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redeagle
03-17-2010, 05:30 PM
Once again, you prove what a clueless, dimwitted and clearly lying little twit you really are. Here's some actual facts from the most recent freshmen classes at Ohio State and Miami, junior.

*All information taken from each school's most recent common data set.

Acceptance Rate
Ohio State 56% Miami 78%

52% of Ohio State's freshmen class came from the top tenth of their high school class and 91% from the top quarter. For Miami, those numbers are 39% from the top tenth and 71% from the top quarter.

The middle 50% range on the ACT was 26-31 at Ohio State and 24-29 at Miami.

32% of Ohio State's freshmen class scored 30+ on the ACT. 18% of Miami's did.

6% of Ohio State's freshman class scored a 24 or below on the ACT. 25% of Miami's did.

As for knowing about the Miami athletic department's budget, it's public knowledge and easily accessible through the Indianapolis Star's online database. It's called "research" and "making sure one knows what he's talking about before clicking the keyboard." I suggest you try it some time, junior.

Of course this is silly, but Sterling you are forgetting one thing--you don't know how old rhm is. That would make a difference as to whether his statement is true. And if you are going to argue that the situation was not reversed a relatively short time ago, then you have no credibility. Just sayin'. OSU has done a nice job of upgrading on the academic/admissions dimension--good for them. The Big State U in Ohio should be that way, but it has not always been so.

THE OHIO STATE
03-17-2010, 05:37 PM
Craig Dahl , Former WCHA St. Cloud , Minnesota Head Coach.


Do you think he would step back into the coaching shoes? He did good with the program for a few years and then like alot of head coaches it started to fade away.

I think to be a good Head Coach in the D-1 program you need to know when to move on to another program or when to retire. :cool:

busboy
03-17-2010, 07:42 PM
The guy has no idea what he's talking about. He writes this:

"Markell recruited three players who would go on to become All-Americans. He recruited 18 players who would be drafted into the NHL, including three first-round picks and two second-round picks. Four of his players - R.J. Umberger of the Blue Jackets, Ryan Kesler of the Vancouver Canucks, Dave Steckel of the Washington Capitals and Rod Pelley of the New Jersey Devils - are well-established at the NHL level. A number of others are sprinkled throughout the minor leagues."


Yet, he doesn't have the ability to look at what all that talent actually accomplished (sporadic, mostly losing, trips to The Joe and the occasional 1st round NCAA loss) and broach the subject of how that talent was handled on the ice and developed (or lack thereof) off the ice.

In many ways (apr, grad rates, character of his athletes) Markell ran an first class program. He just couldn't produce.

Not so fast...2001-2005, the years covering Umberger, Steckel, Kesler, and Pelley, OSU won 20,25,26,27 games respectively - including 3 trips to the NCAA, 3 Joe appearances, and a CCHA Championship without Kesler or Umberger. That is called production.

Also, Umberger and Kesler came in from the National Program but neither were drafted until after time at OSU. Steckel had the tools, but he was put on the right line his freshman year and was an unexpected 1st rounder. Pelley was never a top recruit and fought for playing time early. He was a true development story. I think you're rewriting history if you don't give the staff credit for the good years.

ScoobyFanClub
03-17-2010, 07:56 PM
Explain to us all how an athletic department that's already relying on university subsidies for 2/3 of its budget has this war chest to keep hockey at the top should Blasi leave.

Explain to me the fundamental differences between Miami's current riding of a hot young coach for a limited period of success and Bowling Green's doing the same 25 years ago. What are the exact details that makes Miami's success sustainable post-Blasi whereas Bowling Green's quickly evaporated in the wake of York's departure?

Well Sterling, Miami endowed its hockey program, and is self-funded. That's how it went from the doldrums in the early 90s, to a growing power, to new arena, to consistent power.

Bowling Green competed in the 80s because a lot of smaller schools were able to ... Lake Superior State, Clarkson, RPI, Colgate, etc.... But that well ran dry for those kinds of programs.

Miami came along at a later time - and figured out a way to endow the hockey program.

This is what Bowling Green is now going to try to do.

Perhaps YOU are the one who needs to be educated.

Hockeybuckeye
03-17-2010, 08:36 PM
Not so fast...2001-2005, the years covering Umberger, Steckel, Kesler, and Pelley, OSU won 20,25,26,27 games respectively - including 3 trips to the NCAA, 3 Joe appearances, and a CCHA Championship without Kesler or Umberger. That is called production.

Also, Umberger and Kesler came in from the National Program but neither were drafted until after time at OSU. Steckel had the tools, but he was put on the right line his freshman year and was an unexpected 1st rounder. Pelley was never a top recruit and fought for playing time early. He was a true development story. I think you're rewriting history if you don't give the staff credit for the good years.

