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View Full Version : Boston University Offseason Thread 2: Moving Forward by Booting Forwards



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Gryba Dekes
05-04-2010, 10:47 PM
Is it October yet?

Scarlet
05-04-2010, 10:56 PM
You're not supposed to start a thread till the other one closes. Just like some booted Terriers. Breaking rules and not considering the consequences.

mookie1995
05-04-2010, 11:02 PM
tsk tsk tsk.

how sad.:mad:

WinTheThird
05-04-2010, 11:15 PM
Ok let me preface my post by saying that 1) I am a huge Jack Parker fan. I look up to him as a human being. 2) I am not a fan of either Saponari, never have been.

That being said, I'm not particularly happy or unhappy with this whole situation. I think that underage drinking, breaking team rules (especially while on scholarship), and distasteful musical infractions should not go unpunished. However, I don't think I'm happy with the way Jack handled this. I think that aside from any information that the coaching staff recently received, any transgressions that occurred during the year should have been responded to with increasing levels of punishment. I think leaving disciplinary action until the end of the year is foolish and obviously allowed for the rule breaking to continue.

Based on all the information gathered on Vinny's behavior, he may, in fact, have been a bad influence on the team, and the team may, in fact, be better off without him. But back up a little bit, forget for a moment the details of the Saponari cuts, and look at Parker's coaching recently. Does anyone else take issue with the fact that this is the 2nd time in 3 years that Parker has cut players as a way to deal with individual problem players as well as address team wide morale and motivational problems? ESPECIALLY after he just took a season off and practically stood by and watched this year's captains fail to motivate. Like I said, I think Jack Parker is an amazing man, but I think if he is to live up to the legendary reputation he has earned, he needs to find a way to fix problems before they become catastrophes and do so in a way that doesn't completely uproot and change people's lives. And I acknowledge that Saponari-gate and Bennett-gate are vastly different, but he needs to be more creative in the way he coaches and inspires his team to be committed.

I am so torn about this whole situation. Vic and Vinny definitely deserve to be punished (Trivino and Kraus too, but they're not the hot topic here). They may even deserve to be cut from the team, but this does highlight the problems Parker is having. I hope it hasn't gotten to the point that his only means of controlling his players' behavior and inspiring them to be dedicated is threatening to kick them off the team. ..

Agganis
05-04-2010, 11:18 PM
I actually think our offseason is so eventful we should have multiple offseason threads running at the same time, one for guessing next year's schedule and projecting lines, one for current players' transgressions, and maybe even a third for reminiscing. At minimum it would mean if Hokydad moves into one we still have another place to converse.

Bomber
05-04-2010, 11:40 PM
I actually think our offseason is so eventful we should have multiple offseason threads running at the same time, one for guessing next year's schedule and projecting lines, one for current players' transgressions, and maybe even a third for reminiscing. At minimum it would mean if Hokydad moves into one we still have another place to converse.

:)

J.D.
05-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Ok let me preface my post by saying that 1) I am a huge Jack Parker fan. I look up to him as a human being.

Stop. Seek help. :p

ericredaxe
05-05-2010, 08:12 AM
Does anyone else take issue with the fact that this is the 2nd time in 3 years that Parker has cut players as a way to deal with individual problem players as well as address team wide morale and motivational problems? ESPECIALLY after he just took a season off and practically stood by and watched this year's captains fail to motivate.

Nope, I like it.

The two situations are very different... Bennett was just not getting the job done, and can you imagine 09 if he had NOT released Bennett?!?!

As for this year, I think it would be safe to assume that this was an ongoing problem, and it was quite likely that attempts were made to change to the behavior of #27 et al, and it finally came to this.

Personally, I dont think its fair to blame any of the lack of motivation on the coaching staff... I mean, come on, if you choose to go out drinking less than 48 hours before the biggest game of the year, then you are not motivatied.... basically you are saying you don't care... and there isn't going to be much a coach can say or do at that point.

Slasher7
05-05-2010, 09:06 AM
No flames here, but I think Parker did the right thing. A couple of kids like that can ruin a locker room. That being said, what do you guys think about Parker doing this stuff publicly for all to see instead of merely kicking them out and keeping the details in house?

