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Slap Shot
03-16-2010, 11:47 AM
Frattin isn't evil and doesn't deserve more than a 1 gamer imho, but the attempts to rationalize the contact away as something less than what it was are highly comical.

Conversely if the hit on Zajac is indeed suspension worthy, contact the WCHA instead of using it as a really poor reason to excuse Frattin.

SJHovey
03-16-2010, 11:52 AM
I don't understand why everyone thinks we're cheap. We're just frugal. There is a difference.

wasmania
03-16-2010, 11:57 AM
If you are saying that looking at the third photo posted on Schlossman's blog (which you can find from the CHN website) where Wehr looks like he is about to be decapitated by Frattin that you can't find evidence of a head shot sufficient to reasonably cause a concussion, then you never will.

Yes that photo does appear that there was head contact. And note that I did not say their was not contact, nor am I defending Frattin. Just thought it was inconclusive. I havent been cynical or embellishing or namecalling. I would prefer to get through all the irrelevant emotion and look at what can be concluded to be fact. Can you do that as well?

skiumah2
03-16-2010, 11:59 AM
Im not saying he shouldnt get some judgment against him, but I do note that noone on this board can say conclusively from the posted photos exactly what happened. Your logic is fallacious, as a concussion could have happened due to a number of factors. We also havent seen any reporting quoting doctors that he got a concussion, again you are very specific about results without corroboration. Correct me if i am wrong and post the link.
How exactly does one receive a concussion without any contact to the head? If there are circumstances where this could happen, I am actually curious to what they would be. I seriously do not know how anyone could receive a concussion if the head receives no trauma.

It really is a moot point though, contact to the head was made, visciously in fact. Again, what in the video are some of you not seeing?

I'm sorry I don't have a link proving that he sustained a concussion. If you don't believe me, I suggest you seek the proof yourself because my interest in proving myself to you is too low to motivate me to search for a link to this.

My main point is how any of you can defend Frattin's actions anyway. Even if you can prove to me that head contact wasn't made (which you can't), none of you can prove to anyone that the action he took was necessary in the course of a hockey game. Skating full speed and leaving your feet to check someone without the puck as hard as you can is done for the soul purpose of trying to injure. I would have felt much better if Frattin showed any humility in his post game comments, or expressed any concern for Wehrs' well being. However, he basically stated he did it to fire up his team. I'll agree, it worked, but it showed me that Frattin succeeded in what he set out to do. Take a Gopher out of the game via injury. For that, his previous reputation means nothing, and I view him in the same light as Paukovich, Marvin, or any other goon who looks to injure someone on the ice. His actions simply cannot be defended.

Sloe Gin
03-16-2010, 12:02 PM
I'm gonna make a declaration and then you all can shut up and go back to being retards in the real world.

The hit was dangerous and deserved a suspension. It was NOT as bad as the Marvin hit on Chay and if this was a...UAA player or Michigan Tech player making this hit, there may not have been a suspension and certainly wouldn't be a thread declaring how cheap that player is. It's only because most of you either have a deep hatred of the Sioux program or you're a moronic St. Cloud fan that thinks Aaron Marvin is some sort of saint that this thread even exists in the first place. I wish Wehrs a speedy recovery and hope he can continue his hockey career. I condemn Frattin and hope he doesn't do something this dangerous again. But I'm not going to sit here and say he deserves the same punishment as Marvin. Because he doesn't. Most of you are screaming for his head because you hate the Sioux. And if you say that's not true, take a step back and make sure. There's a few posters on this board that get it, but the rest of you are idiots. Especially St. Cloud fans. This isn't your fight. This is between Minnesota fans and North Dakota fans. Minnesota fans for the most part are actually being reasonable in this. But you, St. Cloud fans, you are being stupid. Grow the *k up you morons. :mad:

That's it. Good day. :mad:

wasmania
03-16-2010, 12:04 PM
Frattin isn't evil and doesn't deserve more than a 1 gamer imho, but the attempts to rationalize the contact away as something less than what it was are highly comical.

Conversely if the hit on Zajac is indeed suspension worthy, contact the WCHA instead of using it as a really poor reason to excuse Frattin.

