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Blueliner03
03-22-2010, 11:23 PM
Good evening, all. New to following D-II/III hockey outside of the NCHA and MCHA. Was able to see all three Frozzzen Four games on TV this weekend, good stuff, to bad St. Norbert couldn't pull it off.

Recently I have been scouring the internet for any historical D-III conference standings and this is what I have found:

The MCHA, NESCAC and MASCAC being relatively new conferences have records going back to 99-00 (98-99 for MCHA) thanks to USCHO, collegehockeystats.net and the MCHA websites.

I have found NCHA conference and overall results dating back to that conference's inception circa 1981 or 1982. I have also found post season and even WIAC results from within the NCHA.

MIAC overall standings exist in complete form going back to the 60s, conference standings only go back to 1995.

I have not been able to locate any NYCHA, ECAC East, West, North-South, or North/Central/South archived standings. There are a few teams, primarily the now D-I schools, who have overall results in their media guides but no historical conference and overall standings.

I have been wondering if there are any archives out there with final conference standings and conference tournament results dating to the mid 80s when the NCAA began sponsoring a D-III National Tournament? Did I overlook anything on the NCAA or ECAC websites?

Thank you.

CollegeHockey2591
03-23-2010, 12:40 AM
what?

joeyc3402
03-23-2010, 06:51 AM
what?

He's looking for archives of all of the conferences (current and past) of D-III hockey.

Blueliner03
03-23-2010, 06:55 AM
Sorry, my post resembles IRC amendments.

Would there happen to be any links to historical D-III hockey conference standings dating back to 1983-84?

Thank you.

cooperalls
03-23-2010, 07:49 AM
Good Luck finding anything on the ECAC East or West!


Good evening, all. New to following D-II/III hockey outside of the NCHA and MCHA. Was able to see all three Frozzzen Four games on TV this weekend, good stuff, to bad St. Norbert couldn't pull it off.

Recently I have been scouring the internet for any historical D-III conference standings and this is what I have found:

The MCHA, NESCAC and MASCAC being relatively new conferences have records going back to 99-00 (98-99 for MCHA) thanks to USCHO, collegehockeystats.net and the MCHA websites.

I have found NCHA conference and overall results dating back to that conference's inception circa 1981 or 1982. I have also found post season and even WIAC results from within the NCHA.

MIAC overall standings exist in complete form going back to the 60s, conference standings only go back to 1995.

I have not been able to locate any NYCHA, ECAC East, West, North-South, or North/Central/South archived standings. There are a few teams, primarily the now D-I schools, who have overall results in their media guides but no historical conference and overall standings.

I have been wondering if there are any archives out there with final conference standings and conference tournament results dating to the mid 80s when the NCAA began sponsoring a D-III National Tournament? Did I overlook anything on the NCAA or ECAC websites?

Thank you.

Blueliner03
03-23-2010, 12:00 PM
Good Luck finding anything on the ECAC East or West!
I think I may need more than good luck for that.

one_to7
03-23-2010, 04:09 PM
I think I may need more than good luck for that.
Your best bet is probably sending a letter or email to the office of the respective conferences you're interested in.

The MIAC has conference standings dating back to 1960, so you've got those at least. The other ones should hopefully reply to email or letter requests.

The defunct ones..... those you'll probably need something close to divine intervention, unfortunately.

Matthew Webb
03-23-2010, 04:16 PM
The MIAC has conference standings dating back to 1960, so you've got those at least.

The St. John's media guide has MIAC history dating back all the way to the 30's I think. Not specifically sure what all is included, but there's definitely some info there. Might cost you $2, dude, but it would be worth it.

PrezdeJohnson09
03-23-2010, 04:19 PM
The St. John's media guide has MIAC history dating back all the way to the 30's I think. Not specifically sure what all is included, but there's definitely some info there. Might cost you $2, dude, but it would be worth it.

Just charge that to your monthly USCHO expenses report:cool:

Oh wait.;)

Blueliner03
03-23-2010, 07:20 PM
Thanks all for the recommendations. It is a marvel that records do not exist online prior to 1999 for a conference like the D-III ECAC.

What I have been able to piece together through various team media guides is much of the ECAC North-South and N/C/S playoffs/tournaments and some regular season games. Also, some ECAC East-West tourney data with little to no regular season data. More effort than I care to invest, especially since my primary interest was the old conference alignments over the years since the D-III tournament began.