Good years? Too few and far between. OSU's athletic dept. has cited dismissal as a lack of CONSISTANCY. 3 trips to NCAA= 3 first round losses and last year we were totally blown out and embarrassed at the NCAA, great recruiting tool that one was. I don't know how we got the last berth but in all honesty, there were better teams that should have been considered over us. As proud as I am of the effort made by OSU when they won the Super Six does a 3 day tournament make a champion or how you finish in the regular season? Kessler was a one and done, no significant long term impact. RJ left thinking he was all that and would play right away in the NHL and it didn't happen. It was actually a good thing he left when he did as resentment was brewing as Markell turned and looked the other way too often with RJ on things other guys were getting disciplined for. Fifteen years and never could he even place in the top five of the conference 3 years in a row. Everyone has an occasional "off year" but Markell was mediocre compared to expectations to be able to do as well as Michigan or Michigan State and always have a good chance at the conference title and making the NCAA's year after year.

Sterling Cooper
03-17-2010, 09:33 PM
You would think OSU has bigger fish to try then the little old college in Oxford.

All must be assimilated.:D

nabo
03-17-2010, 09:34 PM
The only wise decision markell made was bringing in Casey Jones. Jones did all the work while Markell reaped all the benefits. If OSU was smart they would bring back the man that is really responsible for changing there program and the success they had!

busboy
03-17-2010, 09:43 PM
The only wise decision markell made was bringing in Casey Jones. Jones did all the work while Markell reaped all the benefits. If OSU was smart they would bring back the man that is really responsible for changing there program and the success they had!

Casey? Is that you?

gfmorris
03-17-2010, 09:43 PM
Wake me up when tOSU can beat UAH in hockey. :cool:

GFM

Hockeybuckeye
03-17-2010, 09:45 PM
Jones did all the work while Markell reaped all the benefits.

This part is very true. The players loathed Markell but loved Casey. However I would point out with caution that the programs lack of consistancy happened with Casey there too. The question is which part of what was being done there was Markell and which was Casey? Casey's biggest asset to OSU was recruiting but I think for peace of mind and to try and take the program in a completely different direction a clean slate it must be. I think Casey is happy where he is going back to his hockey roots.

Sterling Cooper
03-17-2010, 09:48 PM
Well Sterling, Miami endowed its hockey program, and is self-funded. That's how it went from the doldrums in the early 90s, to a growing power, to new arena, to consistent power.

Bowling Green competed in the 80s because a lot of smaller schools were able to ... Lake Superior State, Clarkson, RPI, Colgate, etc.... But that well ran dry for those kinds of programs.

Miami came along at a later time - and figured out a way to endow the hockey program.

This is what Bowling Green is now going to try to do.

Perhaps YOU are the one who needs to be educated.

Other than the unnecessary (since I was actually asking to be educated about what differentiated Miami from BG) smack at the end, that was a pretty good and informative post.

Can you expand upon how Miami "endowed" their hockey program and separated it from the rest of the athletic department's financial quicksand?

I'm looking at MU's financial statement on the Indy Star's database (http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/revenue_stat/show). It shows a total income from "endowments and investments" of only $97K that could be hockey specific--assuming non of it is earmarked for any sport not named football or basketball. (remainder is tagged as being either for football, men's and women's b-ball or "non program specific"). So, if that remaining $97K is devoted solely to hockey, that doesn't even cover Rico's salary much less covers the entire expenses of the program.

Even if the "non program specific" $285K is really designated for the hockey program, I'm not sure that those funds combined would make the program self-sustaining.

In any regards, thanks for an informative response rather than a drive by insult. Cheers, Scooby.

Sterling Cooper
03-17-2010, 10:04 PM
Wake me up when tOSU can beat UAH in hockey. :cool:

GFM

Wake me up when Alabama has anything the civilized world cares about.

gfmorris
03-17-2010, 10:27 PM
Wake me up when Alabama has anything the civilized world cares about.

Good luck getting to the moon without Huntsville. Besides, we're talking about facts, and ... tOSU still hasn't beaten UAH on the D-I level.

Oh, sorry ... you'd rather craft ad hominem attacks when it suits you.

GFM

busboy
03-17-2010, 10:29 PM
Good years? Too few and far between. OSU's athletic dept. has cited dismissal as a lack of CONSISTANCY. 3 trips to NCAA= 3 first round losses and last year we were totally blown out and embarrassed at the NCAA, great recruiting tool that one was. I don't know how we got the last berth but in all honesty, there were better teams that should have been considered over us. As proud as I am of the effort made by OSU when they won the Super Six does a 3 day tournament make a champion or how you finish in the regular season? Kessler was a one and done, no significant long term impact. RJ left thinking he was all that and would play right away in the NHL and it didn't happen. It was actually a good thing he left when he did as resentment was brewing as Markell turned and looked the other way too often with RJ on things other guys were getting disciplined for. Fifteen years and never could he even place in the top five of the conference 3 years in a row. Everyone has an occasional "off year" but Markell was mediocre compared to expectations to be able to do as well as Michigan or Michigan State and always have a good chance at the conference title and making the NCAA's year after year.