Scarlet
05-05-2010, 09:12 AM
No flames here, but I think Parker did the right thing. A couple of kids like that can ruin a locker room. That being said, what do you guys think about Parker doing this stuff publicly for all to see instead of merely kicking them out and keeping the details in house?

Quite honestly, I think he's ****ed if he does, ****ed if he doesn't. If he had dismissed those players and didn't say anything, he'd be accused of keeping information from people. It would leak, because one of the Saponaris would talk, and so forth. No one is ever happy how things like this are handled.

Bomber
05-05-2010, 09:22 AM
I'm posting this here (from now dead thread) because I seem to be in the minority on this and I'm curious if anyone else has thoughts on this.


Originally Posted by Puck Swami
I think you may be looking at the symptoms and missing the disease. You are trying to connect offenses and punishments and look for rationale. That's not what Parker is doing, in my opnion. The dismissal was 'cumulative', and probably had much more to do with less specific surface offenses like drinking or missing practice and much more to about general attitude, team chemisty, and influence on others. Jack Parker is a legend who has been coaching for 35+ years and has seen a lot of hockey players come and go. If he believes it's in his team's best interest to dismiss a player, you should give him the benefit of the doubt. He may have had any number of reasons for waiting as long as he did. Perhaps he wanted to see improvements. Perhaps he needed to line-up his replacements. Maybe there were outside inlfluences. The fact the both brothers were dismissed leads me to believe he was trying to remove a bad situation...


That's all fine and good, but we've been down this road before and, as it turns out, he was wrong. I feel like the commitment to play hockey at a D1 school goes both ways. Shouldn't the coaching staff work harder to make a situation work? Why so quick to cut bait? (Is there counseling for these situations? )

I guess what I'm saying is, did Vinny sleep with 100 women (and the baby-sitter) or did he flirt a bit, wreck the car, and burn the pot roast? I hope Jack's not tossing out post roast burners.

BU Hockey: D-I-V-O-R-C-E

Rover
05-05-2010, 09:26 AM
Agree with Winthethird here.

While I support Parker's decision, the bottom line is it is his primary responsibility to get these kids to play hard and by the rules. Why is he being paid like 300K a year if he can't do that? Last year's team performance falls directly on him. One or two players dogging it is an individual problem. The whole team doing so is on the coaches. I'll say again, you don't see "lack of effort" as a recurring problem up the road on Jerry York's watch. Why is that?


So yes, boot Saponari if he's the ringleader and it shows that nobody is untouchable. However, he can't keep threatening to drop the ax on people year after year (I had no idea about the Cohen incident, that would have been 3 years in a row of dismissals). Pretty soon that's going to kill recruiting. If Parker can't reach the kids anymore, he needs to think about doing the AD job full time.

I'm curious how the team responds. Yes, they've lost a lot of people this year and it may take a couple of years to recover. Here's what I am looking for: 1) Impact recruits, and 2) 100% effort. The program can't afford the lost years after the last national championship when recruiting went into the toilet. We also need to see that these actions have had an effect on the rest of the team. If they haven't, its safe to conclude based on this incident and the past 15 years that something's missing in the players-coach relationship and as there's no other levers to pull its time for an overhaul.

jcarter7669
05-05-2010, 09:30 AM
Quite honestly, I think he's ****ed if he does, ****ed if he doesn't. If he had dismissed those players and didn't say anything, he'd be accused of keeping information from people. It would leak, because one of the Saponaris would talk, and so forth. No one is ever happy how things like this are handled.

I don't know about that. Sneddon made a very short and generic statement that said basically zilch when he dissmissed UVM's second leading scorer 3/4 of the way through the season.

No one gave him any ****. It leaked and people I think basically figured out on their own. Milo gave almost and identical interview as was posted by BU hammer on Saponari. But, no one really gave Sneddon a hard time.

I think a simple, these guys are being dismissed for the benefit of the team suffices.

mookie1995
05-05-2010, 09:38 AM
Just a note-rover, ZC & Smolinsky would have followed in the wake of BB. Three that year, break, two this year... Not three years in a row.

Beantownhitter
05-05-2010, 09:39 AM
[QUOTE=Bomber;4768147]I'm posting this here (from now dead thread) because I seem to be in the minority on this and I'm curious if anyone else has thoughts on this.




That's all fine and good, but we've been down this road before and, as it turns out, he was wrong. I feel like the commitment to play hockey at a D1 school goes both ways. Shouldn't the coaching staff work harder to make a situation work? Why so quick to cut bait? (Is there counseling for these situations? )

Bomber, isn't it just as likely that the commitment that the coaching staff made to these players wasn't being returned? And that after working hard enough over time to get the message across that behavior and attitudes needed to change that a decision was made that whatever positives these players brought to the program were outweighed by the negatives? Maybe it took longer than we think to cut the bait. In that case, if these actions suggest Parker is moving closer to holding all players accountable for their actions, both potential stars and the grinders, then it's about time.

Slasher7
05-05-2010, 09:42 AM
Quite honestly, I think he's ****ed if he does, ****ed if he doesn't. If he had dismissed those players and didn't say anything, he'd be accused of keeping information from people. It would leak, because one of the Saponaris would talk, and so forth. No one is ever happy how things like this are handled.

You're probably right. I think of the Motherwell/O'Hanley thing at BC. They were booted and neither said a word afterwards. I think a case can be made to be the first to speak, but I think a coach needs to take the high road sometimes though.

TimP
05-05-2010, 09:42 AM
Is anyone really surprised that Jack Parker is trying to shift blame from himself to his players?

Keep slamming your players in the press and keep cutting them out of personal frustration. The word is out: even though you can't get in at BC, there are better places to go than the diploma mill down the road.

Nick Papagiorgio
05-05-2010, 10:04 AM
Not to start trouble... I'm not trying to flame here. But...

I am having a hard time seeing the quote "conduct unbecoming of a BU hockey player" from Parker in light of these recent dismissals yet back in 2003 when John Sabo destroyed a kid's face outside of The Avenue, he didn't even suspend the kid. Am I crazy or does that seem like "conduct unbecoming" of basically a human being?

Whether or not these kids were good dismissals or were cancerous in the locker room or bad examples for the team ... I don't know. But I find it difficult to believe these kids were displaying bad conduct while Sabo did not according to Parker. Or he's changing the rules as he goes.

Slasher7
05-05-2010, 10:06 AM
Not to start trouble... I'm not trying to flame here. But...

I am having a hard time seeing the quote "conduct unbecoming of a BU hockey player" from Parker in light of these recent dismissals yet back in 2003 when John Sabo destroyed a kid's face outside of The Avenue, he didn't even suspend the kid. Am I crazy or does that seem like "conduct unbecoming" of basically a human being?

Whether or not these kids were good dismissals or were cancerous in the locker room or bad examples for the team ... I don't know. But I find it difficult to believe these kids were displaying bad conduct while Sabo did not according to Parker. Or he's changing the rules as he goes.

Looking at the title of this thread "Booting Forwards", I assumed it was about John Sabo...:)

Puck Swami
05-05-2010, 10:13 AM
I think BU fans have every right to question their coach in matters like this, but at the end of the day, I'd still put my trust in Parker. In 35+ years, he's won a lot of hardware and shaped a lot raw teenagers into the grown men that they eventually become.

JP is an old-school coach who isn't there to be friends with his players, who already know when they sign with BU that he's very tough on players when they screw up. He is an intimidating man who demands high standards from his players - the kind of guy they don't enjoy all that much while they are at BU, but they appreciate later in life because he's shaping their lives in the right direction.

Parker has seen every type of player and every of type locker room dynamic out there. Over the years, he's quietly and privately fixed hundreds of players and bad locker room situtations that we as fans will never see. That's his job. And when he (or his staff) realize that simply can't fix the issue, he's not afraid to dismiss players. He's doing it for the benefit of his team, and he's doing it as a deterrent to others.

That's not to say that coaches are perfect. Parker has made mistakes as all coaches do. But I think when anyone does something as well as Parker does for as long as he's done it, he's probably right a lot more often than he's wrong. Dismissing a player is usually the last thing a coach wants to do, and I am sure a ton of thought, consultation and dilberation went into the process.