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FRICKER
03-22-2010, 03:46 AM
If the BB guys can talk about expanding to 96 teams (when a #16 hasn't EVER beaten a #1), why can't we talk about a modest expansion from the fiels of 16? What I'd like to see is and expansion from sixteen to 20 or 22 teams, with Nos. 17-20 or 22 playing a "playin game" against Nos. 13-16.
There are always teams that end up on the outside looking in, but #17 probably is usually more deserving of a chance that a #21 or 23. For example,
Ferris State was a top ranked team all year and didn't make the field becasue of a couple close losses. Whatdaya think?

Sar'nt
03-22-2010, 04:02 AM
If the BB guys can talk about expanding to 96 teams (when a #16 hasn't EVER beaten a #1), why can't we talk about a modest expansion from the fiels of 16? What I'd like to see is and expansion from sixteen to 20 or 22 teams, with Nos. 17-20 or 22 playing a "playin game" against Nos. 13-16.
There are always teams that end up on the outside looking in, but #17 probably is usually more deserving of a chance that a #21 or 23. For example,
Ferris State was a top ranked team all year and didn't make the field becasue of a couple close losses. Whatdaya think?

Because the field is already large compared to the number of teams overall. As it stands, over a quarter of total teams make it to the tournament. 96 teams in basketball would be proportionately equivalent to the current hockey bracket.

richl49
03-22-2010, 04:07 AM
No.

FRICKER
03-22-2010, 04:38 AM
Remember all, Holy Cross beat Minnesota a few years ago so parity exists a lot more in D1 hockey that basketball.

Ralph Baer
03-22-2010, 04:49 AM
Remember all, Holy Cross beat Minnesota a few years ago so parity exists a lot more in D1 hockey that basketball.

That isn't a reason to include more schools. Any school is capable of an upset or two, but the schools all knew what it had to do all year to make the tourney. The ones that didn't make it didn't do it. 16 out of 58, as has been said, is already over the recommended 25%.

I am not a fan of continually watering down sports tourneys.

hockeyplayer1015
03-22-2010, 06:11 AM
Absolutely not. If anything, it will get scaled back down to 12 teams at 2 regionals again, but it won't be expanding anytime soon until the BTHC is established;)
I keed, I keed, but I had to.

Hammer
03-22-2010, 07:25 AM
65 teams over 348 schools is what we have in D-1 college hoops. That ratio in hockey would lead to an 11-team NCAA tournament.

We're lucky to have a 16 team tournament as it is.

theprofromdover
03-22-2010, 07:35 AM
No.

What he said.

ScoobyDoo
03-22-2010, 08:05 AM
We're lucky to have a 16 team tournament as it is.

Correct. They may start pushing it back to 12.

Dirty
03-22-2010, 08:09 AM
Hockey should beat basketball to the punch and have a 96 team tournament. Include 38 DIII teams.

gscott13
03-22-2010, 08:26 AM
If the BB guys can talk about expanding to 96 teams (when a #16 hasn't EVER beaten a #1), why can't we talk about a modest expansion from the fiels of 16? What I'd like to see is and expansion from sixteen to 20 or 22 teams, with Nos. 17-20 or 22 playing a "playin game" against Nos. 13-16.
There are always teams that end up on the outside looking in, but #17 probably is usually more deserving of a chance that a #21 or 23. For example,
Ferris State was a top ranked team all year and didn't make the field becasue of a couple close losses. Whatdaya think?

like most, i am reading this as a thinly veiled "my team got screwed" thread, so with that in mind...

in agreement with everyone else that it does not need to be expanded. 16 is a quarter of the total teams playing d1 hockey.

that said, when looking at ferris state, they were 11th in RPI, 14th in KRACH and 15th in the Pairwise. Ferris didn't take care of their business during the regular season/playoffs, and their overall record, while impressive at 21-13-6, was against the 30th ranked schedule in college hockey... their out of conference schedule was weak at best, 6-2-0 against Robert Morris (2-0), Canisius (1-1), Uconn (2-0), Merrimack (1-0) and Yale (0-1).

a "couple of close losses" did not keep them out of the tournament. If you are going to play a weak OOC schedule (1 game vs a TUC), then you need to get it done in conference, which they often times did not. (0-3-2 vs miami, 0-2-0 vs alaska, 1-1-0 vs michigan state, 1-1-0 vs michigan, 0-2-1 vs nmu). their overall record against tucs of 6-10-3 kept them out. 15-3-3 against non-tuc.

Hammer
03-22-2010, 08:28 AM
like most, i am reading this as a thinly veiled "my team got screwed" thread, so with that in mind...


Incorrect. Fricker is not a Ferris poster.

A couple of close losses did keep Ferris out: The two that we took last weekend. If we win either game, or tie on Saturday, we are not having this conversation.

The Rube
03-22-2010, 08:33 AM
Hockey should beat basketball to the punch and have a 96 team tournament. Include 38 DIII teams.

I think the opposite should happen. They should just have the conference winners play in a tournament. If you can't win your own conference, you don't deserve crap.

Dirty
03-22-2010, 08:37 AM
I think the opposite should happen. They should just have the conference winners play in a tournament. If you can't win your own conference, you don't deserve crap.

That's a good idea. In fact, they should just give the national championship to the team that wins the conference tournament of the best league.

8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FlagDUDE08
03-22-2010, 08:37 AM
I think the opposite should happen. They should just have the conference winners play in a tournament. If you can't win your own conference, you don't deserve crap.

Heck, that's what they do in the NYSPHSAA. Perhaps put in three wild cards (since we're going to 5 conferences), and then have a best 2-out-of-3 for the play-in round, and then your frozen four? Or, take your suggestion, have a national frozen five, and then a play-in game to the frozen four.

FlagDUDE08
03-22-2010, 08:39 AM
That's a good idea. In fact, they should just give the national championship to the team that wins the conference tournament of the best league.

8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just what we need: twelve more threads each year about western/eastern bias.

gscott13
03-22-2010, 08:51 AM
Incorrect. Fricker is not a Ferris poster.

A couple of close losses did keep Ferris out: The two that we took last weekend. If we win either game, or tie on Saturday, we are not having this conversation.

but just about every team on the bubble can say that... maine wins one of their first two games of the season vs. union and they're in...

took a flyer on the assumption of it being a "my team got screwed" thread, and for that i apologize, but to say one win or loss kept them out isn't exactly true.... an outright win in any of the five games vs. miami, or the three games, vs northern, or the two vs alaska.... my point is, fsu had 10 opportunites to get it done (against those thre teams alone) and didn't... 10 separate losses/ties kept them out

aallenpollreisz
03-22-2010, 09:18 AM
Even as a fan of the second team out this season, I still say no. For a 58-team division, our tournament's the perfect size. Absolutely no changes are needed or necessary.

joegrav
03-22-2010, 09:24 AM
For fairness's sake, maybe I'll start a "back to 12 teams?" thread.

FRICKER
03-22-2010, 10:22 AM
For the record, Hammer:
* my dad - West Point
* me - Clarkson
* son #1 - UNH
* son #2 - Lake Superior State
Ok, if you don't like expanding the field, how about going with an (8) team including league champs & regular season champs from Hockey East, ECAC, CCHA, and WCHA, with the two of those with the worst records playing a play-in game. Of course, Minnesota & BU should always get first round byes.