DI Transfers

[Trillium]

Re: DI Transfers

Most cases that are denied you would never hear about on this forum. My issue is with highlighting individual cases on this board, and to delve into matters that should be personal/private discussions. This is not good for the player in question, nor for the program in question.

While the identity and privacy of the individual and their reasons should obviously be protected, I think it is entirely fair to warn those who might be considering this university to do their due diligence about its practises.

[OnMAA]

Re: DI Transfers

While the identity and privacy of the individual and their reasons should obviously be protected, I think it is entirely fair to warn those who might be considering this university to do their due diligence about its practices.

We agree to disagree on this subject then. I could easily name at least two recent cases that would not look favorably on the coaches/program in some peoples eyes. However for every story there is another side to it you may not know about. I just don't like ratting on coaches/players etc from the inside, whether it be parents, players or other relatives. I made that abundantly clear in a few other threads over this past year.

Having said that, it does not prevent potential recruits from doing their homework, by talking to others familiar with the program they are interested in. As a matter of fact, recommend it. I mean coaches check the players out, so it is fair for the players to check the coach out.

[Trillium]

Re: DI Transfers

We agree to disagree on this subject then. I could easily name at least two recent cases that would not look favorably on the coaches/program in some peoples eyes.

Yup. I certainly can think of a couple of situations too off the top of my head that would actually be a whole lot worse than this.

However for every story there is another side to it you may not know about. I just don't like ratting on coaches/players etc from the inside, whether it be parents, players or other relatives. I made that abundantly clear in a few other threads over this past year.

.

Fair enough. Personally I think it is a matter of degree.

I certainly agree with you that badmouthing and extensive disparaging remarks about a program/coach as in various previous threads is quite inappropriate, especially from within.

In this case, a question mark and potential red flag was merely raised, in which a girl was negatively affected, without real negativity in my opinion, or gory details.

Sometimes it can be difficult to reconcile the wish to at least caution people about the questionable tactics that may be associated with certain programs or individuals, with the realization that there may also be information you are not privy to, as well as a desire to stay on the high road.

[RStarr]

Re: DI Transfers

Similarly a coach is under contract when they sign on with a school, but unless you are the AD or the coach, you have generally no knowledge about the length , terms and conditions of the contract.

Tho coach has the right to leave at any time. It may come with repercussions, such as an early termination of contract fee, however, they are permitted to leave. Players don't have it so gravy.

In any situation were someone wants to change the terms and conditions of said contract, there are rules and regulations in place to govern this, some are school rules, some are NCAA rules

Playing for the NCAA is like working for the federal government....the rules only apply if they are at benefit of the program and/or franchise. who care about the people (errr, players).

At any rate, I know of at least one other player at another D1 school, that wanted out, but she did not get permission from her school to talk to the other schools. She would have to abide by that contract, even if she does not like it. A great learning lesson about real life.

Life lessons can be learned in far better and more productive ways than by forcing a player to stay at a program for 4 years based of a decision made at 18 years old.

Most cases that are denied you would never hear about on this forum. My issue is with highlighting individual cases on this board, and to delve into matters that should be personal/private discussions. This is not good for the player in question, nor for the program in question.

I find you to be extremely hypocritical. You urge the players to do their homework, research schools, etc. However, you do you best to continually moderate and/or stifle conversation that you think puts players and or programs in a negative light. Hearsay or not, this is a public forum where people are entilted to discuss things of this nature. I applaud posters for bringing to light some potential problems with schools that little Janey may not have picked up on otherwise. Discussions like this, even though they highlight negative aspects of programs , may save people from making the mistake that you yourself proclaim should be entirely avoidable if enough research is done beforehand.

If anything, girls now seriously looking to matriculate to Vermont just may ask the coach on policies regarding transfers, etc. Seems like a good thing to me. Hopefully the coach will be adult enough to be honest about such things, but I wouldn't be surprised if the truth was often concealed, again, in an effort to portray the school only in the best of light. And we call the coaches adults and the players children. HA!

[RStarr]

Re: DI Transfers

I certainly agree with you that badmouthing and extensive disparaging remarks about a program/coach as in various previous threads is quite inappropriate, especially from within.

It didn't take a few disgruntled posters and a few inflammatory threads regarding Brown to show just what sort of shape that program currently is in. That was already well known by most who follow the sport.

Furthermore, a thread highlighting just how derailed the Brown program is (and no, I really don't want to hear about their star recruit as that changes nothing in regards to the program) is far more appropriate in this forum than any thread mocking the attire of a coach.

[RStarr]

Re: DI Transfers

and while we're at it, would somebody please fire Katie King and Courtney Kennedy?!

[ARM]

Re: DI Transfers

I used to be in disagreement with the WCHA policy...based on the reality for the women...they have their four year eligibility...and then their hockey careers are over, for the vast majority of players. So I just didn't like the idea of taking a year away from them.

They don't have a year taken away from them; their hockey career is just put on hold in terms of competing in games. They are still students, and they still take part in practice/conditioning, but they aren't allowed to dress for games in the first season. The student athlete still has five years to complete their 4 years of competition, assuming that they haven't already used their redshirt season.

Life lessons can be learned in far better and more productive ways than by forcing a player to stay at a program for 4 years based of a decision made at 18 years old.

