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redhawkman10
08-09-2010, 11:46 AM
So question/topic for debate.

With Football season starting and teams going to "camp" a month before the season starts and thinking that Basketball has midnight madness in October and season doesnt start really until November and baseball gets a month of fall baseball and a can start practice in january. Why do those sports get multiple weeks with their teams and coaching staff to practice and hockey gets a week before their exibition game and only 2 weeks before the regular season starts to have full participation.

For me teams should be allowed to get together in mid september. After labor day and allow them plenty of time, like other sports get, to prepare for the regular season.

MUhawks628
08-09-2010, 01:55 PM
So question/topic for debate.

With Football season starting and teams going to "camp" a month before the season starts and thinking that Basketball has midnight madness in October and season doesnt start really until November and baseball gets a month of fall baseball and a can start practice in january. Why do those sports get multiple weeks with their teams and coaching staff to practice and hockey gets a week before their exibition game and only 2 weeks before the regular season starts to have full participation.

For me teams should be allowed to get together in mid september. After labor day and allow them plenty of time, like other sports get, to prepare for the regular season.

Isn't the NCAA already on record as saying they think the hockey season is too long to and detrimental to student-athletes' academic performace (:rolleyes: ), sure that has something to do with it.

redeagle
08-09-2010, 03:15 PM
Jay Williams featured on the Caps website. Thanks to Dan on MHT for the link. Dan never posts on here anymore (and never calls me). Of course I haven't called him either. ;)

http://capitals.nhl.com/

redeagle
08-09-2010, 03:31 PM
So question/topic for debate.

With Football season starting and teams going to "camp" a month before the season starts and thinking that Basketball has midnight madness in October and season doesnt start really until November and baseball gets a month of fall baseball and a can start practice in january. Why do those sports get multiple weeks with their teams and coaching staff to practice and hockey gets a week before their exibition game and only 2 weeks before the regular season starts to have full participation.

For me teams should be allowed to get together in mid september. After labor day and allow them plenty of time, like other sports get, to prepare for the regular season.

I know you mean full practices with coaches, rhm, but, as you know, teams do "get together" in mid September. But to answer your question, I think the nature of the game/scheduling/travel results in a very long season. For example, it would difficult to start games later and play more games per week given the nature of hockey and the travel distances for most teams. Given the NCAA time/contact constraints, the only alternative would be the same start date for full practice, but fewer games (in other words starting games in late October). That is something we do not want, especially when competing with major junior for players. So I guess I am willing to live with the current system and give up on my real desire - playing hockey 11 months with a one month golf break. :D

redhawkman10
08-09-2010, 04:55 PM
Isn't the NCAA already on record as saying they think the hockey season is too long to and detrimental to student-athletes' academic performace (:rolleyes: ), sure that has something to do with it.


I know you mean full practices with coaches, rhm, but, as you know, teams do "get together" in mid September. But to answer your question, I think the nature of the game/scheduling/travel results in a very long season. For example, it would difficult to start games later and play more games per week given the nature of hockey and the travel distances for most teams. Given the NCAA time/contact constraints, the only alternative would be the same start date for full practice, but fewer games (in other words starting games in late October). That is something we do not want, especially when competing with major junior for players. So I guess I am willing to live with the current system and give up on my real desire - playing hockey 11 months with a one month golf break. :D

Hockey takes players away from class far less than Basketball and baseball does even with both of those sports having shorter seasons.

Redeagle- thanks you knew what I meant. Players skate together through the summer, but I am talking about full team practices with coaches. It doesn't take anything away from academics and the teams are skating as it is. I just think they give all of these other sports an abundance of pre season time to be fully prepared. How is starting hockey practice after labor day any different than baseball having a month of fall ball, and starting their practices in january with games from mid-late February to middle of June. That is 6 months of practice/games and their travel schedule and game schedule is far more strenuous sp? than any hockey schedule.

I just don't see any reasoning how an extra two weeks of practices so teams can be fully prepared is such a bad thing...

mcfarljd
08-09-2010, 05:13 PM
I don't think the extra month of practice for the football team will do much for them, they're going to get smoked by Florida and the rest of the MAC.

redeagle
08-10-2010, 02:01 PM
Hockey takes players away from class far less than Basketball and baseball does even with both of those sports having shorter seasons.

Redeagle- thanks you knew what I meant. Players skate together through the summer, but I am talking about full team practices with coaches. It doesn't take anything away from academics and the teams are skating as it is. I just think they give all of these other sports an abundance of pre season time to be fully prepared. How is starting hockey practice after labor day any different than baseball having a month of fall ball, and starting their practices in january with games from mid-late February to middle of June. That is 6 months of practice/games and their travel schedule and game schedule is far more strenuous sp? than any hockey schedule.

I just don't see any reasoning how an extra two weeks of practices so teams can be fully prepared is such a bad thing...

I agree, it's not a practice thing affecting academics. It's about NCAA limits.

I've never understood the baseball thing, by the way. Are the coaches directly involved in Fall baseball? Don't forget, though, that a lot of the baseball season is after the semester is over (at least at Miami).

The problem with, for example, baseball and softball is that all the classes are missed in one semester (spring). Some of the the other sports (other than hockey) absolutely do miss more class time, that's true, but my understanding is the NCAA has set some standards about practice hours/contact and that sort of stuff. I *think*, given the NCAA, the only way to get more pre-season for hockey would be at the expense of games, that's my only point. I agree that more real practice in September would be a good thing and not at all detrimental to academics, but we're talking about the NCAA here so I don't expect them to change since these "limits" are relatively new.

By the way, the sports that have the most problem with missing classes at Miami are baseball, softball, tennis, and sometimes sychronized skating. Because the standard is misses in a semester, hockey and basketball are never a problem because they are spread over two semesters (unless you get to the Frozen Four, then there could be a problem, but we are now experienced in dealing with that ;) ). Miami limits the class misses an athlete can have for competitions during a semester. On rare occasions, an althlete will be left home if his or her schedule means he or she will be over the limit. The price of academic excellence. :D

redhawkman10
08-10-2010, 03:01 PM
I agree, it's not a practice thing affecting academics. It's about NCAA limits.

I've never understood the baseball thing, by the way. Are the coaches directly involved in Fall baseball? Don't forget, though, that a lot of the baseball season is after the semester is over (at least at Miami).

The problem with, for example, baseball and softball is that all the classes are missed in one semester (spring). Some of the the other sports (other than hockey) absolutely do miss more class time, that's true, but my understanding is the NCAA has set some standards about practice hours/contact and that sort of stuff. I *think*, given the NCAA, the only way to get more pre-season for hockey would be at the expense of games, that's my only point. I agree that more real practice in September would be a good thing and not at all detrimental to academics, but we're talking about the NCAA here so I don't expect them to change since these "limits" are relatively new.

By the way, the sports that have the most problem with missing classes at Miami are baseball, softball, tennis, and sometimes sychronized skating. Because the standard is misses in a semester, hockey and basketball are never a problem because they are spread over two semesters (unless you get to the Frozen Four, then there could be a problem, but we are now experienced in dealing with that ;) ). Miami limits the class misses an athlete can have for competitions during a semester. On rare occasions, an althlete will be left home if his or her schedule means he or she will be over the limit. The price of academic excellence. :D

Coaches are involved with fall baseball.

I get the "spread out over two semesters" arguement but I think its hogwash. I did the baseball season, you rarely are in class. We had academic advisors that traveled with us and held "class" on the road. I know it is an NCAA issue but that is my point. The NCAA sets these guidelines and they allow sports like football, baseball, and basketball far more pre season practice time than hockey. I understand, in footballs case, they are practicing before school starts and as for baseball yes they play into June and school is out but they are in season the whole semester and fall baseball isn't a case where you travel. However that is added contact for a whole month. It makes no sense to give hockey teams two weeks essentially to get fully prepared before playing games that count. If it doesn't hinder academics ( which it wouldnt ) why limit it so much? Their reasoning for their restrictions are laughable with what they allow other sports to do. Trust me I went through a collegiate baseball season at two different schools and it is far more strenuous sp? than any hockey season based on time commitments and academics.

More to it, I think it is worse in baseball and softball's case that it is all in one semester. How do you expect success when kids miss as much class as they do? Its a little different at Miami than it was in the south but I am looking at a more broad stance than just at Miami. Big conference baseball in the south or west is tough. We were in class 2 days in a week if we traveled on the weekend and 3 days if we were at home, but during the season never had a full week you were in the classroom.

redhawkman10
08-10-2010, 03:20 PM
Don't want to stray too far off topic, but just wanted to point out that Jay Williams has been pretty impressive at the Hilinka tournament. Won the first game stopping 18 of 20 shots and lost to russia in a shootout stopping 23 of 29 shots. He has been their starter which is extremely impressive with the talent on that team...More signs to another great job recruiting!

redeagle
08-10-2010, 04:27 PM
Coaches are involved with fall baseball.

I get the "spread out over two semesters" arguement but I think its hogwash. I did the baseball season, you rarely are in class. We had academic advisors that traveled with us and held "class" on the road. I know it is an NCAA issue but that is my point. The NCAA sets these guidelines and they allow sports like football, baseball, and basketball far more pre season practice time than hockey. I understand, in footballs case, they are practicing before school starts and as for baseball yes they play into June and school is out but they are in season the whole semester and fall baseball isn't a case where you travel. However that is added contact for a whole month. It makes no sense to give hockey teams two weeks essentially to get fully prepared before playing games that count. If it doesn't hinder academics ( which it wouldnt ) why limit it so much? Their reasoning for their restrictions are laughable with what they allow other sports to do. Trust me I went through a collegiate baseball season at two different schools and it is far more strenuous sp? than any hockey season based on time commitments and academics.

More to it, I think it is worse in baseball and softball's case that it is all in one semester. How do you expect success when kids miss as much class as they do? Its a little different at Miami than it was in the south but I am looking at a more broad stance than just at Miami. Big conference baseball in the south or west is tough. We were in class 2 days in a week if we traveled on the weekend and 3 days if we were at home, but during the season never had a full week you were in the classroom.

rhm, don't mix up academics/classes missed with NCAA contact days/hours. Miami has its own policy for the former, but must adhere to the NCAA for the latter.

Like I said, I don't get baseball, especially if coaches are involved in the fall. Also, the NCAA contact limits and academics, as I said above, are separate issues, at least to me. Miami is very conscientious about monitoring athletic travel and scheduling student-athlete classes to minimize time missed. At Miami, no matter what the sport, you can't miss more than a standard number of classes in a semester because of athletics. It's the same number of classes for all sports. Starting hockey practice a week or two earlier with coaches on the ice would not be a problem for that, as you point out. The NCAA contact limits are a difference issue. Since we really don't know the specifics, it might be interesting to find out what the "contact" days/hours allowed for all the sports, and then if there are differences, what the rationale for the differences is.

But, having said all that, the college hockey season is very, very long in that you are competing in games from early October through March and sometimes April. Is there any other college game season that long? Don't know, just askin'.

redhawk95
08-10-2010, 08:45 PM
But, having said all that, the college hockey season is very, very long in that you are competing in games from early October through March and sometimes April. Is there any other college game season that long? Don't know, just askin'.

Depends on how many days the University of Ohio State has between the Michigan football finale and their invariable flame out in a BCS game. :D

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/10722207

redhawkman10
08-11-2010, 09:34 AM
rhm, don't mix up academics/classes missed with NCAA contact days/hours. Miami has its own policy for the former, but must adhere to the NCAA for the latter.

Like I said, I don't get baseball, especially if coaches are involved in the fall. Also, the NCAA contact limits and academics, as I said above, are separate issues, at least to me. Miami is very conscientious about monitoring athletic travel and scheduling student-athlete classes to minimize time missed. At Miami, no matter what the sport, you can't miss more than a standard number of classes in a semester because of athletics. It's the same number of classes for all sports. Starting hockey practice a week or two earlier with coaches on the ice would not be a problem for that, as you point out. The NCAA contact limits are a difference issue. Since we really don't know the specifics, it might be interesting to find out what the "contact" days/hours allowed for all the sports, and then if there are differences, what the rationale for the differences is.

But, having said all that, the college hockey season is very, very long in that you are competing in games from early October through March and sometimes April. Is there any other college game season that long? Don't know, just askin'.

I guess I am not making my point very well. I am trying to seperate the academics and the NCAA contact limits. I just threw academics in their to try and make my point that it wouldn't affect it at all if that is their rationale.

But the point I am trying to make is that their Contact limits make no sense. The Hockey season is around 6 1/2 months long. Basketball is around 6 but get a full month before to practice before their season starts. Football is 4 and baseball is around 6 months. However baseball and softball have a full month of fall baseball and their travel schedule is ridiculous.

My arguement is Hockey plays games a couple weeks longer than some other sports if you make it to the national championship game but has the shortest "contact" of any other sport. And Hockey for the most part takes a month off in December where they don't play much. No other sport, besides football, does that. It just makes no sense to me to force programs to have such short full team practices before a season than any other sport.

redeagle
08-11-2010, 02:36 PM
I guess I am not making my point very well. I am trying to seperate the academics and the NCAA contact limits. I just threw academics in their to try and make my point that it wouldn't affect it at all if that is their rationale.

But the point I am trying to make is that their Contact limits make no sense. The Hockey season is around 6 1/2 months long. Basketball is around 6 but get a full month before to practice before their season starts. Football is 4 and baseball is around 6 months. However baseball and softball have a full month of fall baseball and their travel schedule is ridiculous.

My arguement is Hockey plays games a couple weeks longer than some other sports if you make it to the national championship game but has the shortest "contact" of any other sport. And Hockey for the most part takes a month off in December where they don't play much. No other sport, besides football, does that. It just makes no sense to me to force programs to have such short full team practices before a season than any other sport.

I hear you and agree that not all the NCAA stuff makes sense. However, I absolutely believe that there should be contact limits (the potential for abuse is too high othewise). I'll see if I can get some info on contact rules (although it is starting to get busy around here :) ).

redhawkman10
08-11-2010, 07:34 PM
I hear you and agree that not all the NCAA stuff makes sense. However, I absolutely believe that there should be contact limits (the potential for abuse is too high othewise). I'll see if I can get some info on contact rules (although it is starting to get busy around here :) ).

See this is why I love having you around redeagle, discussions are so much fun! :D

I agree there should be contact limits, I just don't understand why they give more time in nearly every other sport other than hockey. An additional two weeks of practice time in september won't affect anything.

Slap Shot
08-11-2010, 07:53 PM
Some gal just delivered some books to the house my wife ordered a few weeks back. Turns out she's from OH from the town where (dum dums?) are made and is a huge Miami hockey fan, even knew your results the past few years. Kinda cute too. ;)

redeagle
08-12-2010, 02:01 PM
Some gal just delivered some books to the house my wife ordered a few weeks back. Turns out she's from OH from the town where (dum dums?) are made and is a huge Miami hockey fan, even knew your results the past few years. Kinda cute too. ;)

You've stumbled on our recruiting secret. :D

redeagle
08-12-2010, 02:03 PM
See this is why I love having you around redeagle, discussions are so much fun! :D

I agree there should be contact limits, I just don't understand why they give more time in nearly every other sport other than hockey. An additional two weeks of practice time in september won't affect anything.

Since you didn't call me ignorant, I'm chalking this up as a win. :D

redhawkman10
08-12-2010, 05:26 PM
You've stumbled on our recruiting secret. :D


Since you didn't call me ignorant, I'm chalking this up as a win. :D


Boy you are on target today lol....It must be time for school to start! :D

MUhawks628
08-12-2010, 05:39 PM
You've stumbled on our recruiting secret. :D

I thought Playboy outed us a few years back. Such a burden having one of the most attractive female student bodies in the country ;)

redeagle
08-13-2010, 02:11 PM
I thought Playboy outed us a few years back. Such a burden having one of the most attractive female student bodies in the country ;)

Yea, I guess it is not much of a secret, but for professional reasons, I need to get away from this topic. :o