Americans-Canadians

[IceIsNice]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Hmmm, then this article comes out...........

http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=638619

Funny, the article didn't happen to mention hockey proficiency as a contributing factor, but.......obviously it is...... eh?

[osualum86]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I am an Ohio State grad and I could not care less where the players are from. As the other guy said, if they are wearing an Ohio State hockey sweater, I am cheering for them. I think it's great that we had Tessa Bonhomme from Sudbury, ON, here for four seasons. We also had Emma Laaksonen from Finland and currently, Mintu Tuominen from Finland. It was a treat for me to watch women's hockey in the Olympics because there were four Buckeye women and all of them received medals. Lisa Chesson played for Team USA. As I watched the gold medal game, of course I rooted for my own country (US), but when it was over, I was thrilled that Tessa got a gold medal. Regardless of what countries these young ladies come from, they will always be Buckeyes to me, and one thing about us Buckeye fans, we are very loyal to these kids. I wouldn't trade the Canadian kids or the girls from Finland for anyone. If our coach recruits them and they pick Ohio State, that's fine with me. We're not up to the level that the UMD's and Minnesota's are at, but we are getting closer, and having four Olympians that went through (or are currently involved in) our program can't hurt. I've enjoyed reading through this thread (aside from NJC's posts) and especially enjoy the perspectives of our neighbors to the north.

[Trillium]

Re: Americans-Canadians

The people who would complain about any Canadian receiving a scholarship or having the opportunity to attend a DI school are the same people who would complain about SSM, NAHA or NSA competing in the USA Hockey Nationals. The problem with the trophy generation is that instead of looking at those programs and striving to be like them or more competitive against them "the parents" want to eliminate them all together.

Amen to that. Lots of the same sort up here too.

I'm not sure what the % is of Canadians in DI but I guess that (in some people's minds) the thinking is if the Canadians aren't allowed to play in DI that would better for my daughter.
Can you even imagine the impact on the women's game if Canadians weren't allowed to compete. Oh yes that would be called high school hockey.

Over the past few years the percentage of Canadians in D1 typically hovers between around 40-42%, which is admittedly pretty high. This year the current stat for 2010-11 recruits is 41.4% Canadian, of which 69% are from Ontario. The proportion of Americans year over year actually seems to be edging down slightly. I guess that's what has NJC's panties in a bunch.

[IceIsNice]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I guess that's what has NJC's panties in a bunch.

That, yes....oh and....Mass. Tier II "domination", and Carl Gray being the dictator of all things women's hockey, and.....

Is there a proctologist in the house?

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

The people who would complain about any Canadian receiving a scholarship or having the opportunity to attend a DI school are the same people who would complain about SSM, NAHA or NSA competing in the USA Hockey Nationals. The problem with the trophy generation is that instead of looking at those programs and striving to be like them or more competitive against them "the parents" want to eliminate them all together. I'm not sure what the % is of Canadians in DI but I guess that (in some people's minds) the thinking is if the Canadians aren't allowed to play in DI that would better for my daughter.
Can you even imagine the impact on the women's game if Canadians weren't allowed to compete. Oh yes that would be called high school hockey.

Trophy generation .... That's classic, sums it up perfectly!

[Trillium]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Trillium.....Give me your best assessment of the PWHL this year, as compared to previous years. If you have any other comments you would like to make on the state of hockey in Ontario, please do. I know the gap is tightening in many circles, so let us figure out why, and how good it is for hockey. I wish OnMAA would get get back to us on those stats.

Sorry for the delayed response.

I think in many ways, the PWHL as a whole was better this year than it has ever been--the top teams were better than ever, and the middle teams were much stronger through the ~top 10-12 teams, making for very highly competitive games from #3-12. Unfortunately, there are probably 4-6 too many teams in the league, and there has not been enough high end talent for the bottom 6 teams to be sufficiently competitive with the rest.

The Toronto Aeros and Mississauga Chiefs were a significant step above the other teams in the league. Both had probably the best teams from top to bottom than they have had in many years, if ever. Every game between the two was a nailbiter. Aeros won the Provincial and PWHL titles, as well as the Stoney Can-Am, rolling their lines evenly all year, in all situations. Aeros placed 11 in D1.
Mississauga won Bronze at Provincials, Silver in the PWHL, and won the Stoney Showcase plus a couple other tourneys and placed 4 in D1. These two teams would have matched well versus most D1 teams. Early in the season, the Aeros actually beat Brown and Harvard, and tied Cornell. Both teams return 6 players next year.

Bluewater, Stoney Creek and Ottawa are typically among the top 5-6 teams in the league every year, along with the first 2 teams noted, and this year was no exception. Bluewater won Silver at Provincials and 4th in PWHL, and placed 5 at D1. Stoney Creek won Bronze in the PWHL and placed 7 at D1. Ottawa placed 6 at D1. The biggest difference between these teams and the top 2 is depth, and these 3 each relied much more heavily on their top line players with disproportionate ice time for each to produce. These teams, plus Cambridge and Whitby, had great games versus top US teams including Little Caesars, Chicago Mission, SSM, NAHA, LA Selects in the Can-Am Series' .

The biggest difference this year versus some previous years was that games versus the #6-12 teams weren't "gimmes" this year against the top 5--the usual drop off around that point didn't really exist as much as in the past. Windsor, Cambridge, Kitchener, Whitby, Aurora, London...and even Etobicoke and Brampton at times... gave most of the top end teams many good games.

Durham, which had been a perennial top 5 contender in the first 5 years of the league, dropped to the cellar due to large scale graduations last year, and resulting defections of their few remaining players elsewhere. They are now in a rebuilding phase. Oakville, Hamilton, Burlington, Markham and Etobicoke have had consistent difficulty competing over the past few years and this year was no exception. Many wish these teams would be folded or merged, as there are just too many teams in the Greater Toronto Area too close together. Unfortunately, the PWHL executive lacks the balls to make that happen. The bottom end teams would actually have difficulty beating the top Midget AA teams (Aeros, Stoney Creek, Thunder Bay, Willowdale, Brampton etc) consistently. However, too many players/parents egos won't let them choose Midget over weak PWHL teams.

Many, including myself, are questioning what the impact will be in the PWHL next season. The 89-92 age groups were all strong talentwise, with the 92s the best of the bunch in depth. So the PWHL as a whole will not likely be nearly as strong. I would expect both Mississauga and the Aeros to be favoured to challenge for the title again, but neither will be anywhere nearly as strong as this year...and it drops down proportionally from there. Bluewater is likely the next best, and the weakest few will yet again be cellar-dwellers.

The interesting question is what will happen with recruiting next season--both from the PWHL and overall. It appears that the 93 birth year may not be as strong as the 92s across all of North America. By the looks of the list, is certainly possible that D1 programs foresaw this and "overrecruited" this year to compensate, suggesting there might be an even bigger drop there than might otherwise be expected as a result.

How does the 93 group look in your part of the world?

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I am an Ohio State grad and I could not care less where the players are from. As the other guy said, if they are wearing an Ohio State hockey sweater, I am cheering for them. I think it's great that we had Tessa Bonhomme from Sudbury, ON, here for four seasons. We also had Emma Laaksonen from Finland and currently, Mintu Tuominen from Finland. It was a treat for me to watch women's hockey in the Olympics because there were four Buckeye women and all of them received medals. Lisa Chesson played for Team USA. As I watched the gold medal game, of course I rooted for my own country (US), but when it was over, I was thrilled that Tessa got a gold medal. Regardless of what countries these young ladies come from, they will always be Buckeyes to me, and one thing about us Buckeye fans, we are very loyal to these kids. I wouldn't trade the Canadian kids or the girls from Finland for anyone. If our coach recruits them and they pick Ohio State, that's fine with me. We're not up to the level that the UMD's and Minnesota's are at, but we are getting closer, and having four Olympians that went through (or are currently involved in) our program can't hurt. I've enjoyed reading through this thread (aside from NJC's posts) and especially enjoy the perspectives of our neighbors to the north.

Great post OSU. I know some kids on the present team and some that are on the way, and you're right, they are a comin...

[osualum86]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Great post OSU. I know some kids on the present team and some that are on the way, and you're right, they are a comin...

CanHockGuy, thank you for the response! After the excitement of the Olympics, Mrs 86 and I decided we are going to try and go to more OSU women's hockey games next season and we are also going to join their booster club (Hat Trick Club). I am amazed at how far the women's game has come in just the ten or eleven seasons that we have had women's hockey at Ohio State.

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Sorry for the delayed response.

I think in many ways, the PWHL as a whole was better this year than it has ever been--the top teams were better than ever, and the middle teams were much stronger through the ~top 10-12 teams, making for very highly competitive games from #3-12. Unfortunately, there are probably 4-6 too many teams in the league, and there has not been enough high end talent for the bottom 6 teams to be sufficiently competitive with the rest.

The Toronto Aeros and Mississauga Chiefs were a significant step above the other teams in the league. Both had probably the best teams from top to bottom than they have had in many years, if ever. Every game between the two was a nailbiter. Aeros won the Provincial and PWHL titles, as well as the Stoney Can-Am, rolling their lines evenly all year, in all situations. Aeros placed 11 in D1.
Mississauga won Bronze at Provincials, Silver in the PWHL, and won the Stoney Showcase plus a couple other tourneys and placed 4 in D1. These two teams would have matched well versus most D1 teams. Early in the season, the Aeros actually beat Brown and Harvard, and tied Cornell. Both teams return 6 players next year.

