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hockeyfan8811
04-15-2010, 05:30 PM
Has anyone ever heard of a DI Women's Hockey player not getting a transfer release for the next year?

There are many high profile players who seem to transfer each year without any problems.

brookyone
04-16-2010, 06:38 AM
Has anyone ever heard of a DI Women's Hockey player not getting a transfer release for the next year?

There are many high profile players who seem to transfer each year without any problems.
I heard of such a case a few years back...regarding a particular programs "star" player. Of course I have no way of knowing whether the player had actually requested her release.

hockeyfan8811
04-16-2010, 06:54 PM
Word has it that a freshman from UVM requested a release and has been denied. There have been previous releases granted from that school (and MANY others). Any suggestions or opinions?

scrambledlegs
04-16-2010, 08:45 PM
Word has it that a freshman from UVM requested a release and has been denied. There have been previous releases granted from that school (and MANY others). Any suggestions or opinions?

My guess is that there is more to the story than you are hearing. As you stated, there are several transfers every year, including high profile, franchise players.

I think most coaches, while not wanting the transfers to occur, realize that it could be more detrimental to keep a player that doesn't want to be there.

CanHockGuy
04-16-2010, 09:05 PM
If a player wants to go, then it's unfortunately their choice in most cases. Why? Because they will make a mess of the organization if they don't let them go.

hockeyfan8811
04-16-2010, 09:44 PM
There is not more to the story. The player appealed and stated that she wanted to leave for personal reasons (not team reasons) and was denied. In this case it seems that the coaches don't care about the well being of their players, they just don't want to loose this player. For a kid who has played hockey for her WHOLE life, she is now stuck for the next year, and has been denied access to rink and workout privileges for the rest of this year!

Ralph Kramden
04-17-2010, 08:11 AM
There is not more to the story. The player appealed and stated that she wanted to leave for personal reasons (not team reasons) and was denied. In this case it seems that the coaches don't care about the well being of their players, they just don't want to loose this player. For a kid who has played hockey for her WHOLE life, she is now stuck for the next year, and has been denied access to rink and workout privileges for the rest of this year!

What amazes me is that the NCAA, and schools, allow coaches to pick up and move on whenever it suits them, regardless of contract obligations. Certainly not in hockey but look at some of the incidences of football and basketball coaches jumping ship for the lure of the green, leaving players that they recruited in the lurch. It's totally out of whack.......Charlie Weis flies Notre Dame football into the ditch and leaves with millions of $$$ as they honor his contract years left. I understand that you need some sort of order and can't have players playing musical chairs every year but no one can argue that the athletes don't get the short end of the stick regarding movement.

hockeyfan8811
04-17-2010, 11:36 AM
All of the NCAA rules and regulations, supposedly to protect players, really only leave players in this situation with few options. A coach can be vindictive and childish, yet an 18 year old who takes the high road is left with no support to pursue available options. Without a release, she cannot even contact coaches or certain support people at other universities. It seems that there should be more help and protection for the student-athlete, not the coach!

WIrinkrat
04-17-2010, 11:53 AM
All of the NCAA rules and regulations, supposedly to protect players, really only leave players in this situation with few options. A coach can be vindictive and childish, yet an 18 year old who takes the high road is left with no support to pursue available options. Without a release, she cannot even contact coaches or certain support people at other universities. It seems that there should be more help and protection for the student-athlete, not the coach!


The appeals process is generally handled by members of the University community outside of athletics and the hockey program. Not to say there isn't an athletics representative there, as I'm sure there is. I'd imagine the coaches also get to submit their rationale in writing.

This is another layer that is in place to help protect student athletes who feel they are in the right when they are denied the opportunity to transfer. I'm not saying that this layer worked or didn't work in this situation because there is no way to know the true story...but ultimately the coach does not have the final say.

OnMAA
04-17-2010, 12:25 PM
All of the NCAA rules and regulations, supposedly to protect players, really only leave players in this situation with few options. A coach can be vindictive and childish, yet an 18 year old who takes the high road is left with no support to pursue available options. Without a release, she cannot even contact coaches or certain support people at other universities. It seems that there should be more help and protection for the student-athlete, not the coach!