And to the rest of the whining public out there, Being guilty of complaining about Marvin doesnt NOT obligate one to accept Frattin's crime as equally severe. It is what is, as the Slapper suggests.

wasmania
03-16-2010, 12:14 PM
How exactly does one receive a concussion without any contact to the head? If there are circumstances where this could happen, I am actually curious to what they would be. I seriously do not know how anyone could receive a concussion if the head receives no trauma.

It really is a moot point though, contact to the head was made, visciously in fact. Again, what in the video are some of you not seeing?

I'm sorry I don't have a link proving that he sustained a concussion. If you don't believe me, I suggest you seek the proof yourself because my interest in proving myself to you is too low to motivate me to search for a link to this.

My main point is how any of you can defend Frattin's actions anyway. Even if you can prove to me that head contact wasn't made (which you can't), none of you can prove to anyone that the action he took was necessary in the course of a hockey game. Skating full speed and leaving your feet to check someone without the puck as hard as you can is done for the soul purpose of trying to injure. I would have felt much better if Frattin showed any humility in his post game comments, or expressed any concern for Wehrs' well being. However, he basically stated he did it to fire up his team. I'll agree, it worked, but it showed me that Frattin succeeded in what he set out to do. Take a Gopher out of the game via injury. For that, his previous reputation means nothing, and I view him in the same light as Paukovich, Marvin, or any other goon who looks to injure someone on the ice. His actions simply cannot be defended.

Not defending him - just trying to have a discussion sans histrionics

MN Pond Hockey
03-16-2010, 12:32 PM
Frattin deserves the one game suspension. People leave their feet and there is contact to the head during most games, but it never gets noticed unless the ref actually sees it or the player receiving the hit gets hurt. The reason Frattin gets the suspension is because of the severity and end result of the hit. Wehrs can't get up and doesn't return to the game. If Wehrs was to bounce right up after that hit then this ends up probably being 2 minutes or not such a big deal.

skiumah2
03-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Frattin deserves the one game suspension. People leave their feet and there is contact to the head during most games, but it never gets noticed unless the ref actually sees it or the player receiving the hit gets hurt. The reason Frattin gets the suspension is because of the severity and end result of the hit. Weirs can't get up and doesn't return to the game. If Weirs was to bounce right up after that hit then this ends up probably being 2 minutes or not such a big deal.
All things being equal, if Wehrs would have got up from that hit, and the refs issued an even smaller penalty, then they would have f'ed it up even more than they did. Wehrs' injury was a result of the severity, not the cause.

wasmania
03-16-2010, 12:44 PM
Frattin deserves the one game suspension. People leave their feet and there is contact to the head during most games, but it never gets noticed unless the ref actually sees it or the player receiving the hit gets hurt. The reason Frattin gets the suspension is because of the severity and end result of the hit. Weirs can't get up and doesn't return to the game. If Weirs was to bounce right up after that hit then this ends up probably being 2 minutes or not such a big deal.

Agreed. Nicely done. And from a gopher fan to boot.:)

wasmania
03-16-2010, 12:47 PM
All things being equal, if Wehrs would have got up from that hit, and the refs issued an even smaller penalty, then they would have f'ed it up even more than they did. Wehrs' injury was a result of the severity, not the cause.

No offense, but what are you trying to say here? Not the cause of what?

lord k
03-16-2010, 12:55 PM
I am not quite sure why everyone is hating on Frattin for his comments that he was trying to fire up his team with a big hit? Hitting someone as hard as you can is legal and is something many players try to do. If he wouldn't have left his feet there wouldn't have even been a penalty. He left his feet which is illegal and he got the suspension. But hitting someone hard is not a penalty.

UND is a very physical team year in and year out. This years team is one of the most physical they have had in recent years. Brad Malone had 10 hits in the 1st period alone on sunday. Most players don't even get 10 shifts a period. Forechecking, hitting, and causing turnovers in the offensive zone is their whole gameplan and they are very good at it. This is why teams have such a hard time trying to break the puck out against UND this year. By the third period those defenseman that have to go back and retrieve the puck have already mentally lost the battle.