Bluewater, Stoney Creek and Ottawa are typically among the top 5-6 teams in the league every year, along with the first 2 teams noted, and this year was no exception. Bluewater won Silver at Provincials and 4th in PWHL, and placed 5 at D1. Stoney Creek won Bronze in the PWHL and placed 7 at D1. Ottawa placed 6 at D1. The biggest difference between these teams and the top 2 is depth, and these 3 each relied much more heavily on their top line players with disproportionate ice time for each to produce. These teams, plus Cambridge and Whitby, had great games versus top US teams including Little Caesars, Chicago Mission, SSM, NAHA, LA Selects in the Can-Am Series' .

The biggest difference this year versus some previous years was that games versus the #6-12 teams weren't "gimmes" this year against the top 5--the usual drop off around that point didn't really exist as much as in the past. Windsor, Cambridge, Kitchener, Whitby, Aurora, London...and even Etobicoke and Brampton at times... gave most of the top end teams many good games.

Durham, which had been a perennial top 5 contender in the first 5 years of the league, dropped to the cellar due to large scale graduations last year, and resulting defections of their few remaining players elsewhere. They are now in a rebuilding phase. Oakville, Hamilton, Burlington, and Markham and Etobicoke have had consistent difficulty competing over the past few years and this year was no exception. Many wish these teams would be folded or merged, as there are just too many teams in the Greater Toronto Area too close together. Unfortunately, the PWHL executive lacks the balls to make that happen. The bottom end teams would actually have difficulty beating the top Midget AA teams (Aeros, Stoney Creek, Thunder Bay, Willowdale, Brampton etc) consistently.

Many, including myself, are questioning what the impact will be in the PWHL next season. The 89-92 age groups were all strong talentwise, with the 92s the best of the bunch in depth. So the PWHL as a whole will not likely be nearly as strong. I would expect both Mississauga and the Aeros to be favoured to challenge for the title again, but neither will be anywhere nearly as strong as this year...and it drops down proportionally from there. Bluewater is likely the next best, and the weakest few will yet again be cellar-dwellers.

The interesting question is what will happen with recruiting next season--both from the PWHL and overall. It seems that the 93 birth year may not be as strong as the 92s across all of North America. By the looks of the list, is certainly possible that D1 programs "overrecruited" this year to compensate, and there will be an even bigger drop there than might otherwise be expected as a result.

How does the 93 group look in your part of the world?

I see it exactly as you do Trillium. After the 92's I believe the league will be weaker. How is it in the States though? I could see this coming a few years ago, so could a few of the coaches in D1 that I have spoken with. What's going to happen now? Why has it gotten weaker? Could it be a 1 or 2 year blip possibly? More? Could all others get tired of the Toronto and Missy dominance along with their apparent advantages?

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

CanHockGuy, thank you for the response! After the excitement of the Olympics, Mrs 86 and I decided we are going to try and go to more OSU women's hockey games next season and we are also going to join their booster club (Hat Trick Club). I am amazed at how far the women's game has come in just the ten or eleven seasons that we have had women's hockey at Ohio State.

Just what the team needs, more support. In fact, pretty well all over the league it's needed. Spread the word, and get out there and support this great brand of hockey people! Good job OSU!

[Trillium]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I see it exactly as you do Trillium. After the 92's I believe the league will be weaker. How is it in the States though? I could see this coming a few years ago, so could a few of the coaches in D1 that I have spoken with. What's going to happen now? Why has it gotten weaker? Could it be a 1 or 2 year blip possibly? More? Could all others get tired of the Toronto and Missy dominance along with their apparent advantages?

From what I have heard, the 93 group might actually be even weaker elsewhere than in the PWHL. It would be great of everyone from other areas would weigh in on this point with their thoughts.

I think the main reason it is weaker is simple demographics. The 90-92 birth years were the height of the echo boom, so the 93 birth year as a whole is smaller.

However, it would seem that hockey registration is also taking a nosedive. This is certainly so in Ontario. Registration numbers by age group in the OWHA suggest it will continue to get worse every year now. There has not been sufficient attention given to promotion of the game among 5-10 year olds in recent years, nor to development in the younger age groups, the lopsided game scores in international competition don't help in the least at this point.

The sport is simply too expensive for most middle income families, and there is also too little prime time ice available, which further drives up costs. The PWHL has also been making noise about 20-20-20 games, which will further drive up costs disproportionately, making other sports especially soccer more appealing.

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Americans-Canadians

From what I have heard, the 93 group might actually be even weaker elsewhere than in the PWHL. It would be great of everyone from other areas would weigh in on this point with their thoughts.

I think the main reason it is weaker is simple demographics. The 90-92 birth years were the height of the echo boom, so the 93 birth year as a whole is smaller.

