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Osorojo
04-22-2010, 05:56 PM
Division I college hockey programs should follow the successful reorganization of Olympic hockey as it turned from amateur to professional. It's easy: just replace the name of the country with the name of the school.

Junior hockey progams are numerous, the players are talented, and Junior Hockey wishes to attract more paying fans. College hockey programs have large numbers of devoted fans and hockey rinks. Simply rename Junior Hockey teams with the names of the colleges the Junior teams agree to represent! The players could live near campus and practice and play in the college's rink. The players could dress up in the college's uniforms and play many more games a year than a college team burdened by academic expectations.

The college would be spared the costs of coaches and trainers, conserve classroom space and professors' time, and avoid the embarrassing need to suspend academic and admission standards. College funds previously used for athletic scholarships could be used for academic scholarships instead. The renamed Junior teams would attract fans from both town and gown. This larger fan base and larger game schedule would result in greater profits, which the Junior hockey program could split with the colleges. The quality of "college" hockey would improve, the popularity of hockey would grow, revenue would increase, and abuse of academic standards would decrease. What more could college hockey fans desire?

Flashy Man
04-22-2010, 06:03 PM
There are many reason that this would be a bad idea. The one I'll mention is that the student bodies would no longer associate with the teams because the lack of academic requirements of the players. As much of college hockey takes place in the smaller educational institutions of this country, students wouldn't associate with the team because the players would not be attending the classes that the average student is enrolled in.

Puck Swami
04-22-2010, 06:04 PM
Division I college hockey programs should follow the successful reorganization of Olympic hockey as it turned from amateur to professional. It's easy: just replace the name of the country with the name of the school.

Junior hockey progams are numerous, the players are talented, and Junior Hockey wishes to attract more paying fans. College hockey programs have large numbers of devoted fans and hockey rinks. Simply rename Junior Hockey teams with the names of the colleges the Junior teams agree to represent! The players could live near campus and practice and play in the college's rink. The players could dress up in the college's uniforms and play many more games a year than a college team burdened by academic expectations.

The college would be spared the costs of coaches and trainers, conserve classroom space and professors' time, and avoid the embarrassing need to suspend academic and admission standards. College funds previously used for athletic scholarships could be used for academic scholarships instead. The renamed Junior teams would attract fans from both town and gown. This larger fan base and larger game schedule would result in greater profits, which the Junior hockey program could split with the colleges. The quality of "college" hockey would improve, the popularity of hockey would grow, revenue would increase, and abuse of academic standards would decrease. What more could college hockey fans desire?

You are an intelligent guy who writes well, but you really seem to be angered about a problem that doesn't really exist. College Hockey does NOT have serious academic issues like football or basketball does. It just doesn't. Our players graduate at a terrific rate of about 80% - a rate above the all-student rates at NCAA schools. The very few players that do leave early for the pros often come back and finish their degrees. Our players are almost universally articulate, productive and can handle college level work. If you are really concerned about academic integrity, you should focus on other sports where the need is far more acute, and the athletes can't do college work.

MarkEagleUSA
04-22-2010, 06:05 PM
What more could college hockey fans desire?Ummm... how about watching college hockey players? To me, college hockey is more than just the product we see on the ice.

NMU8405
04-22-2010, 06:15 PM
Ummm... how about watching college hockey players? To me, college hockey is more than just the product we see on the ice.

Yeah, Its MY team. I attend school, and they represent me. Not some junior hockey team. If I wanted to watch Junior hockey, Id go watch Junior Hockey.

Why dont you like college hockey? Couldnt get into your favorite school? Ferris State will take you (like with half the people who cheer for Michigan and cant get accepted).

Patman
04-22-2010, 06:34 PM
You are an intelligent guy who writes well, but you really seem to be angered about a problem that doesn't really exist. College Hockey does NOT have serious academic issues like football or basketball does. It just doesn't. Our players graduate at a terrific rate of about 80% - a rate above the all-student rates at NCAA schools. The very few players that do leave early for the pros often come back and finish their degrees. Our players are almost universally articulate, productive and can handle college level work. If you are really concerned about academic integrity, you should focus on other sports where the need is far more acute, and the athletes can't do college work.