I get it - the university wants the consistent performance expected of a Big Ten hockey school. If you look at what I was replying to you'll see that I was refuting that he never developed talent or produced results. It's simply not true - there were some good and some bad years.

Consistency comes from a three major areas.
1.) Ability to reload with good talent every year
2.) Ability get your recruits to play to their best potential
3.) Ability to develop, implement, and get players to buy into a successful system

1.) Talent - a few things here. First, OSU simply cannot compete for depth of talent with the other BT schools. I'm talking about the 3rd, 4th, and 5th line guys. The other 4 schools sit in talent-rich localities and can attract players at a cheaper price than OSU can. Red and Don could probably compete with 10 scholarships because of the quality in-state depth players they attract. Second, the musical assistant coach jobs at OSU over the last 4 years had to have played havoc in the recruiting arena. Some of that turnover was due to the cloud of impending doom the AD cast over JM. I'd run at the first opportunity too if I suspected I had 1 or 2 years left at best. Third, and this speaks to OSU vs. non-BT hockey powers, OSU cannot cut players and take away their money - OSU and BT rules. Other schools over-recruit and cut those who don't pan out - OSU cuts them and loses that money until they leave school (Nick Fillion anyone?).

2.) Development - This was probably JM's soft spot. If you can't fill your roster with talented players when they step onto campus (above), you need to create good players from your bottom lines and underclassmen. This did not seem to be a strength of the OSU staff under JM and certainly hurt the ability to compete every year. Also, when you go through the injury bug as OSU did over a few of the last years, you need other players to step up and fill shoes. This didn't seem to happen very often.

3.) Systems - well OSU used to have a style and a system. It was based on hard-nosed defensive hockey and strong special teams (especially penalty killing). It feels like in an effort to step up the talent level, OSU changed the type of player they recruited. OSU lost it's identity and moved from the JB Bittner, Rod Pelley, Nate Guenin type of player to the world of Tom Fritsche, Cory Elkins, and John Albert - talented players for sure, but certainly not the style OSU had success with in the past. These players either would not buy into the system or the new system needed to evolve faster than it was.

Was it time to move on - probably. A new coach may be able to solidify #2 and #3 above and create success. However, I think we all agree that if OSU wants to contend with the other hockey schools EVERY YEAR they probably need to do more than just make a coaching change. They need to commit to complete with other schools on a number of levels.

Sterling Cooper
03-17-2010, 10:45 PM
Good luck getting to the moon without Huntsville. Besides, we're talking about facts, and ... tOSU still hasn't beaten UAH on the D-I level.

Oh, sorry ... you'd rather craft ad hominem attacks when it suits you.

GFM

Hillbilly, please. Yes, the federal government put the space center in Huntsville. It was a piece of federal pork thrown your way from Washington. You had cheap land, and the government decided that's the place we would re-relocate all our Kraut rocket scientists. It's not like you mouthbreathing 'necks actually had invented and developed some home grown "rocket industry." Even if you had, you'd of used it to make those moonshine runnin' Fords a little bit faster to outrun those durned revenuers. Washington could have designated some *****box town in Georgia or Vermont or Nevada or Idaho just the same and it wouldn't have impeded the race to the moon one single bit.

Only a mouthbreathin' bama neck would be clinging to a fifty year old piece of federal pork as justification that they're...well...not mouthbreathin' necks.

IrishHockeyFan
03-17-2010, 10:59 PM
Good luck getting to the moon without Huntsville. Besides, we're talking about facts, and ... tOSU still hasn't beaten UAH on the D-I level.

Oh, sorry ... you'd rather craft ad hominem attacks when it suits you.

GFM

Five bucks says he had to look up ad hominem. No wait, five bucks says he's too stupid to use a dictionary. Now if everyone would stop quoting him.

gfmorris
03-17-2010, 11:01 PM
Five bucks says he had to look up ad hominem. No wait, five bucks says he's too stupid to use a dictionary. Now if everyone would stop quoting him.

This is, in and of itself, ad hominem. ;)

Be the change you wish to see,
GFM

Sterling Cooper
03-17-2010, 11:04 PM
Five bucks says he had to look up ad hominem. No wait, five bucks says he's too stupid to use a dictionary. Now if everyone would stop quoting him.

C'mon. If this is what it takes to make an Alabami...Alabamican...Alabamamanian...Alabaman to actually use a dictionary and learn a new word, we should be encouraging the young lad....not taunting him back up into the short bus.

Sterling Cooper
03-17-2010, 11:08 PM
Alabama...MAN! That's the word I was searching for.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-570997817440305842#

MUhawks628
03-17-2010, 11:20 PM
You know... Mr. Mad Men is kinda growing on me. The level of forum dbaggery exhibited in this thread is sought by many and achieved by few. My hat off to you sir, it has been anything but dull. :cool: