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hockeyenthusiast
03-08-2010, 06:51 PM
Red Cloud,

You mentioned in the Brown thread that Brown players were taunting little kids this weekend. When did it happen and who was it? just wondering

knsmith
03-08-2010, 07:13 PM
Since you are comparing players under different coaches, who have different systems, then the players performance is tough to evaluate purely from a statistical perspective. For example, Lange might have faired better in a system with more emphasis on team D.

You aren't intruding, but I still disagree with you. Those guys you listed off (Croxton, MacDonald, Eizenman) were our last really strong recruits and that is what I meant by the secondary effects of the local luck we had. Those guys signed when we had Cavosie and Murley and really made a run at things; once the effect of those guys left, Fridgen struggled badly in recruiting.

I'm not talking about how his players performed under either coach, I'm talking about the fact that he had us go years without an NHL draftee on our roster and that we were consistently the last team to be signing players to both start and fill our recruiting classes. It's not that it isn't possible to be successful signing guys late, but all the objective measures we have (rankings, NHL draft status, time of signing) indicate that Fridgen was in fact getting destroyed recruiting. This is nothing against the players he managed to get; like all recruiting classes at all schools, including those of Appert, many of the players exceeded expectations through hard work and perseverance, while others fell short of their potential. But the fact remains that objectively Fridgen's last couple recruiting classes were among the weakest RPI has ever seen and made any kind of turnaround, whether with Fridgen or another coach, a four or five year project.

I am just saying all this in defense of Appert and the criticisms of him in this thread. Yes, we have basically the same record under Appert as we did under Fridgen's last few years. But to make any kind of intelligent evaluation of how Appert has done, you need to consider where we are going and not just where we have been.

hockeymascot
03-08-2010, 07:56 PM
You seem to put a lot of stock into NHL draftees and early commits! Well, some make it, and some don't, while some early signees develop, and some don't.

Helfrich was late and not a draft choice? Who drafted Pothier?

Just because you have early signees and draft choices doesn't neccessarily equate to success (see this year's Clarkson team). How many draft choices did Brown have?

knsmith
03-08-2010, 08:08 PM
You seem to put a lot of stock into NHL draftees and early commits! Well, some make it, and some don't, while some early signees develop, and some don't.

Helfrich was late and not a draft choice? Who drafted Pothier?

Just because you have early signees and draft choices doesn't neccessarily equate to success (see this year's Clarkson team). How many draft choices did Brown have?

Here we go again, ugh. I am not saying draft choices are the be-all, end-all; they are one of the few objective measures that we have available to us that any non-dense person would agree TENDS to indicate a higher level of player.

crossbar
03-08-2010, 08:13 PM
Red Cloud,
Wins and losses are black and white. There's no denying that. Ties could be gray, I guess. I am not posting here because of what happened this past weekend. I refrained from posting all season, so as to post on the overall season. In my opinion I don't think that being 18-17-2 is what Dr. Jackson had in mind after 4 years. I also do not believe that she planned on a drop in attendence. I have said I do not want SA fired, but my why should the school retain him? I think thats a fair question. One that is probably going to be looked at. And yes, I am aware of the recruits that have stated their intention to attend RPI. I am a sports fan, and a former college athlete(not hockey). Like it or not, it's wins that allow coaches to stay where they are. The question is, have there been enough in the last 4 years? I have seen a change for the better in the level of talent, but in the real sports world, that raised talent level has to produce W's. Now, if the talent level has improved, how come the win total is still barely higher than the loss total? I don't want to hear about how much better than the team did this year as compared to last either. We are one of 5 schools that give grant in aid to players, yet finish behind 4 teams that do not. Red Cloud, your pity I do not need or want. If I can't bring to this forum, what I think may be a valid point of contention, then I pity us all.

hockeymascot
03-08-2010, 08:34 PM
Here we go again, ugh. I am not saying draft choices are the be-all, end-all; they are one of the few objective measures that we have available to us that any non-dense person would agree TENDS to indicate a higher level of player.

Name-calling works! Speaking of dense, you have pretty much substantiated your argument as just that since you are now qualifying your original comments.

rvd5star69
03-08-2010, 08:37 PM
Why is it that anything you have to say ends up being.....just plain stupid?
Sorry for intruding on your turf RC but....

haha stupid

i know hockey i coached hockey and played hockey and have watched thousands of games

rvd5star69
03-08-2010, 08:42 PM
I'm sure that the expectations of the powers that be at RPI were and are expecting more. They have made a substantial investment in the program. .500 or one game over is probably not what they thought they were going to get. I like SA, but it's time to check the whole body of work. Out of 152 games, the boys from Troy have won 49 times, less than 1/3 of the time. Sure the win total jumped this year, but it couldn't get much lower, could it? This topic was bandied about on this site last year, and the consensus was, in my opinion, Albany or bust. Well, we're still on the wrong side of the river, and a meteoric rise to mediocrity should not be enough to maintain this job. I realize that SA has supposedly brought in studs, but what's happening when they get here? ND football had supposedly high rated recruiting classes, and well, we know what happened there. Is this much different?


well said crossbar you play to win the game not for a .500 record with the rpi;s 42 ranked strength of scheudule.

rvd5star69
03-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Where was Helfrich this weekend? Was he hurt?

helfrich ever since he got hurt hasnt been the same....

crossbar
03-08-2010, 09:34 PM
It appears that Helfrich has lost his spot in the line-up. A healthy scratch often in the second half, at least that's the word.

FlagDUDE08
03-08-2010, 09:55 PM
Chase Polacek isn't a draft pick either. Christian Jensen was. It's hit or miss.

Tyler was slumping in his sophomore year as well. He just hasn't picked up his game, and so he's a healthy scratch. I don't know if it's due to injury.

RVD, strength of schedule, although you can control some of it, there is a bit of luck involved. Boston University, though national champions last year, wasn't all that strong this year, and that messed us. The same with UNH, even though they're at the top of Hockey East, they didn't do too well at OOC. Also Michigan. We beat all three of them.

As for the taunted children, it had to have been the ones in section 33.

Red Cloud
03-09-2010, 12:04 AM
Red Cloud,

You mentioned in the Brown thread that Brown players were taunting little kids this weekend. When did it happen and who was it? just wondering

Happened after the game was over, and it was captain Aaron Volpatti, setting a fine example for the rest of his team, and Harry Zolnierczyk, which I suppose is a step up from filming them having sex, so good on him for showing evolution I guess.

Red Cloud
03-09-2010, 12:05 AM
I have said I do not want SA fired, but my why should the school retain him? I think thats a fair question.

Jesus Christ, *******, how many times do I have to answer this question?

jmhusker
03-09-2010, 12:27 AM
Wow. 7 pages of mostly whining. Where's the calm that the thread title promised?

The product was better this year but the boys need to learn that talent alone will not win games. Next year we will be better. I can live with that.

Time to take down the back yard rink, prepare for spring, and hit the links.

EngineEar
03-09-2010, 12:35 AM
That's 2... anyone else have tickets for the "Fire Appert" bandwagon?

Wasn't this just a thread boasting that they believe in Seth Appert?! Talk about fair weather friends.

rjohntute
03-09-2010, 01:08 AM
I've noticed that Helfrich has gotten worse as the seasons go by. Does anyone have an idea as to why that is? I think Chase still has a pretty good shot at being in the Hobey top 3. Definitely a finalist.

Ralph Baer
03-09-2010, 01:08 AM
Today is 9 March 2010. There are 213 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 8 October for the start of next season.

FlagDUDE08
03-09-2010, 06:25 AM
Wasn't this just a thread boasting that they believe in Seth Appert?! Talk about fair weather friends.

Yes, and the phrase to the left of this post still stands. However, there are some weirdos that still want him gone just because 8 out of 12 teams don't make it to Albany and we happened to be one of them. I'm just taking their mugshots, shutting the latch, and saying "Good Riddance" as the bandwagon makes its way to either Schenectady or Potsdam.

Ralph Baer
03-09-2010, 07:01 AM
Yes, and the phrase to the left of this post still stands. However, there are some weirdos that still want him gone just because 8 out of 12 teams don't make it to Albany and we happened to be one of them. I'm just taking their mugshots, shutting the latch, and saying "Good Riddance" as the bandwagon makes its way to either Schenectady or Potsdam.

I don't know how many people who read USCHO also subscribe to the RPI Sports list, but IMHO this thread has been relatively sane compared to the recent goings on there.

Someone complained about Jerry D'Amigo a while back. This elicited a response from Jerry's mother. The posts have been going steadily downhill since then. I won't go into any detail or give my opinion because nothing will be served by similar posts here except to aggravate me further.

Ralph Baer
03-09-2010, 07:12 AM
RPI's power play finished at 39 for 213 or 18.3%. So Brandon Pirri made good on his promise of at least 15% (with a bit of help from Chase Polacek ;) ).