Swami... why even take this post seriously?

Here's the obvious problem... what is to stop the teams from associating with the school? What is to stop them from associating with bigger schools? Why would they associate with the schools and not Bill's Tavern?

This idea flies about as far as the overweight novice hang-gliders club

FlagDUDE08
04-23-2010, 05:58 AM
The closest you will ever get to this happening is a non-major junior team being a farm for college players. Even then, the rights aren't exclusive.

As was previously said, if I want to watch juniors, I will drive up to Cornwall and watch it.

jcarter7669
04-23-2010, 06:14 AM
Umm, yeah great idea. :rolleyes:

You seemed to be very concerned with academics over athletics so let me ask you this....under your proposal would more or less of these athletes get a college degree?

How many college players go on to play in the pros? How many go on to use their degrees?

College is college and the athletes are there primarily to get an education. The rate at which these athletes do NOT get a degree is less then the drop out rate for most schools. In fact most hockey programs encourage students to do well, academic performance or lack there of will get even the best players benched.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
04-23-2010, 06:30 AM
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TimU
04-23-2010, 07:27 AM
Division I college hockey programs should follow the successful reorganization of Olympic hockey as it turned from amateur to professional. It's easy: just replace the name of the country with the name of the school.

Junior hockey progams are numerous, the players are talented, and Junior Hockey wishes to attract more paying fans. College hockey programs have large numbers of devoted fans and hockey rinks. Simply rename Junior Hockey teams with the names of the colleges the Junior teams agree to represent! The players could live near campus and practice and play in the college's rink. The players could dress up in the college's uniforms and play many more games a year than a college team burdened by academic expectations.

The college would be spared the costs of coaches and trainers, conserve classroom space and professors' time, and avoid the embarrassing need to suspend academic and admission standards. College funds previously used for athletic scholarships could be used for academic scholarships instead. The renamed Junior teams would attract fans from both town and gown. This larger fan base and larger game schedule would result in greater profits, which the Junior hockey program could split with the colleges. The quality of "college" hockey would improve, the popularity of hockey would grow, revenue would increase, and abuse of academic standards would decrease. What more could college hockey fans desire?

Or, if the rest of the world is really so hopelessly corrupt, you could just stop watching non-Ivy League college hockey games.

leswp1
04-23-2010, 08:56 AM
You are an intelligent guy who writes well, but you really seem to be angered about a problem that doesn't really exist. College Hockey does NOT have serious academic issues like football or basketball does. It just doesn't. Our players graduate at a terrific rate of about 80% - a rate above the all-student rates at NCAA schools. The very few players that do leave early for the pros often come back and finish their degrees. Our players are almost universally articulate, productive and can handle college level work. If you are really concerned about academic integrity, you should focus on other sports where the need is far more acute, and the athletes can't do college work.

Spot on.

Osorojo- your persistant posting on this makes me wonder what is really the root of this? Must be something that makes you leap to assumptions about college hockey. I have been exposed to the inner workings of it for >25 yrs and I just don't see what you are seeing.

Osorojo
04-23-2010, 09:16 AM
Or, if the rest of the world is really so hopelessly corrupt, you could just stop watching non-Ivy League college hockey games.

The future is approaching, and with it comes change. Remember amateur Olympic hockey? The majority of Div. I hockey schools may be doing a stellar job maintaining academic standards AND a hockey program, but there are great and growing economic pressures against doing so.

Division I college football and basketball schools may have once been immune to lowered admission and academic standards encouraged by these teams. Most observers agree this is no longer the case. Some fans take comfort in the argument that hockey is and always will be a minor sport, so Division I hockey schools will remain immune to the abuses regularly uncovered in football/basketball mills masquerading as academically oriented undertakings.

