won't complete the duo until you're say 27-30 if you figure a minor-pro career of 2-3 years plus the 4-6 it'll take to do college.

It really is no small thing... graduate (or nearly graduate) at 24... 2 years behind some of your peers... come out with very few school related bills and loans... have the opporunity to proceed to minor hockey if its available.

The problem is people aways think in terms of the best case scenario often out of not knowing what can happen in these situations... then again that happens when you're being sold dreams.

edit: I wonder how much the "who needs college" idea holds up in Canadian hockey circles? I know anti-intellectualism thrives in some cultures... could we have a strain of it in the major junior circuits?

manurespreader
06-17-2010, 04:33 PM
Interesting swami.
I wonder what percentage of NCAA kids graduate and about how much their financial package was worth overall.
If we knew how much does that average NCAA player actually got when he was done playing vs how much does the average OHL player actually got when he's done, it would be an interesting comparison.

Runninwiththedogs
06-17-2010, 04:45 PM
I wonder how many OHLers advance on to pro hockey... I'm not defending them... but I'm sure a lot of these guys will try to toil in their dreams for a few years... but by then they'll be in their mid-20s and see school as a 4 year (probably more) experience while they have to deal with other issues (families they may have started... being able to pay for being a student in general). Nevertheless, that can go along way into players becoming college students later on... I don't care enough to investigate the particulars of what the OHL gives them (and how soon they have to use it)... but, yeah... its not waiting out there for them.

College gives you an opportunity to go to school and play until you're 24 (we know so many hockey players start at 20)... I know a lot of these guys just want to play hockey as long as you can... if you are an OHLer who does it and then strikes out for the low minors you won't complete the duo until you're say 27-30 if you figure a minor-pro career of 2-3 years plus the 4-6 it'll take to do college.

It really is no small thing... graduate (or nearly graduate) at 24... 2 years behind some of your peers... come out with very few school related bills and loans... have the opporunity to proceed to minor hockey if its available.

The problem is people aways think in terms of the best case scenario often out of not knowing what can happen in these situations... then again that happens when you're being sold dreams.

edit: I wonder how much the "who needs college" idea holds up in Canadian hockey circles? I know anti-intellectualism thrives in some cultures... could we have a strain of it in the major junior circuits?

Are you making a point here? I don't see one.

This is cliche, but... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY

IrishHockeyFan
06-17-2010, 06:39 PM
Interesting swami.
I wonder what percentage of NCAA kids graduate and about how much their financial package was worth overall.
If we knew how much does that average NCAA player actually got when he was done playing vs how much does the average OHL player actually got when he's done, it would be an interesting comparison.

According to the Knight Commission (http://www.knightcommission.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=427:november-18-2009-79-percent-of-student-athletes-graduate-but-football-basketball-and-baseball-players-lag-behind&catid=1&Itemid=11) in a report released last year the NCAA claims nearly 80% of NCAA student-athletes who entered college between 1999 and 2002 graduated within 6 years. Men's basketball and baseball and football have lower rates, and hockey, as well as some other sports, have an even higher rate at many schools. I believe in a press release trumpeting the latest APR scores, the NCAA even singles out hockey as being exceptional.

IrishHockeyFan
06-17-2010, 06:45 PM
edit: I wonder how much the "who needs college" idea holds up in Canadian hockey circles? I know anti-intellectualism thrives in some cultures... could we have a strain of it in the major junior circuits?

Anti-intellectualism in some cultures and its impact on the education (or lack thereof) of some people is something worthy of a thread of its own, but I could see it very quickly devolving into a flame-fest of epic proportions. Could be fun :D .

sbkbghockey
06-17-2010, 07:10 PM
Very interesting article, something a lot of parents and players dont realize when they're looking into options. This is info parents of 16-17 yr olds need to know.

Runninwiththedogs
06-17-2010, 07:13 PM
It is no secret that it's hard to be a student-athlete. I can't imagine how hard it would be if most of your teammates have lots of free time while you are studying. In college, at least all the guys are in the same situation.

Henry
06-17-2010, 07:15 PM
I have been lambasted here because I said I thought the "style" of junior hockey was more suited to some players going pro. I never meant to suggest that foregoing schooling was a good idea. Canadian Junior hockey is a business, a very lucrative business. Treating a teen age kid like a mini NHL er for a few years can be quite a draw for the young man. Unfortunately the young man frequently fails to plan for the future ( not making the NHL). Of course getting a college degree insures a better future for a player than playing hockey night and day for four or five years. After reading this article I would never recommend a young man forego a college education for Junior hockey. It's very cynical and duplicitous to dangle carrots in front of naive young men. Obviously the league figures these kids will go to the ECHL etc. and let them off the hook for the "scholarship". I stand corrected. An education and a better life is far more important than a Junior Hockey :o lottery ticket.

dggoddard
06-18-2010, 10:20 AM
Using the Cam Fowler example of the $50,000 per year scholarship to Notre Dame mentioned in the article.

College Hockey Inc would be well advised to come up with a pamphlet for prospects that would list the "true value" of a four year scholarship to Notre Dame, BC, Michigan, DU, Wisconsin and the other 53 D-1 schools.