They aren't forced to stay there for 4 years; they can still transfer even w/o a release, but they cannot play for their new team during the first year if they are not granted one.

[OnMAA]

Re: DI Transfers

Debating RStarr...Always a challenge
....You do bring up some great points...A couple of rebuttals:

Tho coach has the right to leave at any time. It may come with repercussions, such as an early termination of contract fee, however, they are permitted to leave. Players don't have it so gravy.

Just like players they do have to follow a process, as in asking for permission for example. Players can and do transfer, they just have to go about it the right way. Discussing about not being able to on this forum via others is lame.

Playing for the NCAA is like working for the federal government....the rules only apply if they are at benefit of the program and/or franchise. who care about the people (errr, players).

That is a one sided view. Most coaches do have the best interest of the players and program at heart. However, 18-20 years olds are more likely to change their mind on emotion than coaches etc. That is what often leads to issues.

Life lessons can be learned in far better and more productive ways than by forcing a player to stay at a program for 4 years based of a decision made at 18 years old.

The life lessons learned while playing varsity are many. One of them is on the consequences you may face if you cannot adjust to the environment you play or work in and the rules that go with it. This includes knowing how to have the right relationship with your coach/boss, and how AND WHEN to communicate about issues of concern to your superiors. Trust me, most learn more during time of adversity than during time of Bliss.

I find you to be extremely hypocritical. You urge the players to do their homework, research schools, etc. However, you do you best to continually moderate and/or stifle conversation that you think puts players and or programs in a negative light.

Yes I do urge players to do their homework. Does not mean every little internal problem needs to be aired on this public forum to help them with this. Like with Trillium, we agree to disagree on this one. It's all good, you are entitled to your opinion.

[Bauer86]

Re: DI Transfers

Even if a player does extensive research on a school, they are most likely not going to talk to people from both sides of the spectrum. In most cases they talk to alumni of the university, current players, and coaches. Generally, people are going to refrain from badmouthing an institution where the player is interested in attending, even if it would be in her benefit. There are reasons schools have multiple players leave every few years, and by keeping these reasons under wraps the prospective players are not given all of the information on these schools.

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: DI Transfers

They don't have a year taken away from them; their hockey career is just put on hold in terms of competing in games. They are still students, and they still take part in practice/conditioning, but they aren't allowed to dress for games in the first season. The student athlete still has five years to complete their 4 years of competition, assuming that they haven't already used their redshirt season.

They aren't forced to stay there for 4 years; they can still transfer even w/o a release, but they cannot play for their new team during the first year if they are not granted one.

I was wondering when someone was going to say this...

I believe there is one exception where a student athlete can play immediately upon arrival on the other campus. It occurs when an undergraduate completes their degree and changes schools to pursue graduate work that does not exist at the first institution. This is usually the 4th year of playing eligibility and the 5th year out of HS.

I don't think this is the case with our situation in Vermont, though.

The reality is though that many players do not complete their undergraduate degree in 4 years because of the demands of the sport. So the player in question can use this year off to get ahead academically ensuring that she will finish her degree and her hockey career at the same time.

[RStarr]

Re: DI Transfers

The reality is though that many players do not complete their undergraduate degree in 4 years because of the demands of the sport. So the player in question can use this year off to get ahead academically ensuring that she will finish her degree and her hockey career at the same time.

I agree with this...

[scrambledlegs]

Re: DI Transfers

Even if a player does extensive research on a school, they are most likely not going to talk to people from both sides of the spectrum. In most cases they talk to alumni of the university, current players, and coaches. Generally, people are going to refrain from badmouthing an institution where the player is interested in attending, even if it would be in her benefit. There are reasons schools have multiple players leave every few years, and by keeping these reasons under wraps the prospective players are not given all of the information on these schools.

One of the problems is that people tend to ask "positive confirmation" questions. For example, "Is the coach hardworking?". The answer to that question is probably yes, however it doesn't get to some of the other character flaws that the coach may also have, such as "Does the coach yell at the players?"

Since every player is different and looks for different things in a coach, then the person being asked may only answer the question that is posed to them. In this case, the alumni may think the player only cares about whether the coach is hardworking.

However, if it really bothers the player to be yelled at, then those are the questions that should be asked. They are the tougher questions to ask but
I believe that you would usually get honest answers.

[OnMAA]

Re: DI Transfers

One of the problems is that people tend to ask "positive confirmation" questions. For example, "Is the coach hardworking?". The answer to that question is probably yes, however it doesn't get to some of the other character flaws that the coach may also have, such as "Does the coach yell at the players?"

Since every player is different and looks for different things in a coach, then the person being asked may only answer the question that is posed to them. In this case, the alumni may think the player only cares about whether the coach is hardworking.

However, if it really bothers the player to be yelled at, then those are the questions that should be asked. They are the tougher questions to ask but
I believe that you would usually get honest answers.

You actually get a lot of good information about programs and their ins and outs to watch for from established long time U19/IAA club coaches and from recruiters of competing schools. You'd be amazed the things you learn about each program. This is not always about people putting other programs down, but just about the pro and cons, the characteristics of a coach and how it would fit to your own situation.

In the end you pick a list of schools for their academics first and then you pick the varisty program that fits you best after. The tendencies and coaching style of a coach should be part of that evaluation.