The "Hockey will always be a minor sport" argument seems a somewhat perverse form of wishful thinking when it is used to dismiss the probability that college hockey programs will increrasingly suffer from the same abuses
seen in college football and basketball mills. (eg. 0% graduation rate for seven years from Cincinnati's NCAA-endorsed basketball team)

The suggestion that Junior Hockey players replace amateur student hockey players may sound far-fetched and even a bit satirical, but I suspect it is happening in some schools at this moment, and the trend will grow. You haven't noticed? It wasn't a fish who discovered water.

As in Olympic hockey, "What once were vices now are virtues."

jcarter7669
04-23-2010, 09:28 AM
The future is approaching, and with it comes change. Remember amateur Olympic hockey? The majority of Div. I hockey schools may be doing a stellar job maintaining academic standards AND a hockey program, but there are great and growing economic pressures against doing so.

Division I college football and basketball schools may have once been immune to lowered admission and academic standards encouraged by these teams. Most observers agree this is no longer the case. Some fans take comfort in the argument that hockey is and always will be a minor sport, so Division I hockey schools will remain immune to the abuses regularly uncovered in football/basketball mills masquerading as academically oriented undertakings.

The "Hockey will always be a minor sport" argument seems a somewhat perverse form of wishful thinking when it is used to dismiss the probability that college hockey programs will increrasingly suffer from the same abuses
seen in college football and basketball mills. (eg. 0% graduation rate for seven years from Cincinnati's NCAA-endorsed basketball team)

The suggestion that Junior Hockey players replace amateur student hockey players may sound far-fetched and even a bit satirical, but I suspect it is happening in some schools at this moment, and the trend will grow. You haven't noticed? It wasn't a fish who discovered water.

As in Olympic hockey, "What once were vices now are virtues."

Nice deflection. Since hockey isn't a problem switch to football and basketball, then throw in an economy excuse. I'm anticipating the next post will blame it on Bush.

A fish didn't discover water? W_T_F_ is that supposed to mean?

Puck Swami
04-23-2010, 10:22 AM
The future is approaching, and with it comes change. Remember amateur Olympic hockey? The majority of Div. I hockey schools may be doing a stellar job maintaining academic standards AND a hockey program, but there are great and growing economic pressures against doing so.

Division I college football and basketball schools may have once been immune to lowered admission and academic standards encouraged by these teams. Most observers agree this is no longer the case. Some fans take comfort in the argument that hockey is and always will be a minor sport, so Division I hockey schools will remain immune to the abuses regularly uncovered in football/basketball mills masquerading as academically oriented undertakings.

The "Hockey will always be a minor sport" argument seems a somewhat perverse form of wishful thinking when it is used to dismiss the probability that college hockey programs will increrasingly suffer from the same abuses
seen in college football and basketball mills. (eg. 0% graduation rate for seven years from Cincinnati's NCAA-endorsed basketball team)

The suggestion that Junior Hockey players replace amateur student hockey players may sound far-fetched and even a bit satirical, but I suspect it is happening in some schools at this moment, and the trend will grow. You haven't noticed? It wasn't a fish who discovered water.

As in Olympic hockey, "What once were vices now are virtues."

I read your cautionary tale, but I am not worried as you are. Yes, investments in college hockey have increased in recent years, teams play before larger crowds and TV cameras, and there is an increasing sense that college hockey is becoming more of "big-time" sport. That's progress in my book. You see "big time" and assume that our sport is headed for the same moral bankruptcy and lack of academic success that plague college football and basketball, but the fundamental underpinnings are totally different.

The reason is socio-economic, and yes, race plays a big role. Despite the best efforts of the NHL to promote diversity and say "Hockey is for Everyone" hockey is still not popular in places where money is in short supply, or where education is not valued.

Academics have taken a backseat in football and basketball because there are huge talent pools of incredibly talented athletes who come from poorly educated, economically disadvantged backgrounds where education is either lousy or not valued by families (or both), resulting in ill-prepared and un-academically motivated athletes. Football and basketball coaches are pressured to win now, and with the large pools of these talented, undereducated athletes available to them, it's no wonder that you have the poor graduation rates and players not prepared for academic work.