Matthew Webb
03-24-2010, 11:21 AM
Just charge that to your monthly USCHO expenses report:cool:

Oh wait.;)


Just bill it to the room.

joecct
03-24-2010, 12:52 PM
Thanks all for the recommendations. It is a marvel that records do not exist online prior to 1999 for a conference like the D-III ECAC.

What I have been able to piece together through various team media guides is much of the ECAC North-South and N/C/S playoffs/tournaments and some regular season games. Also, some ECAC East-West tourney data with little to no regular season data. More effort than I care to invest, especially since my primary interest was the old conference alignments over the years since the D-III tournament began.Have you thought about writing the ECAC on Cape Cod and asking what they have?

This is from college hockey archives (http://www.augenblick.org/chha/):

There is a great deal of confusion surrounding collegiate athletics in regards to a school's classification, particularly in the non-revenue sports (not football or basketball). In hockey, every school can be classified in three ways:

National Affiliation - The classification of the school as a whole, which depends greatly on how good a football team the school had in the 1930s. Frequently assumed to be based on enrollment size.
Hockey Affiliation - Classification of the men's ice hockey team, which is usually, but not always, the same as the national affiliation. This is a good indicator of how successful the hockey team was in the 1960s and 1970s.
Hockey Playing Level - The actual level of competition of the hockey team. Usually the same as the hockey affiliation, but there are exceptions.
When collegiate sports developed in the 19th century, there was no NCAA or any type of classification. Schools played whomever they wanted in whatever sports they fielded. The NCAA was founded in 1906 to govern track and field events. Their first expansion a few years later was to monitor football, mostly because of the numerous deaths that were occurring each year. Until the 1930s, all schools were equal in the NCAA's eyes.

In 1937, all NCAA members were officially designated as either a major or college team. This was an adoption of an informal football classification that had existed for a few decades. Major football schools were those institutions that played a minimum number of games against other major colleges, a definition that permitted a degree of circular logic. The size of the school was not a determining factor. The major schools were those that were popular, successful or played other majors (whether successfully or not). The lack of enrollment as a criteria for major status permitted small colleges such as Colgate to become a major school whereas other larger, unsuccessful schools gained college status. As other sports came under the NCAA umbrella, they usually adopted the school's overall affiliation.

For sports with fewer than normal schools participating, the college/major distinction was generally ignored. Since so few schools played hockey and those that did were in two distinct geographical regions, all hockey teams were considered equal. It was not until the 1960s, when the ECAC, with over 25 members, felt the need to divide its conference, that hockey began to adopt distinctions. Using a similar method that football had used three decades earlier, the better and popular teams formed the ECAC Division 1 and the rest of the schools became Division 2. Good hockey schools, like Rensselaer and Clarkson, were awarded major status in hockey although were college status in other sports. Connecticut, on the other hand, was a major school that opted for college status. Out west, far fewer varsity hockey teams meant the WCHA, the only conference at that time, would be a major college conference.

At a special NCAA convention on August 1, 1973, all major schools were reclassified as Division 1 and college schools were divided into Divisions 2 and 3. This was applied to all sports within a decade, with those college schools playing major hockey being classified as Division 1 in hockey and Division 2 or 3 in everything else, and vice-versa for major schools playing college status hockey. The schools on the college level could move into Division 2 or Division 3 as they saw fit. Most took the same status as their national affiliation, if not Division 1.

Further confusion arose from the ECAC's internal structure which classified what is now ECAC East-West-SUNY as Division 2 and the current Northeast conference as Division 3, while the school's hockey status may be different. The ECAC's designations reflected the playing level of the school, not the technical hockey affiliation. The East-West-SUNY schools (old ECAC Division 2) devote greater resources to their hockey programs than the others and therefore are rated higher in the ECAC.

This rather confusing system of labeling sports results in some anomalies. Merrimack is a Division 2 school that plays Division 1 hockey on the Division 1 level. Rensselaer is a Division 3 school that plays Division 1 hockey on the Division 1 level. Connecticut is a Division 1 school that formerly played Division 1 hockey on the Division 3 level. Over a dozen schools play Division 1 hockey but are institutionally classified Division 2 or Division 3, while 6 Division 1 schools once played at a lower level, but (in name only) fielded a Division 1 team.

No one ever said anything about the NCAA would be easy to understand. That is what college is for.

Blueliner03
03-24-2010, 07:49 PM
Have you thought about writing the ECAC on Cape Cod and asking what they have?
I think if I had more of a desire to persue the acutal standings than simply the division alignments I might inquire. I just figured that the standings would have been available and what better source to confirm old conference alignments. Now that I had finally got around to reading...


This is from college hockey archives (http://www.augenblick.org/chha/):
...this link just last evening it all but confirms much what I have found regarding the ECACs. Perhaps someday I will polish up my findings in a spreadsheet. For now, the Ides of April loom.

norm1909
03-28-2010, 07:41 PM
Considerable historical data can be found here (http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/teamHistory.php?td=338), using Norwich since 1925 as an example. (Use the "Search" box).

Here is a heck of a coaching record (http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/coachHistory.php?cid=2158) ;) 1896-1976

LtPowers
03-28-2010, 08:27 PM
Considerable historical data can be found here (http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/teamHistory.php?td=338), using Norwich since 1925 as an example. (Use the "Search" box).

Take it with a grain of salt, though, as it has RIT being Division II up through 1986, even though we won the D-III championship in '85.


Powers &8^]

norm1909
03-28-2010, 08:46 PM
Take it with a grain of salt, though, as it has RIT being Division II up through 1986, even though we won the D-III championship in '85.


Powers &8^]

From page 71 of the 2009-10 RIT Media Guide: (http://www.ritathletics.com/documents/2009/10/2/RIThockeyFinallores.pdf)


In 1980, the RIT men’s hockey program made a giant step forward by moving to the Division II level of play. This meant playing a challenging
25-game schedule featuring 16 matches against Division II teams. RIT also began playing in the New York State College Hockey League (NYSCHL), comprised solely of Division II schools. The league folded in 1985-86.

Division II championships were NOT held 1985-1992, and RIT remained a member of the NYSCHL through its folding, hense the listing.


The 1982-83 season marked a milestone in the program, as the Tigers won their first NCAA Championship in Division II. In the two-game quarterfinal series, RIT defeated Mankato State and went on to beat Lowell 4-1 in the semifinals, advancing them to the championship game, where they defeated Bemidji State, 4-2. The next year RIT moved to the Division III level. The Tigers repeated again as champions in 1984-85, this time at the Division III level, defeating Bemidji State once again, by a score of 5-1. In 1988-89 the ECAC Division III formed two more divisions, adding a North and a South Division. With this change, RIT moved to the ECAC West and continued its status as a powerhouse in that division, winning seven conference titles in 17 seasons, including four straight, from 1998 to 2002.

Also, why they are not a strong case for being a Cinderella:


On March 7-8, 2008, the Tigers played their first postseason games, as a Division I program, defeating Holy Cross both nights in overtime by scores of 5-4 in the Atlantic Hockey Association Quarterfinals. Last season, RIT set a Division I school record by winning 23 games and were victorious in 11 straight contests. The Tigers advanced to the AHA semifinals and were second nationally in goals per game (3.89). Will the 2009-10 Tigers make history and make their first NCAA Division I Tournament?

LtPowers
03-29-2010, 10:40 AM
Division II championships were NOT held 1985-1992, and RIT remained a member of the NYSCHL through its folding, hense the listing.

So how did we win a D-III tournament if we were D-II? I thought D-II teams weren't eligible for the D-III postseason.


Powers &8^]

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
03-29-2010, 12:28 PM
So how did we win a D-III tournament if we were D-II? I thought D-II teams weren't eligible for the D-III postseason.


Powers &8^]

They were at the time. (How else did you beat bemidji in the finals, and then watch Bemidji beat "#vacated" the next year for the title?)

LtPowers
03-29-2010, 06:34 PM
They were at the time. (How else did you beat bemidji in the finals, and then watch Bemidji beat "#vacated" the next year for the title?)

Well, I'd always assumed Bemidji dropped down to D-III like RIT did, but now that you mention it, Bemidji is a D-II school in all sports, aren't they?


Powers &8^]

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
03-29-2010, 09:54 PM
Well, I'd always assumed Bemidji dropped down to D-III like RIT did, but now that you mention it, Bemidji is a D-II school in all sports, aren't they?


Powers &8^]

Correct. Bemidji is DII.