I'm not sure where you are going with this, but in general, when a player accepts a scholarship, it is like signing a 4 year contract, that does come with some stipulations and regulations.

Similarly a coach is under contract when they sign on with a school, but unless you are the AD or the coach, you have generally no knowledge about the length , terms and conditions of the contract.

In any situation were someone wants to change the terms and conditions of said contract, there are rules and regulations in place to govern this, some are school rules, some are NCAA rules.

Coaches move around, mostly assistants. Many assistants probably only have 1 year contracts (so to speak), so you'd expect those movements as part of career upgrades etc.

In general player movement should be limited. Up here in the CIS in Canada if you want to move to another school, you sit a year. In US womens hockey that rules appears to only apply to moves within the WCHA.

If the player being discussed here had a change of heart, there were probably procedures in place to initiate this. Unless you are the player, coach, parent or AD, you have no way of knowing the complete story, so speculating on here about an individual case is IMHO not the right thing do.

At any rate, I know of at least one other player at another D1 school, that wanted out, but she did not get permission from her school to talk to the other schools. She would have to abide by that contract, even if she does not like it. A great learning lesson about real life.

Just my 3 cents...

hockeyfan8811
04-17-2010, 01:54 PM
I am not the player, parent, or coach but I do know the specifics of this case.

Really, I was just wondering if anyone had suggestions or knew of other similar cases. Just looking out for the best interests of the student-athlete, as I was under the impression that women's hockey players had the option of transferring almost all of the time.

Because I have only been following college hockey for a few years, I only really heard of cases where the girls were released as they are not really generating income for the school (unlike college basketball).

Bauer86
04-17-2010, 02:06 PM
But since women's hockey does indeed have the one time transfer rule, why aren't the players allowed to use this in all cases? If the player you are referring to is indeed not a franchise player and she wants to leave, only for personal reasons, one would think there would be no restrictions...whats happening up there????

chinook
04-17-2010, 02:14 PM
Those looking at going to UVM beware! If I recall it's not the first time that players have been treated unsatisfactorily by this coach and perhaps it won't be the last.

brookyone
04-17-2010, 04:53 PM
In general player movement should be limited. Up here in the CIS in Canada if you want to move to another school, you sit a year. In US womens hockey that rules appears to only apply to moves within the WCHA.
This is an inequity in NCAA women's hockey that should not exist...and should be changed IMO. I definitely think any transfer policy should be universal among all division I conferences. Whether you believe there should be a one season sit out "penalty" or you believe there should not be any sit out penalty...I think it should be universal for all of D-I.

I used to be in disagreement with the WCHA policy...based on the reality for the women...they have their four year eligibility...and then their hockey careers are over, for the vast majority of players. So I just didn't like the idea of taking a year away from them. You can't have...or create a situation where there's transferring run wild, unchecked and possibly abused, but I'm not at all sure that would occur, evidenced by the frequency of transfers seen now under the current rules. I suspect you'd see more transferring in the WCHA without the penalty...but probably not a lot more. I could be wrong, and without the penalty it's very possible you'd see a gradual increase in transfers within the conference over time. I'm just a little less sure it's a bad policy at this point.

The coaches I'm familiar with in the WCHA are unlikely to deny a request from all I've seen. It's not a good idea...or anything they want...to have a player who doesn't want to be there on their roster.

OnMAA
04-17-2010, 09:49 PM
But since women's hockey does indeed have the one time transfer rule, why aren't the players allowed to use this in all cases? If the player you are referring to is indeed not a franchise player and she wants to leave, only for personal reasons, one would think there would be no restrictions...whats happening up there????

Most cases that are denied you would never hear about on this forum. My issue is with highlighting individual cases on this board, and to delve into matters that should be personal/private discussions. This is not good for the player in question, nor for the program in question.

Trillium
04-17-2010, 10:20 PM
Most cases that are denied you would never hear about on this forum. My issue is with highlighting individual cases on this board, and to delve into matters that should be personal/private discussions. This is not good for the player in question, nor for the program in question.

While the identity and privacy of the individual and their reasons should obviously be protected, I think it is entirely fair to warn those who might be considering this university to do their due diligence about its practises.

OnMAA
04-18-2010, 12:04 AM
While the identity and privacy of the individual and their reasons should obviously be protected, I think it is entirely fair to warn those who might be considering this university to do their due diligence about its practices.

We agree to disagree on this subject then. I could easily name at least two recent cases that would not look favorably on the coaches/program in some peoples eyes. However for every story there is another side to it you may not know about. I just don't like ratting on coaches/players etc from the inside, whether it be parents, players or other relatives. I made that abundantly clear in a few other threads over this past year.

Having said that, it does not prevent potential recruits from doing their homework, by talking to others familiar with the program they are interested in. As a matter of fact, recommend it. I mean coaches check the players out, so it is fair for the players to check the coach out.

Trillium
04-18-2010, 01:00 AM
We agree to disagree on this subject then. I could easily name at least two recent cases that would not look favorably on the coaches/program in some peoples eyes.

Yup. I certainly can think of a couple of situations too off the top of my head that would actually be a whole lot worse than this.



However for every story there is another side to it you may not know about. I just don't like ratting on coaches/players etc from the inside, whether it be parents, players or other relatives. I made that abundantly clear in a few other threads over this past year.

.

Fair enough. Personally I think it is a matter of degree.

I certainly agree with you that badmouthing and extensive disparaging remarks about a program/coach as in various previous threads is quite inappropriate, especially from within.

In this case, a question mark and potential red flag was merely raised, in which a girl was negatively affected, without real negativity in my opinion, or gory details.

Sometimes it can be difficult to reconcile the wish to at least caution people about the questionable tactics that may be associated with certain programs or individuals, with the realization that there may also be information you are not privy to, as well as a desire to stay on the high road.

RStarr
04-18-2010, 01:41 AM
Similarly a coach is under contract when they sign on with a school, but unless you are the AD or the coach, you have generally no knowledge about the length , terms and conditions of the contract.
Tho coach has the right to leave at any time. It may come with repercussions, such as an early termination of contract fee, however, they are permitted to leave. Players don't have it so gravy.

In any situation were someone wants to change the terms and conditions of said contract, there are rules and regulations in place to govern this, some are school rules, some are NCAA rules
Playing for the NCAA is like working for the federal government....the rules only apply if they are at benefit of the program and/or franchise. who care about the people (errr, players).

At any rate, I know of at least one other player at another D1 school, that wanted out, but she did not get permission from her school to talk to the other schools. She would have to abide by that contract, even if she does not like it. A great learning lesson about real life.
Life lessons can be learned in far better and more productive ways than by forcing a player to stay at a program for 4 years based of a decision made at 18 years old.

Most cases that are denied you would never hear about on this forum. My issue is with highlighting individual cases on this board, and to delve into matters that should be personal/private discussions. This is not good for the player in question, nor for the program in question.
I find you to be extremely hypocritical. You urge the players to do their homework, research schools, etc. However, you do you best to continually moderate and/or stifle conversation that you think puts players and or programs in a negative light. Hearsay or not, this is a public forum where people are entilted to discuss things of this nature. I applaud posters for bringing to light some potential problems with schools that little Janey may not have picked up on otherwise. Discussions like this, even though they highlight negative aspects of programs , may save people from making the mistake that you yourself proclaim should be entirely avoidable if enough research is done beforehand.

If anything, girls now seriously looking to matriculate to Vermont just may ask the coach on policies regarding transfers, etc. Seems like a good thing to me. Hopefully the coach will be adult enough to be honest about such things, but I wouldn't be surprised if the truth was often concealed, again, in an effort to portray the school only in the best of light. And we call the coaches adults and the players children. HA! :rolleyes:

RStarr
04-18-2010, 01:50 AM
I certainly agree with you that badmouthing and extensive disparaging remarks about a program/coach as in various previous threads is quite inappropriate, especially from within.
It didn't take a few disgruntled posters and a few inflammatory threads regarding Brown to show just what sort of shape that program currently is in. That was already well known by most who follow the sport.

Furthermore, a thread highlighting just how derailed the Brown program is (and no, I really don't want to hear about their star recruit as that changes nothing in regards to the program) is far more appropriate in this forum than any thread mocking the attire of a coach.