Hockey is different. Hockey draws it's athletes from a wholly different socio-economic base. The fundamental economic basis of North American hockey players has shifted from a game played by the undereducated farmers and miners 60 years ago to a high-cost, highly structured, mostly suburban game played with upscale expectations. Most hockey players now come primarily from middle to upper income backgrounds where education is important and valued.

Sure, there are economic pressures on some players to turn pro, but for most of them, it's not a matter of providing for basics their families as it is the opportunity to take advantage of an economic doorway to lifetime financial security, and sometimes for testy hockey parents to see a return on their own extensive investment of resources (money, time and effort) into developing not-so-little Johnny's hockey career.

Sure there is some economic pressure on D-I hockey programs to win. But unlike football and basketball, there is no large secondary population of talented hockey players who can't do college work to enroll and never graduate. Those few hockey players who can't handle college work play Major Junior, and even in Major juniors, probably 75% of the players could do college work if they felt like it.

Someday, if hockey really becomes popular among people with limited financial means, you might start to have some issues, but for now, hockey is a sport played mostly by educated players and families who already have money, and as such, is in little danger of academic failure.

4four4
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
Speaking of graduation and low standards a great movie the "Blindside" is a must see for everyone.

Kepler
04-23-2010, 12:59 PM
Or, if the rest of the world is really so hopelessly corrupt, you could just stop watching non-Ivy League college hockey games.

He'll still get the ECAC title game. ;)

I worry about academics taking a back seat to athletics, but comparing hockey's problem to hoops and football is comparing shoplifting to mass murder.

Slasher7
04-23-2010, 02:38 PM
Division I college hockey programs should follow the successful reorganization of Olympic hockey as it turned from amateur to professional. It's easy: just replace the name of the country with the name of the school.

Junior hockey progams are numerous, the players are talented, and Junior Hockey wishes to attract more paying fans. College hockey programs have large numbers of devoted fans and hockey rinks. Simply rename Junior Hockey teams with the names of the colleges the Junior teams agree to represent! The players could live near campus and practice and play in the college's rink. The players could dress up in the college's uniforms and play many more games a year than a college team burdened by academic expectations.

The college would be spared the costs of coaches and trainers, conserve classroom space and professors' time, and avoid the embarrassing need to suspend academic and admission standards. College funds previously used for athletic scholarships could be used for academic scholarships instead. The renamed Junior teams would attract fans from both town and gown. This larger fan base and larger game schedule would result in greater profits, which the Junior hockey program could split with the colleges. The quality of "college" hockey would improve, the popularity of hockey would grow, revenue would increase, and abuse of academic standards would decrease. What more could college hockey fans desire?

You should get to Washington DC now! With such out of the box thinking, you can fix this entire mess in probably one day. :rolleyes:

Osorojo
04-23-2010, 03:57 PM
You should get to Washington DC now! With such out of the box thinking, you can fix this entire mess in probably one day. :rolleyes:

Good idea. It seems posters to this site have already voted out of existence the possibility that college hockey could face or succumb to the same temptations other Division I college sports programs have succumbed to.

Why not go to D.C. and vote to destroy the probability that past and present evils of every sort will recur in the future?

cycledown
04-23-2010, 08:31 PM
Reform Title IX and college hockey will grow leaps and bounds. From small colleges to large universities, there are millions of high school kids wanting to play at the collgiate level and expansion would not be contraction like you hear on this site all the time. Plain and simple the issue is the short sidedness of Title IX.

redhawkman10
04-23-2010, 09:27 PM
Good idea. It seems posters to this site have already voted out of existence the possibility that college hockey could face or succumb to the same temptations other Division I college sports programs have succumbed to.

Why not go to D.C. and vote to destroy the probability that past and present evils of every sort will recur in the future?

Word out of Berkely California is a tree has opened up.....Id submit your application and climb it asap....:rolleyes: