Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

[NJCPolarBear]

Mass Hockey A Joke

To send some of the best Tier 1 girls hockey teams in the country to a Tier 2 tournament is a disgrace!

Old Man Carl and the rest of the Old Boys Club in Mass need to look in the mirror [that may be pretty scary for most of them]. Totally ruined an otherwise very competitive Tier 2 tournament.

Can you imagine if the boys from your district sent the loser of the AAA Bantam Majors to Tier 2 Nationals? You would never hear the end of it.

Nice job Bay State and Spitfires...hope you're happy with those Tier 2 medals and Mass Hockey is happy with the 'sweep' at Tier 2 Nationals.....[also nice to see AV slipping at Tier 1]

[Hux]

Re: Mass Hockey A Joke

To send some of the best Tier 1 girls hockey teams in the country to a Tier 2 tournament is a disgrace!

Old Man Carl and the rest of the Old Boys Club in Mass need to look in the mirror [that may be pretty scary for most of them]. Totally ruined an otherwise very competitive Tier 2 tournament.

Can you imagine if the boys from your district sent the loser of the AAA Bantam Majors to Tier 2 Nationals? You would never hear the end of it.

Nice job Bay State and Spitfires...hope you're happy with those Tier 2 medals and Mass Hockey is happy with the 'sweep' at Tier 2 Nationals.....[also nice to see AV slipping at Tier 1]

Had nothing to do with Carl Gray, and everything to do with poor planning prior to the season on the part of Mass Hockey, and then putting in place a plan that backfired. I can guarantee you that Mass Hockey was against sending either team, but was getting pressure from USA Hockey to ensure a full field.

[prepplayer]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Mass hockey could have sent the spitfires U19B team that won the states? Don't know why they didn't. They still would have gotten a team...

[Sweden]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Exactly

[YankeeZulu]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Although I agree with those of you that think Mass Hockey did a disservice to T2 USA hockey Tournament, what I think was even more disgracefull was the behavior of the players, parents and COACHES of most of the teams that played against the Mass players (SOME of these Mass players were as young as 11 years old).

Although I was not there I have it from a completely reliable source that the above mentioned people were way out of control. Words weren't bad enough these people were telling their kids to intentionally hurt the Mass kids any way they could including using their sticks as weapons. Take a look at some of the penalties that are listed if you have any doubts. SHAME ON THEM.

And SHAME on USA Hockey and the refs that were there for not doing more to protect these kids.

Anyone found to be guilty of any of the aboved mentioned offenses should be kicked out of USA Hockey. There is no room for this type of behavior in USA Hockey.

Does the word Bully mean anything when you see whats going on in the world today. Criminal charges are starting to be handed out to people in these situations, so USA Hockey and the above mentioned people, be carefull.

Place the blame where it belongs, leave the kids out of it

Wasn't there. I took F&I's advice and just went through the stats for all of the Tier II BayState Breakers and Mass Spitfires games. I think F&I's info above about undue violence in these games is greatly exaggerated. I saw nothing out of line in the number or type of penalties in any of the U12, U14, and U16 games. Also, no major penalties at any of these games or the U19 games that I reviewed. They usually call it tight at the Nationals at all levels, so you do expect more minors than in your local league. And they definitely will call majors when warranted. In one U19 game, it looks like the St Clair Shores Saints decided to bully the Spitfires rather than play hockey, ending up with something like 17 minors -- lot of roughing (checking), slashing, etc. A double minor for roughing and a misconduct to boot. The rough play started right off, not a consequence of a one-sided game. All of the other U19 games with the Spitfires looked relatively peaceful. So, one bad apple. A team I've never heard of before. Not an indictment of USA Hockey management of the games or the other Tier II teams at the tournament. F&I: If I missed a game that you were particularly concerned about, please point it out to me.

[NJCPolarBear]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Riiiiiiight. Old Man Carl has nothing to do with Mass Hockey. That's a good one! Try again.

Tier 1 teams at Tier 2 Nationals = Championships for Mass Hockey. Pretty simple to see what went on here in the back-rooms up in Mass. [and I don't buy the 'they were just too lazy' theory].

A disgrace.

[Sweden]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

The winners of the State bound championships at each age level should have been sent.

I assume next year, Mass will hold a Tier I, Tier II state championship

[girlshockeyfan]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Riiiiiiight. Old Man Carl has nothing to do with Mass Hockey. That's a good one! Try again.

Tier 1 teams at Tier 2 Nationals = Championships for Mass Hockey. Pretty simple to see what went on here in the back-rooms up in Mass. [and I don't buy the 'they were just too lazy' theory].

A disgrace.

I guess what I don't really understand is why you are making assumptions when you clearly don't know the truth. What incentive would Carl have to push this type of scenario? Wouldn't he rather see his 2 teams (that won at the non-national bound tournament at U14 and U16) go to Tier 2 Nationals?

Clearly what happened here with the Massachusetts teams is not right and not good for the spirit of Tier 2, but I think people in Massachusetts have been really successful at growing the girls' game and the programs in Massachusetts. It's no longer just Assabet...there are a lot of other great programs with multiple teams that are developing girls. If Mass Hockey went the route of sending the best "2" team (as has been suggested) then, well, it would have been Assabet and the Wizards at 3 of the 4 levels. On one hand I think it's great that multiple programs from Massachusetts were able to experience a National tournament - it's just too bad that it happened this way. I don't think we'd be having this discussion if the teams went out to Nationals and lost. I know Mass Hockey had right of first refusal to send 2 teams at each level to the Tier 2 nationals and they chose to send only 1.

Notice no one is even talking about the NJ Colonials U12 team that went to the Tier 2 nationals...this is the "1" team from that program, the best team in the Atlantic district, and even carried 4 kids on the roster who were at the Tier 1 nationals last year.

[fireandice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Wasn't there. I took F&I's advice and just went through the stats for all of the Tier II BayState Breakers and Mass Spitfires games. I think F&I's info above about undue violence in these games is greatly exaggerated. I saw nothing out of line in the number or type of penalties in any of the U12, U14, and U16 games. Also, no major penalties at any of these games or the U19 games that I reviewed. They usually call it tight at the Nationals at all levels, so you do expect more minors than in your local league. And they definitely will call majors when warranted. In one U19 game, it looks like the St Clair Shores Saints decided to bully the Spitfires rather than play hockey, ending up with something like 17 minors -- lot of roughing (checking), slashing, etc. A double minor for roughing and a misconduct to boot. The rough play started right off, not a consequence of a one-sided game. All of the other U19 games with the Spitfires looked relatively peaceful. So, one bad apple. A team I've never heard of before. Not an indictment of USA Hockey management of the games or the other Tier II teams at the tournament. F&I: If I missed a game that you were particularly concerned about, please point it out to me.

As I said before things got out of control. You are correct at the younger level the penalties on the ice were fairly normal but as I said it was not only the players but the parents and coaches at all levels. The things coming out of the stands were very disturbing at all levels. The Skills competition was horrible with parents and players booing any Mass girl whose name was announced as being in the competition and even more so if they won. The further these girls went in this competition the more hostile it got. And this was happening at almost all of the games.

They did have a coaches meeting finally and I assume the coaches were told to tone it down. Some people listened, others didn't.

It was so bad that the Mass girls were told not to travel around by themselves and to basically use the buddy system and travel in groups.

Yankee if you want to call me out on how you read the penalties thats fine, but read my statement through thoroughly. It was not just the people on the ice, it was the people in the stands, and the people on the benches that allowed this type of behavior to go on. Lets comment on that as well. Someone let this go on, no one was kicked out of the stands regardless of how obnoxious they were. Who was in charge of this tournament?
Again these are kids that we are talking about.

I do want to point out that there were some good organizations there that handled the situation with class. Team Wyoming was one, great group of kids and parents in that organization.

[UCONN FAN]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Riiiiiiight. Old Man Carl has nothing to do with Mass Hockey. That's a good one! Try again.

Tier 1 teams at Tier 2 Nationals = Championships for Mass Hockey. Pretty simple to see what went on here in the back-rooms up in Mass. [and I don't buy the 'they were just too lazy' theory].

A disgrace.

[CalHockey]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Let me give you the other side of the coin.

I was watching the U19 MA Spitfires demolish the opposing team. After the game was over, the gentleman (?) to my right booed the girls and was making really unsportman like comments. I had told him that it was not the girls choice, they were here to play a game. He "got off" on me telling me how much he spent to get there, what his team went through, the girls had a choice, the parents had a choice and the coach had a choice.

While this person and I were arguing, another parent from my daughters team, came in with a more moderate view but assented to the fact that whatever choice was made, the girls are just that, girls. They made a decision, whether bad or good, right or wrong, and would have to live with it. This discussion became more heated when a MA Spitfire mother accused me of unsportsman like conduct by yelling at the girls. I rarely make any comments directed towards the ice, but only towards officials on the ice. Never directed towards players. All "mom" noted is where the comments came from, but not who, so "I" was the designated bad guy. Two of us were arguing with the third, and "mom" came in the middle and gave me a hard time. "Mom's" husband finally took her out of the situation. I think that he "got it", and mom was defending her child and team. The person that was yelling the comments to the players is a horses rear, plain and simple.

Regardless of the outcome, all the girls played to their best level. It is just too bad that the tier I teams played in the tier II Nationals. The tier II teams had no chance. Sort of like having the NY Yankees play a little league team in their nationals. There was a definate difference between MA, TX, and the remainder of the teams (in the U19 division) in skill.

I was informed by a third party that the club was told that if they hadn't gone to Nats, there would be negative consequences for them next year. I do not know if that is true, but that is what the rumor was.

See yall next year

[NJCPolarBear]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

"girlshockeyfan"....you are lost. The NJ Colonial u12 team that went to Nationals was a legit. Tier 2 team. Look at the scores...and to be honest, they were extremely lucky to do as well as they did [could have lost every game they played and were fortunate to get a bronze].

Be happy for Carl and the rest of the pompous crowd in Mass...you did a fine job of ruining a great event. Your day is coming...the rest of the country is catching you [just like what's happened with the boys...once upon a time, Mass ruled the country...not any more.

[IceIsNice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Let me give you the other side of the coin.

I was watching the U19 MA Spitfires demolish the opposing team. After the game was over, the gentleman (?) to my right booed the girls and was making really unsportman like comments. I had told him that it was not the girls choice, they were here to play a game. He "got off" on me telling me how much he spent to get there, what his team went through, the girls had a choice, the parents had a choice and the coach had a choice.

While this person and I were arguing, another parent from my daughters team, came in with a more moderate view but assented to the fact that whatever choice was made, the girls are just that, girls. They made a decision, whether bad or good, right or wrong, and would have to live with it. This discussion became more heated when a MA Spitfire mother accused me of unsportsman like conduct by yelling at the girls. I rarely make any comments directed towards the ice, but only towards officials on the ice. Never directed towards players. All "mom" noted is where the comments came from, but not who, so "I" was the designated bad guy. Two of us were arguing with the third, and "mom" came in the middle and gave me a hard time. "Mom's" husband finally took her out of the situation. I think that he "got it", and mom was defending her child and team. The person that was yelling the comments to the players is a horses rear, plain and simple.

Regardless of the outcome, all the girls played to their best level. It is just too bad that the tier I teams played in the tier II Nationals. The tier II teams had no chance. Sort of like having the NY Yankees play a little league team in their nationals. There was a definate difference between MA, TX, and the remainder of the teams (in the U19 division) in skill.

I was informed by a third party that the club was told that if they hadn't gone to Nats, there would be negative consequences for them next year. I do not know if that is true, but that is what the rumor was.

See yall next year

One of the most reasonable and objective posts on this thread. I'm from Mass., but not affiliated with any of these Mass. teams. I understand a bit about how Mass. hockey politics work, and yes the programs would have been declared ineligible from participating in next year's State's if they did not comply with this outrageous rule set by Mass. Hockey.

Oh, and for the record, Mass has not ruled the girls hockey world for several years. Minnesota clearly owns that title, though it pains me to admit it.

The situation sucked, and it wasn't right, but the individuals who showed up in Michigan were nothing more than good soldiers obeying a very poor set of orders.

Thanks for the post, Calhockey..... sorry for your experience, both your team and you personally in the stands, but power to you for seeing it for what it was.

[IceIsNice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Your day is coming...the rest of the country is catching you [just like what's happened with the boys...once upon a time, Mass ruled the country...not any more.

You know, I've been thinking about this post for the last couple of days, realizing how incredibly incorrect it was but also facing a deep conundrum over whether to legitimize this arrogant whiney poster with a response. Since my response is fact based, I figured sure....why not!

Mass. does not rule the country in hockey. Take a look at the roster of the US Olympic team for starters. Then look at the respective rosters of the U22 team and the U18 team. Are there representatives? Sure! But many more from the rest of the country especially from Minnesota which is the real ruling class of women's hockey. You can even look at the rosters of the four teams in the frozen four. Of course, based on your posts in the American-Canadian thread you'll be annoyed to notice that about half of the participants of the frozen four were from Canada or Europe, but out of the remaining US players you'll find only two from all of New England meanwhile there are a plethora from Minnesota.

Do your homework. Oh, and.... I DARE you to post something positive and funny once in a while. Try smiling, it feels good sometimes!

[live4hockey]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Well, Mass may not control hockey, but let's be honest....they are pretty close to it! Because Minn doesn't send u12 and u14 tier 1 teams, Mass gets to send 2 to Nationals. And the u12 "tier 2" Mass team, Bay State Breakers (which of course won the tier 2 tournament) had previously won the CT POlar Bear AA bracket. The u12 East Coast Wizards (good job Paul!) won the tier 1 tournament, but one could surmise that between ECW, Assabet and BSB, they could have placed 1-2-3 at Nationals tier 1 if they were all there!