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hawkhockey
05-07-2010, 11:23 AM
does anyone have any information on the annual cost to field a DI hockey team,with or without scholarships?

Puck Swami
05-07-2010, 11:37 AM
That's a loaded question.

There are so many considerations - existing or start-up? Own ice vs rented ice? Full scholarships or cost-containment (reduced or no scholarships)? Bussing to games or flying? Big name coaches or local coaches? Revenue producing or just opportunity-producing? Local recruiting or national recruiting?

A big time WCHA program costs about $1.5-2.5 million a year to run all in, while a small time program in AHA with little to no scholies and rented ice might be less than $500,000 to run.

Pick your poision.

davyd83
05-07-2010, 12:11 PM
That's a loaded question.

There are so many considerations - existing or start-up? Own ice vs rented ice? Full scholarships or cost-containment (reduced or no scholarships)? Bussing to games or flying? Big name coaches or local coaches? Revenue producing or just opportunity-producing? Local recruiting or national recruiting?

A big time WCHA program costs about $1.5-2.5 million a year to run all in, while a small time program in AHA with little to no scholies and rented ice might be less than $500,000 to run.

Pick your poision.

There are CCHA and WCHA teams that operate under $500K while others triple that.

Willie Plett
05-07-2010, 12:14 PM
There are CCHA and WCHA teams that operate under $500K while others triple that.

Knowone in the WCHA operates under 500K. There are WCHA women's programs that don't operate below 500K!

dggoddard
05-07-2010, 12:33 PM
For the top WCHA teams there's probably no telling what the real numbers are.

Minnesota draws 10,000 fans per game, had 19 home games last season and the average ticket price was probably north of $25. That's $4.75 million in revenue right there. Add in parking, concessions, advertising, seat licenses or mandatory donations, merchandise, Final Five/WCHA revenue and TV and thats another $2-3 million. So maybe $7-8 million in revenue.

We all know the Gopher hockey program makes money and kicks back funds to the Athletic Department. I'd be shocked if they weren't spending at least $3 million.

Puck Swami
05-07-2010, 12:46 PM
There are CCHA and WCHA teams that operate under $500K while others triple that.

Don't make the mistake of confusing "operating expenses" as the same as a "program budget". They are not the same thing.

Operating expenses are costs like travel and equipment, but do not include the biggest line items such as coaching salaries and scholarship costs, which which make up the most of a program's overall budget.

Operating expenses are usually around $150K to $750K, but when you add in the other stuff, it balloons into the millions.

Ralph Baer
05-07-2010, 01:05 PM
Don't make the mistake of confusing "operating expenses" as the same as a "program budget". They are not the same thing.

Operating expenses are costs like travel and equipment, but do not include the biggest line items such as coaching salaries and scholarship costs, which which make up the most of a program's overall budget.

Operating expenses are usually around $150K to $750K, but when you add in the other stuff, it balloons into the millions.

The scholarship cost part must be significantly more at private schools than at state schools.

Puck Swami
05-07-2010, 01:46 PM
The scholarship cost part must be significantly more at private schools than at state schools.

True. Private schools offer no instate discounts, and costs can easily top $50K per year a lot of private hockey schools like RPI, DU, CC, BC, BU, etc., whereas public schools like UMASS, Minnesota and Michigan not only cost less to start, but they can more easily further discount by splitting scholarships among in-state prospects, to reduce the overall costs and increase depth. The private schools have a much tougher time getting qualified walk ons than do state schools.

That said, scholarship "costs" can be deceiving. Most hockey programs get "charged" the cost of the scholarship by the school so it comes out of the program's budget, but the school is also providing the scholarship in the first place, so its really an internal transfer payment. Additionally, while college educations are certainly worth the value the colleges charge, the scholarship kids really aren't costing the school that much more to attend classes. The real cost of those getting free or reduced price educations are offset by everyone who is actually paying for it, plus whatever other non-tuition-driven revenue the school is bringing in.

hawkhockey
05-07-2010, 01:51 PM
That's a loaded question.

There are so many considerations - existing or start-up? Own ice vs rented ice? Full scholarships or cost-containment (reduced or no scholarships)? Bussing to games or flying? Big name coaches or local coaches? Revenue producing or just opportunity-producing? Local recruiting or national recruiting?

A big time WCHA program costs about $1.5-2.5 million a year to run all in, while a small time program in AHA with little to no scholies and rented ice might be less than $500,000 to run.

Pick your poision.
an existing DIII program,with rink,no current scholarships,coaches bigvs.local?,bussing vs flying (depends),like to begin at revenue neutral, recruiting:whatever it takes to be competetive in the league they are in.

Puck Swami
05-07-2010, 02:08 PM
an existing DIII program,with rink,no current scholarships,coaches bigvs.local?,bussing vs flying (depends),like to begin at revenue neutral, recruiting:whatever it takes to be competetive in the league they are in.

Generally speaking, most DIII pograms cost $100,000 to $500,000 or so annually. They don't have scholarship costs, they don't fly very often, recruiting costs are minimal and most of the D-III coaches are making less than $100K.

For said DIII hockey program to step up to D-I (assuming the NCAA resumes allowing schools to step up - there is moratoirum on that right now), the whole school athletic program will need to move up to DI, and that is a $20 million minumum investment, and $50-100 million is standard, depending on what kind of sports you are elevating, what facilities you have or need to build/renovate for D-I, and how ambitious the overall program wishes to be - in otherwords, competing regionally is much cheaper than trying to compete nationally.

Happy
05-07-2010, 03:43 PM
The scholarship cost part must be significantly more at private schools than at state schools.

If it all gets paid. Some schools have had endowments or gifts made to cover the costs of the scholarship. I don't know how often, but it does happen. and, if the parents aren't rich, the private school just gets the financial aid department to get the feds to pay part of it, and then they cut the cost. Every one I knows gets some discount, scholarship, etc from a private school, to bring the cost down, almost no one pays full cost.

Shirtless Guy
05-07-2010, 04:22 PM
Generally speaking, most DIII pograms cost $100,000 to $500,000 or so annually. They don't have scholarship costs, they don't fly very often, recruiting costs are minimal and most of the D-III coaches are making less than $100K.

For said DIII hockey program to step up to D-I (assuming the NCAA resumes allowing schools to step up - there is moratoirum on that right now), the whole school athletic program will need to move up to DI, and that is a $20 million minumum investment, and $50-100 million is standard, depending on what kind of sports you are elevating, what facilities you have or need to build/renovate for D-I, and how ambitious the overall program wishes to be - in otherwords, competing regionally is much cheaper than trying to compete nationally.actually there is currently a moratorium on schools moving all their teams up to D1, there is an outright ban on any schools "playing up" in a given sport from DIII.

davyd83
05-07-2010, 06:07 PM
Knowone in the WCHA operates under 500K. There are WCHA women's programs that don't operate below 500K!

I'm pretty sure that someone who can't spell no one doesn't have a reliable stream of information. :eek:

The real Willi Plett would even disagree. (http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4320)

I see you are a student. You must have overpaid tuition for that Basic Spelling 100 class.

sqeyes
05-07-2010, 09:30 PM
I don't know about other schools but Michigan charges out-state tuition for out-state athletes on scholarship. That was a thorn in some sides back when the sport got charged for it. Many schools charge in-state rate for athletes on scholarship no mater where they come from. I think that was one of the reasons the teams push to have this area as an endowment as to relieve the load from the sports budget.