In no way am I glad a player suffered a concusion but there is a very physical side to the game of hockey. It's not all just fast skating, pretty passes and goal scoring.

2006 Champs
03-16-2010, 01:15 PM
How exactly does one receive a concussion without any contact to the head?

Concussive trauma occurs from the brain impacting the inner region of the skull. A body moving forward at a rate of speed and suddenly restrained or caused to move opposite prior velocity will cause the brain to impact the skull regardless of how the body is stopped.

If you are suddenly restrained at your chest, your head continues forward until the muscles in your neck/back/shoulders react to stop. Your brain inside your skull has no such muscle or restraint. So even if your head is never "contacted", the rest of your body affects it's travel.

SIOUX4EVER
03-16-2010, 01:17 PM
there is a very physical side to the game of hockey. It's not all just fast skating, pretty passes and goal scoring.

So UMTC played absolutely no hockey this season? ;)

state of hockey
03-16-2010, 01:17 PM
If Wehrs got up right away the refs may have only given a 2 minute charge, this is true. But that doesn't make it right. Reffing 101, do not officiate off of end result. Only the action.

All in all, what should have happened did. You can argue him being out for the game, but whatever. There was no horrible injustice here.

johnnypohlfan
03-16-2010, 01:24 PM
So UMTC played absolutely no hockey this season? ;)

Most of us diehard Gopher fans aren't too proud to say that aside from a few games throughout the year, no they did not. :o

SoCalSiouxFan
03-16-2010, 01:25 PM
I am not quite sure why everyone is hating on Frattin for his comments that he was trying to fire up his team with a big hit? Hitting someone as hard as you can is legal and is something many players try to do. If he wouldn't have left his feet there wouldn't have even been a penalty. He left his feet which is illegal and he got the suspension. But hitting someone hard is not a penalty.

UND is a very physical team year in and year out. This years team is one of the most physical they have had in recent years. Brad Malone had 10 hits in the 1st period alone on sunday. Most players don't even get 10 shifts a period. Forechecking, hitting, and causing turnovers in the offensive zone is their whole gameplan and they are very good at it. This is why teams have such a hard time trying to break the puck out against UND this year. By the third period those defenseman that have to go back and retrieve the puck have already mentally lost the battle.

In no way am I glad a player suffered a concusion but there is a very physical side to the game of hockey. It's not all just fast skating, pretty passes and goal scoring.

Nice analysis of the situation but you may have erred when you stated he left his feet. From still photos of the incident Frattin was moving very fast and neither player appeared to have left their feet until after the initial hit was made.

http://siouxyeahyeahforever.blogspot.com/2010/03/frattin-suspended-for-hit.html

So it appears that Frattin may have been penalized and suspended for a legal hit. What next give out penalties for skating too fast?

wasmania
03-16-2010, 01:33 PM
So it appears that Frattin may have been penalized and suspended for a legal hit. What next give out penalties for skating too fast?

Socal - please dont continue to argue legality, it was at least an obvious charge and a reasonable person could argue for more. Clearly any homerism on this by us siouxfans is just adding fuel to the fire.

ScoobyDoo
03-16-2010, 01:41 PM
Nice analysis of the situation but you may have erred when you stated he left his feet. From still photos of the incident Frattin was moving very fast and neither player appeared to have left their feet until after the initial hit was made.

http://siouxyeahyeahforever.blogspot.com/2010/03/frattin-suspended-for-hit.html

So it appears that Frattin may have been penalized and suspended for a legal hit. What next give out penalties for skating too fast?

Seek help. Soon.

MN Pond Hockey
03-16-2010, 01:46 PM
Nice analysis of the situation but you may have erred when you stated he left his feet. From still photos of the incident Frattin was moving very fast and neither player appeared to have left their feet until after the initial hit was made.

http://siouxyeahyeahforever.blogspot.com/2010/03/frattin-suspended-for-hit.html

So it appears that Frattin may have been penalized and suspended for a legal hit. What next give out penalties for skating too fast?

Did you get him out of his legal problems to? Quit being such a homer.