However, it would seem that hockey registration is also taking a nosedive. This is certainly so in Ontario. Registration numbers by age group in the OWHA suggest it will continue to get worse every year now. There has not been sufficient attention given to promotion of the game among 5-10 year olds in recent years, nor to development in the younger age groups, the lopsided game scores in international competition don't help in the least at this point.



The sport is simply too expensive for most middle income families, and there is also too little prime time ice available, which further drives up costs. The PWHL has also been making noise about 20-20-20 games, which will further drive up costs disproportionately, making other sports especially soccer more appealing.

My friend Redneck say`s....

Canada's population growth can be attributed manily to our Open Door immigration policies.

Canada's 1st generation immigrants rarely take up the game of hockey.

Canada's 2nd generation immigrants do take up the game however in disproportionately fewer numbers, due mainly to sports/cultural differences and cost.

Canada: outfit a growing soccer player and pay yearly fee's - $1000.00

Canada: outfit a growing hockey player and pay yearly fee's - Pricle$$.

Canadian's can now play soccer indoors in the winter as well as outdoors in the summer.

Canada's fastest growing sport is soccer.


Canada.... may well be losing it`s hockey edge. Just sayin...

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

From what I have heard, the 93 group might actually be even weaker elsewhere than in the PWHL. It would be great of everyone from other areas would weigh in on this point with their thoughts.

I think the main reason it is weaker is simple demographics. The 90-92 birth years were the height of the echo boom, so the 93 birth year as a whole is smaller.

However, it would seem that hockey registration is also taking a nosedive. This is certainly so in Ontario. Registration numbers by age group in the OWHA suggest it will continue to get worse every year now. There has not been sufficient attention given to promotion of the game among 5-10 year olds in recent years, nor to development in the younger age groups, the lopsided game scores in international competition don't help in the least at this point.

The sport is simply too expensive for most middle income families, and there is also too little prime time ice available, which further drives up costs. The PWHL has also been making noise about 20-20-20 games, which will further drive up costs disproportionately, making other sports especially soccer more appealing.

Wow. I'm feeling more and more appreciative of my kid's situation every second. We have to figure out some way to keep the quality along with the quantity. I have a few ideas but let's see if there are others that can add some input to this problem. ......Lopsided scores... don't get me going again.....I think we're clear on that one finally.

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

My friend Redneck say`s....

Canada's population growth can be attributed manily to our Open Door immigration policies.

Canada's 1st generation immigrants rarely take up the game of hockey.

Canada's 2nd generation immigrants do take up the game however in disproportionately fewer numbers, due mainly to sports/cultural differences and cost.

Canada: outfit a growing soccer player and pay yearly fee's - $1000.00

Canada: outfit a growing hockey player and pay yearly fee's - Pricle$$.

Canadian's can now play soccer indoors in the winter as well as outdoors in the summer.

Canada's fastest growing sport is soccer.


Canada.... may well be losing it`s hockey edge. Just sayin...

I here ya 5-4. Rattle that brain of yours and let's figure something out to save it.

[bbtt]

Re: Americans-Canadians

The people who would complain about any Canadian receiving a scholarship or having the opportunity to attend a DI school are the same people who would complain about SSM, NAHA or NSA competing in the USA Hockey Nationals. The problem with the trophy generation is that instead of looking at those programs and striving to be like them or more competitive against them "the parents" want to eliminate them all together. I'm not sure what the % is of Canadians in DI but I guess that (in some people's minds) the thinking is if the Canadians aren't allowed to play in DI that would better for my daughter.
Can you even imagine the impact on the women's game if Canadians weren't allowed to compete. Oh yes that would be called high school hockey.

The comments in this thread are so extreme, it is comical. But since I have already been told I live in a cave, I will attempt to respond. Nobody is trying to eliminate SSM, NAHA or NSA (as if we could). But they should be playing in a division with other prep schools. It is implausible and unrealistic to suggest that all the other club teams should convert to the prep school format in order to compete.

But rest assured, it has nothing to do with winning a trophy. Actually, it is more the other way around. I would suggest that it is the need for a trophy that drives teams like SSM (and NAHA) to want to compete at Nationals.

Regarding the Canadian comments, I have never read a single thread that said there should be no Canadians playing in the US for D1 schools. (Again, the extremisn is laughable.) The only issue that I have seen is regarding the number of players.

While UCONN doesn't know the % of Canadians, Trillium supplied the number of approx 40%. For this number to make sense, it would mean that 40% of all Freshmen at these colleges were also Canadian. Since this isn't true, it doesn't seem irrational that posters may question the validity of this practice.

As a matter of fact, there are several teams that are greater than 75% Canadian. In my opinion, this seems excessive for a school located in the U.S.