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zoofer
03-29-2010, 05:07 PM
After having read some of the threads, mainly about UNH, post regional play, I'm curious what most of you "hockey fans" feel about the following...it seems that there are some folks that feel that only by winning a NC does your hockey program attain any value....is this true? Do Sioux fans, or Wolverine, Terrier, Badger, Spartan, Pioneer, Black Bear, Red Hawk or Gopher fans react the same way that some of the UNH posters do? Should all coachs be as depised as Shannon Miller is of UMD, yet since she has won 5 NC's is she of more value than a respected decent coach? Has every program got to build a $5 million RECRUITING center as Rutgers has to attract the creme de la creme?
It's the old question of what price glory........as an old UNH'er, I was at Snively when the UVM game had crowds lined up past the NE center at 3 in the afternoon for a 7 o'clock game.....has the programs success spoiled so many people that only a NC will suffice to get today's fans to the games?
Why such vitriol from naysayers like Nick P., NCAA watcher, UNH1982, bilbb, et al? Is it not enough to have only Michigan with a longer appearance rate than UNH? If you guys KNOW the hockey community, you're aware of UNH's standing in the community......that's not enough?
In 2004, when Michigan, Cornell, and Minnesota shared the FF with us, which school's endowment was the biggast joke there? How many other school's have 1% of Alum giving back? As Got 6 noticed, SLU, RIT, and almost every other school we play has better financial backing than UNH.....
Kudo's to Got 6, chickod, irishfan, wild E, CHC and other posters for being amazed at what some saw this past weekend......what UNH did to Cornell, was done right back at them by RIT....does not RIT deserve credit for being the better team that night? Was it UNH that played badly or RIT that in 94 seconds took the game from them? What should Umile do? Be like Parker and have beet red faces every game? It didn't work for Bill Cleary and he was the master of such action......
Since being a fan, coming from the latin fanatic, (not) means that emotions are involved, I'll accept that I'm taking all the criticism poorly, but I'd just like to know how other school fans react when they have the resume that UNH has, yet it never seems to be enough.....thanks

STATEdude3
03-29-2010, 05:15 PM
I used to think it was the trophy and only the trophy that mattered. I think there are a lot of fans and even programs that see it that way. But in 2007 when Michigan State won the title I felt my attitude on that change. I was 2 years old when MSU won the 1986 championship so I grew up hearing about all the Ron Mason teams that failed to win championships with the best talent in the nation.

Then in 2007 I watched an average group of players play a high level of hockey and win when they absolutely had to and overcome tremendous adversity to win it all. I'll never forget captain Chris Lawrence forgetting to tape his stick before the championship game because he was so nervous, or that after the game he stayed dressed for over an hour because he knew it would be his last time wearing a Spartan jersey.

I believe we love College Hockey because of the journey. Those that follow the NHL closely or other professional leagues, they care about the trophy. College players are not the most skilled in the world, but they always seem to play with heart beyond their means. It's the stories of the players that play because they love the game that endears us to college hockey.

That's just my 2 cents.

J.D.
03-29-2010, 05:17 PM
When your program has gotten as close as UNH has without winning one, yes, the ultimate goal is to win one. Will they win one? I don't know, but if I was a fan, I wouldn't be fully satisfied until they did. They are in the tournament every year and we've seen some incredible runs to title games by lower seeds (MSU, Notre Dame, Miami come to mind). At the very least, UNH fans deserve to see the team in March/April that they've seen all season long--too many times that hasn't been the case.

RedFreak
03-29-2010, 05:20 PM
For me, it's the journey. I place great value on the regular season title (which Wisconsin can't seem to win), but I know I'm in the minority. I've also been at this a long time. My opinion was probably different when I was younger.

C-H-C
03-29-2010, 05:25 PM
Thanks zoofer for starting a refreshingly thoughtful thread.

ajoyce02
03-29-2010, 05:29 PM
For fans, I think it's the journey. But at some point it becomes about the titles, because in the end that is what people remember.

RITProf
03-29-2010, 05:30 PM
RIT is sure enjoying the journey right now. I saw more RIT orange and brown on campus today than I have in a long, long time. And the place was just buzzing.

I also thought the players were enjoying the journey in Albany. They just seemed so much happier and more relaxed than any of the other teams. (Of course winning helps with that!)

As someone who saw RIT win the DII championship in 1983, choose to go DIII instead of DI after that, then win the DIII championship in 1985, ..., and now be in the DI Frozen Four (after many DIII Frozen Fours and runners ups in between and many years of lobbying for the move to DI) ... the journey has been spectacular. And Detroit will rock regardless of what happens on the ice next Thursday.

Onion Man
03-29-2010, 05:31 PM
I think the recent Red Sox runs can help illustrate this. When you've never won (or gone 80 years in their case), the trophy is all that matters because its a mountain that needs to be climbed.

Once you win, the passion to win it all is secondary to the passion to remain a constant contender for the trophy so you enjoy the ride more. Since UNH is the school being talked about here, once they win (assuming they ever do), crashes like this year won't seem as bad because they contended.

I think that if UNH had beaten BU last spring, they would have won it all, but I digress.

Got 6, Want More
03-29-2010, 05:59 PM
While EVERYONE wants to win the national championship or League Championships, for me it is absolutely about the journey. If it is only about the trophy, you are going to be one majorly frustrated fan. For me it is about recruiting character and watching them develop and reveal that over a short four year career. Marsh has hit the longest dry spell of his career as head coach at SLU (9 years without an ECAC championship), but there is still no one I'd rather have leading the program, turning out incredible young men, seeing them excel as complete student=athletes, and putting a great and entertaining product on the ice every year. As a member of the teams way back, winning it all would have been great, but it is the four years of memories and learning that I treasure, not one vaneer wood trophy sitting in a case at Appleton Arena.

As Joe Marsh always says, the key is not to let the highs get to high or the lows get to low. I think that is right for the fans too. There is a lot of satisfaction in being consistently good, a respected oponent, a team that never gets outworked. It also underscores a philosophy which is to be an educator first. To me, it is college hockey, you are paid to educate first and win second. In pro sports, it is the opposite. In pro sports, it is whether you win or lose, not the journey. That is the primary reason you see me watching college hockey every weekend instead of in the Garden or Verizon.

zoofer
03-29-2010, 06:24 PM
I tell you Got 6, that you are so right when talking about Joe....he's a good friend that I only get to see when SLU visits the Whitt....back in UNH days, Joe used to do a killer imitation of Snooks Kelley that had us all howling... when you see him, tell him I say hi and that dinners on me next time he hits the seacoast.... a great guy and coach...

Onion Man
03-29-2010, 06:25 PM
Marsh has hit the longest dry spell of his career as head coach at SLU (9 years without an ECAC championship), but there is still no one I'd rather have leading the program

Who needs a Red Berenson or Jerry York when you can have Joe Marsh. LOL. Come on, man.

Yager
03-29-2010, 06:28 PM
The classic debate:

http://moonbeammcqueen.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/journey.jpg versus http://nbcsportsmedia1.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200904112202793502596-pf.hmedium.jpg

quiddlet
03-29-2010, 06:32 PM
My answer to the question the thread title asks would be both.

For RIT this year the journey will be enough to make fans and the team happy, and it should be (though I hope they win it all!). Their program is in completely new territory and even new territory for their entire conference, and that's a big deal. For BU fans last year anything other than the trophy would have inadequate. It's all about expectations. UNH is a school that should be getting to the point where the fans are very frustrated about appearing in the post-season so often without any results. The same journey over and over again without a trophy? The journey isn't enough for a program like that... a program that has been itching for years to be the fourth HE school that can boast a NC trophy.

I'm sure they'll come by and talk about it themselves, but I'd guess BC fans will not be inconsolable if they come home without a trophy this year. The Eagles got one a couple years ago and one in 2001... they consistently contend and have actually gone the whole way as much in recent history as any other program in the nation. But UNH isn't BC... they haven't gone all the way and with so many shots, that has to be the goal at this point (Especially in years like 2008).

BU fans, I think, are doing alright not being in the tourney at all this year. I mean, it's disappointing, but we've had enough joy in recent memory to make up for that. Sure it was alright for UNH when the program began getting the a postseason in the 90s and making FF apparences in the late 90s but at some point it's not enough.

If you saw the looks on the UNH players / Umile's face after the RIT game you know the journey wasn't enough for them this year.

Got 6, Want More
03-29-2010, 06:34 PM
LOL.

This pretty much tells the whole story about you.....LOSER ON LINE!:rolleyes:

C-H-C
03-29-2010, 06:41 PM
We managed to maintain civility for 10 posts. Could we get it back?

FueledByRamen
03-29-2010, 06:43 PM
I used to think it was the trophy and only the trophy that mattered. I think there are a lot of fans and even programs that see it that way. But in 2007 when Michigan State won the title I felt my attitude on that change. I was 2 years old when MSU won the 1986 championship so I grew up hearing about all the Ron Mason teams that failed to win championships with the best talent in the nation.

Then in 2007 I watched an average group of players play a high level of hockey and win when they absolutely had to and overcome tremendous adversity to win it all. I'll never forget captain Chris Lawrence forgetting to tape his stick before the championship game because he was so nervous, or that after the game he stayed dressed for over an hour because he knew it would be his last time wearing a Spartan jersey.

I believe we love College Hockey because of the journey. Those that follow the NHL closely or other professional leagues, they care about the trophy. College players are not the most skilled in the world, but they always seem to play with heart beyond their means. It's the stories of the players that play because they love the game that endears us to college hockey.

That's just my 2 cents.

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Great post.

Rand
03-29-2010, 06:48 PM
In all honesty, isn't it 2 journeys, AND the trophy???

When you have your regular season, the goal of that journey is to make the playoffs/ NCAA's...

The second journey (the playoffs/NCAA's) has the goal of being titled "Champion" and awarded for completing that journey, or rather both journeys with a trophy...

Perhaps many take the journey for granted, because they expect to be there at the end, and when they're not (see UNH, DU, UM, Cornell, etc), the journey is considered a failure..while others (like RIT), either expectedly or not, find themselves within grasp of that elusive trophy, and maybe fail to win it, consider the journey a failure, and only then look back and understand what an incredible journey it was...

billb
03-29-2010, 07:13 PM
Let me tell you something, Zoofer, as you're a newcomer here. I, also, am a long-time UNH fan, longer than you, and I am entitled to my opinions, having seen the el foldo year-in and year-out. Nick P. is not even a UNH fan or alumnus! Why are you mentioning him in the "vitriol" part? NCAA Watcher is a very respected fan and observer. There's no "vitriol" from him; his posts are nearly clinical.
I don't care whom you know in the fieldhouse or with whom you've shared an office, but if you want to single me out, at least spell my username correctly.
Regardless, from my athletic experiences, the fact that there's no trophy counts more the closer in time you are to the event/loss, and the journey means more as the years have transpired, and the friendships, the rivalries, the great plays and the bad, all are put in their proper perspectives as we say, "What fun we had!" when we were young.

mookie1995
03-29-2010, 08:23 PM
http://moonbeammcqueen.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/journey.jpg

that chick in the red is pretty hot! ;)

Got 6, Want More
03-29-2010, 08:30 PM
I tell you Got 6, that you are so right when talking about Joe....he's a good friend that I only get to see when SLU visits the Whitt....back in UNH days, Joe used to do a killer imitation of Snooks Kelley that had us all howling... when you see him, tell him I say hi and that dinners on me next time he hits the seacoast.... a great guy and coach...

His impact on those lucky enough to work with him and know him has been truly awesome. I couldn't ask for a better coach for my school. I really don't know any alums or fans that feel differently than I do...and if I do meet one I'll keep me distance because it is a person with issues. I have never seen any program run with so much integrity and passion for educating kids. He rewards effort, he plays the best player regardless of whether they were on scholarship or walk-ons. As a Saint, I feel really lucky to have him as a coach, and friend!