Notre Dame
4 years Tuition & Housing $200,000
Books $3,000
4 years Weight Training $35,000
4 years Full Time Medical Attention & Insurance $25,000
Unlimited Ice Time $25,000
Nutritionists & Dietitians $10,000
Academic Tutors $5,000
Air Fares & Hotels $35,000
& so on....

Add up the numbers and it probably comes to $750,000 or more "TAX FREE"

Then tell the parents to get the OHL to match that package.

4four4
06-18-2010, 12:51 PM
Using the Cam Fowler example of the $50,000 per year scholarship to Notre Dame mentioned in the article.

College Hockey Inc would be well advised to come up with a pamphlet for prospects that would list the "true value" of a four year scholarship to Notre Dame, BC, Michigan, DU, Wisconsin and the other 53 D-1 schools.

Notre Dame
4 years Tuition & Housing $200,000
Books $3,000
4 years Weight Training $35,000
4 years Full Time Medical Attention & Insurance $25,000
Unlimited Ice Time $25,000
Nutritionists & Dietitians $10,000
Academic Tutors $5,000
Air Fares & Hotels $35,000
& so on....

Add up the numbers and it probably comes to $750,000 or more "TAX FREE"

Then tell the parents to get the OHL to match that package.

Brilliant!

aparch
06-18-2010, 01:15 PM
Very interesting article, something a lot of parents and players dont realize when they're looking into options. This is info parents of 16-17 yr olds need to know.

That age is too late. By 16, these kids are already signed and delivered to the CHL.

jmh
06-18-2010, 01:32 PM
Using the Cam Fowler example of the $50,000 per year scholarship to Notre Dame mentioned in the article.

College Hockey Inc would be well advised to come up with a pamphlet for prospects that would list the "true value" of a four year scholarship to Notre Dame, BC, Michigan, DU, Wisconsin and the other 53 D-1 schools.

Notre Dame
4 years Tuition & Housing $200,000
Books $3,000
4 years Weight Training $35,000
4 years Full Time Medical Attention & Insurance $25,000
Unlimited Ice Time $25,000
Nutritionists & Dietitians $10,000
Academic Tutors $5,000
Air Fares & Hotels $35,000
& so on....

Add up the numbers and it probably comes to $750,000 or more "TAX FREE"

Then tell the parents to get the OHL to match that package.How does a combination of numbers adding to $338,000 all of a sudden become "$750,000 or more"? :confused:

I mean, the only thing on that list that you get in the NCAA that you don't get in major junior is tuition/books/tutoring, and do you really think high-end players who come down from Canada to play at Maine or UND or whatever for a year or two and then go pro are even all that interested in those?

Osorojo
06-18-2010, 03:36 PM
It is no secret that it's hard to be a student-athlete. I can't imagine how hard it would be if most of your teammates have lots of free time while you are studying. In college, at least all the guys are in the same situation.

Suggested edit for your last sentence:

"In college, at least in theory if not in practice, all the guys are in the same situation."

Academic expectations and their enforcement vary widely from one school to the next. Financial compensation for athletes varies even more from one school to another.

The activities of the OHL sound much like U.S. schools and their "one-and-out" scholarship awards.

dggoddard
06-18-2010, 04:14 PM
How does a combination of numbers adding to $338,000 all of a sudden become "$750,000 or more"? :confused:

I mean, the only thing on that list that you get in the NCAA that you don't get in major junior is tuition/books/tutoring, and do you really think high-end players who come down from Canada to play at Maine or UND or whatever for a year or two and then go pro are even all that interested in those?
I didn't include everything ("and so on"), but we've run these numbers on the DU thread in the past and its come in well over $750,000.

Take medical insurance as just one example. If a player contracted a disease such as meningitis up in Canada (http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20100618/NEWS01/6180335/Officials+declare+meningitis+outbreak), would the family be covered for the player's illness or would the team just cut the player. If the player contracted the disease on an NCAA campus, they'd be covered.

The point of this is not to say the NCAA is "better" than the CHL but to show parents that their kids are getting a huge financial windfall (did I mention TAX FREE!!!) that aren't available to 99% of the population.

Dirty
06-18-2010, 04:42 PM
Suggested edit for your last sentence:

"In college, at least in theory if not in practice, all the guys are in the same situation."

Academic expectations and their enforcement vary widely from one school to the next. Financial compensation for athletes varies even more from one school to another.

The activities of the OHL sound much like U.S. schools and their "one-and-out" scholarship awards.

Suggested edit to all of your posts. Make them as follows:

Runninwiththedogs
06-18-2010, 04:59 PM
Suggested edit for your last sentence:

"In college, at least in theory if not in practice, all the guys are in the same situation."

Academic expectations and their enforcement vary widely from one school to the next. Financial compensation for athletes varies even more from one school to another.

The activities of the OHL sound much like U.S. schools and their "one-and-out" scholarship awards.

If I wanted a copy editor I wouldn't ask for an idiot like you.

Every player on a team in college hockey is a student-athlete. That is untrue for every player on a team in MJ. Do you understand now?