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unofan
03-24-2010, 12:08 PM
The Cornell fans defensiveness is noted.

Not a Cornell fan, and have no bone to pick in this fight. Your constant whining about the officiating sucks. Period.


Cornell's record against skill / speed teams is not good and that supports the point several have made which is the style of play is successful in the ECAC because the refs don't call what they should and hurts the league overall. 6500 in Albany versus full houses in Boston and the WCHA.

Seriously? You really are a nutjob if you think officiating is why attendance in the ECAC's is lower than WCHA/HEA.

Got 6, Want More
03-24-2010, 01:49 PM
Not a Cornell fan, and have no bone to pick in this fight. Your constant whining about the officiating sucks. Period.

No one forces you to read this thread. There are a whole lot of fans that feel the same way I do. I really find it ironic that the two groups of fans follow the two teams with the coaches most notorious for ref bashing - Gaudet and Schafer. Ted Donato makes honorable mention.

Where you there Ben? Seriously? I have never been so poorly entertained at a college hockey tournement ever. It was a giant snoozefest.


Seriously? You really are a nutjob if you think officiating is why attendance in the ECAC's is lower than WCHA/HEA.

That is not what I said. What I said it that the refs unwillingness is chasing away fans that do attend loyally. How is that a good thing for the league? I never said the better team didn't win on Saturday...both of the better teams did win. The fact of the matter is there were some bad hits that weren't called and should have been to protect the players and there were a ton of obstruction calls that hurt the quality of hockey and also should have been called. But, hey, you want to defend the ECAC refs like Dave Hanson that watched Casey Parenteau get literally pile-driven into the boards from behind and left laying motionless on the ice with a concussion and no call in the consolation game in 2007 against Dartmouth, good on ya! Maybe next time it will be one of the stars of the league or your team.

Finally, if this was only about the team I follow, I wouldn't be going there. We are a great team 5 on 5, a dangerous team on the PK and our PP, well, not so much!

DisplacedCornellian
03-24-2010, 02:17 PM
Fine, let's look at your games against Princeton this year. In the league games shots were essentially even and penalties were even in one game and more to Cornell in the other game. However, with non-ECAC refs in Estero, Princeton heavily outshot Cornell and Cornell took about twice as many penalties. There is no way to argue Princeton is a deeper team.

Your point is what, exactly? That in one OOC game, Cornell took three more penalties and put up 10 fewer shots than another team, therefore the only reason Cornell has success is because the refs in the ECAC don't call anything? Ooooook.




As for doing damage in the NCAA's, teams have to make it before they can win.
Ahh, so the other ECAC teams would do better in the tourney than Cornell if only they were good enough to get in. Ok.



Finally, I disagree that Cornell has anything to complain about with regards to depth and talent. How many draft picks have you had over the past five seasons (some of them quite high). It may not be a factory like BC, DU, but it is certainly in the elite in the NCAA in terms of attracting blue chip talent.

Are you telling me that Cornell has as much talent as the teams who have won the Championship over the past few years? Really? You're out of your gourd. Cornell may get its share of good recruits, but they certainly do not have the talent, top to bottom, that BU, BC, NoDak, Minny, etc. have had.


And I repeat, I never said the Cornell recipe is not successful winning games, but I think it is unsuccessful at winning fans

Oh yeah. If there is a team in the ECAC that lacks fans, it's Cornell. :rolleyes:




I really find it ironic that the two groups of fans follow the two teams with the coaches most notorious for ref bashing - Gaudet and Schafer. Ted Donato makes honorable mention.


What does this have to do with ANYTHING? I find it ironic that a fan (yourself) who follow such a classy coach (Marsh), is such a whiny jerk.

GreatLakerMohawk
03-24-2010, 02:29 PM
I just wanted to say these discussions are more entertaining than the "GET TEH ECACS OUT OF ALBANY!" ones.

FlagDUDE08
03-24-2010, 02:33 PM
I highly regret that I originally posted in this thread to give information, but now find entertainment value in the message diarrhea provided.

unofan
03-24-2010, 02:34 PM
But, hey, you want to defend the ECAC refs like Dave Hanson that watched Casey Parenteau get literally pile-driven into the boards from behind and left laying motionless on the ice with a concussion and no call in the consolation game in 2007 against Dartmouth, good on ya! Maybe next time it will be one of the stars of the league or your team.

Jesus H. Christ, you remember specific calls/non-calls from a meaningless game 3 years ago? Obsess much?

Now I understand why courts of law don't allow specific instances to be used to impeach a witness's character. Because you'll get the idiot savant pulling out every freaking instance where something might have been handled imperfectly and make even the best expert look like a schmuck.

Thanks for illustrating the point better than my evidence professor ever could.

Got 6, Want More
03-24-2010, 04:10 PM
Jesus H. Christ, you remember specific calls/non-calls from a meaningless game 3 years ago? Obsess much?

Now I understand why courts of law don't allow specific instances to be used to impeach a witness's character. Because you'll get the idiot savant pulling out every freaking instance where something might have been handled imperfectly and make even the best expert look like a schmuck.

Thanks for illustrating the point better than my evidence professor ever could.

Meaningless game? The winner of that game got an NCAA bid, the loser went home.

I also remember specific plays that resulted in broken necks and spines by great players, but I can understand it is better for everyone if the refs don't enforce the rules there for the protection of the players or the free flow of the game.

Why would any league member recruit speed and skill? Let's just recruit 6'6" lumberjacks that can hold, clutch, grab and drive the opponents through the boards head first.

Got 6, Want More
03-24-2010, 04:12 PM
I just wanted to say these discussions are more entertaining than the "GET TEH ECACS OUT OF ALBANY!" ones.

Too late, that was another example of outstanding management by the league.

DarthBruno
03-24-2010, 04:15 PM
In the Brown - SLU Con-so-ugly game, Patry kept looking up at the clock instead of the line and missed offsides call after call.

I bet they were all BROWN offsides, too! That must be why we beat SLU 3-0 - all those uncalled offsides. Yup.

Got 6, Want More
03-24-2010, 04:53 PM
Your point is what, exactly? That in one OOC game, Cornell took three more penalties and put up 10 fewer shots than another team, therefore the only reason Cornell has success is because the refs in the ECAC don't call anything? Ooooook..

Okay, how do you explain Cornell winning twice against Princeton in in-conference games, but losing and getting outshot and more penalties in the NC game where there were refs from other leagues? After losing to Colorado College which did not have a good season? How do you explain it?



Ahh, so the other ECAC teams would do better in the tourney than Cornell if only they were good enough to get in. Ok. .

I didn't say that, but possibly yes! SLU for one has had a higher winning percentage in NC games in several recent seasons than they have had in league. I recall one game last season where Cornell took 37 PIM and lost 8-1 to a speed team. Even with three Hobey candidates in goal in the last decade, I don't recall Cornell's system taking them very deep in the NCAA's.





Are you telling me that Cornell has as much talent as the teams who have won the Championship over the past few years? Really? You're out of your gourd. Cornell may get its share of good recruits, but they certainly do not have the talent, top to bottom, that BU, BC, NoDak, Minny, etc. have had. .

No, I didn't say that either, but I do believe they have more talent and depth than Bemidji State.



Oh yeah. If there is a team in the ECAC that lacks fans, it's Cornell. :rolleyes: .

Yeah, Cornell brings its fans every year which gives us attendance of about 2000. To make it a fun environment, we need to bring in some casual fans or fans from schools not playing in the tourney. That is the point that I would hope you would understand. If the quality of the hockey sucks which it did in general all weekend, how is the league going to succeed?

If you think the officiating was good and that the level of obstruction in the games (much of it uncalled) is not an issue affecting the quality of entertainment as well as, quite possibly, the success of ECAC teams outside of the league, then we should agree to disagree. There is no shortage of posters on this board that have been critical of the level of consistency and the overall quality of officiating in the league. That's a fact. Now go ahead and resume your ad hominem attacks and name calling. That is really helpful. I can tell you that the majority of coaches in the ECAC are highly critical of both the quality of officiating in the ECAC but also how officiating is administered. It goes beyond that. I sat in the lobby of the Albany Marriott last year in the ECAC tourney and listened to someone who makes their living in pro hockey (not in any way related to any ECAC team) and who is a former player and a friend of Paul Stewart absolutely shred him for the quality of officiating in Albany last year. By the time he got to his 20th point, Stewart was actually looking deflated. This year was worse than last year.

If you are happy and entertained, great. Enjoy playing your championship game in front of 4856 fans (or 12 which will probably be peak attendance at A. C.) which was the 2009 Championship game minus one as I'd rather jam a carrott peeler up my nose and inhale salt than watch another game like either game on Saturday this past weekend.







What does this have to do with ANYTHING? I find it ironic that a fan (yourself) who follow such a classy coach (Marsh), is such a whiny jerk.

Got 6, Want More
03-24-2010, 05:07 PM
I bet they were all BROWN offsides, too! That must be why we beat SLU 3-0 - all those uncalled offsides. Yup.

No Brown won because they outplayed us and we didn't show up.

DisplacedCornellian
03-24-2010, 09:33 PM
Okay, how do you explain Cornell winning twice against Princeton in in-conference games, but losing and getting outshot and more penalties in the NC game where there were refs from other leagues? After losing to Colorado College which did not have a good season? How do you explain it?


Umm, they didn't beat Princeton twice in conference play. They split. But don't let facts get in your way, and feel free to change up your argument when you get called on it, as you have done so far.

You know, there are going to be times when Cornell takes more penalties than the other team. It happens, even in ECAC play. :eek: Your reference to 8-1 drubbing SLU threw the Red last season points that out. But you're right, without those ECAC refs, Cornell would be the doormat of NCAA hockey.

Osorojo
03-24-2010, 10:10 PM
I watched the games in Estero. Cornell played five periods of dreadful (and losing) hockey. Good or bad refereeing had nothing to do with their losses.
There is a huge difference between bad refereeing and biased refereeing. Some of these posts allude to biased refereeing. That's a pretty serious charge to make without quite a bit of objective evidence.
Yapping about bad officiating is one of the three defining characteristics of a poor looser.