PDA

View Full Version : Geneseo Ice Knights Off - Season Thread (First off an apology)



Pages : [1] 2

SB in the 'Seo
02-21-2010, 01:54 PM
This thread can go the more traditional "off-season thread route", but first I need to say a few things.

After last night's game I went out to the bars in Geneseo. I was confronted by someone associated with Geneseo's hockey team (not going to give a name of course) and was told that some of the things that Josh Carey and I have said on the uscho.com message boards since the news of the sanctions were "disrespectful." I must emphasize that this confrontation was not aggressive or violent in anyway if anyone is starting to get that picture in their mind. The person who approached me was very calm and articulate about their feelings. I asked for an example of the "disrespectful" comments. I was told "just read what you wrote." When I pushed for an example they said "it may not have been you - but you agreed with stuff Josh said that was disrespectful." Again, no specific examples. After a few minutes of talking I smoothed things over and we had a nice conversation. It seems that my issues stem from maybe agreeing on things that I didn't necessarily agree with so I'm going to make my opinions on various GSU hockey issues crystal clear and offer a formal apology.

The Sanctions - I do not blame anyone associated with the Geneseo hockey for the sanctions. This includes players, coaches, training staff, athletic department admins, fans, pep band, etc. If there is anyone(s) to blame it is those in charge of marketing Geneseo. Norm posted a link a few weeks showing that Geneseo is considered one of the elite public institutions in this country. However, our name isn't that well known outside of NY. The fact that one of the best schools in the country isn't able to attract (non hockey playing) students from about 2 hours away shows that we need new hype men.

The players - At one point during the conversation phrase "you hate the players" was thrown at me. I actually kind of laughed it was so ridiculous then I was told "No, you just hate the Canadian players." I almost don't want to dignify that with a response, but I'll do it just to make sure everything is 100% clear. I do not hate any of Geneseo's hockey players. Whether they are Canadian, American, or Japanese they are all top notch student athletes. They did nothing wrong. My posts that referenced the Canadian players were only to inform the forum viewers who would be affected by the new rulings. I hope that all of the Canadian players return to Geneseo next year whether or not they are able to play hockey. I believe that the way they have played the last few weeks shows the true character of the guys. The way the team has bonded and played the last few weeks all I can say is has been a treat to watch. I can honestly say I have never been more pround of a team as I was of this year's Ice Knights and that includes the SUNYAC championship team my Freshman year.

I would also like to give a special shout out to the seniors. They have meant a lot to the program for the last 4 years and I wish them all the best in their future pursuits.

The Coaches - I know Schultz has taken some shots on the boards. I have probably thrown a few out there myself (I can't recall any, but maybe there were times I should have defended him when other people did). I do want to officially put it on the record that I think he is a good hockey coach and a good leader of young men. I am completely behind him leading the Ice Knights into the future. He is the right man for the job. As a side note, yesterday's timeout when Oswego was up 1-0 was probably the best timeout I've seen in a college hockey game. Not only the timing of it, but obviously whatever adjustments were made worked as Geneseo went on to score 3 unanswered. As a team no one cares more about the success of Geneseo hockey than Chris Schultz and Kris Heeres.

Radio - Just a quick shout out to this years radio team. Brandon and Kelly. Great job!

My role - It seems this whole confrontation came from a misunderstanding of my role. First off, for those who don't know my name is Steve Bennett and I was Geneseo's color commentator last year. Josh did the PBP. During the conversation I was told I shouldn't be "saying those things because the guys consider you a part of the team." I did a double take. I didn't think that was my role now or ever, but the person who approached me was a little surprised I didn't think of myself as part of the team. Honestly, I'm happy I'm thought of this way by the Ice Knights but I don't know if that's really the healthiest relationship. When I was covering the team I had to be as neutral as possible to accurately report for the listeners. Now that I don't have that association with the team I can be a bit more of a biased fan, but that's not really my nature. I'm just a call 'em as I see 'em kind of guy. I'll take it into consideration though and next year possibly post as "a part of the team," but no promises.

So I guess that was the essence of our disagreement. I don't think I made any posts that were disrespectful coming from a person "neutrally reporting of information," but if I really am considered "part of the team" - yeh I guess you wouldn't want your teammates making any comments about the sanctions at all.

So I do apologize to anyone involved in Geneseo hockey who was offended by anything I said. Anyone who knows me knows I would never want to thrown them under the bus.

(should I go hug Tiger Wood's Mom now?)

norm1909
02-21-2010, 03:15 PM
IMO, you have been a strong a positive voice for Geneseo, and I can't recall ANY posts from anyone on USCHO claiming the hockey team or even the athletic department was intentionally responsible for happened. In fact, it appears that even the NCAA believes what happened was unintentional, but nevertheless, they believe that while unintended, the programs constituted a de-facto athletic scholarship program. I cannot believe anyone doesn't feel sorry for the players, they did nothing more than partake in what was created (though not administered) as a legitimate financial aid package to make the school attractive and affordable to any Canadian student. The school self-imposed the sanctions to show definitively that it in no way intended to circumvent NCAA policies or create an uneven playing field and the NCAA agreed. You represented and continue to represent Geneseo in a positive light, stay proud and keep up the good work.

SB in the 'Seo
02-21-2010, 05:27 PM
IMO, you have been a strong a positive voice for Geneseo, and I can't recall ANY posts from anyone on USCHO claiming the hockey team or even the athletic department was intentionally responsible for happened. In fact, it appears that even the NCAA believes what happened was unintentional, but nevertheless, they believe that while unintended, the programs constituted a de-facto athletic scholarship program. I cannot believe anyone doesn't feel sorry for the players, they did nothing more than partake in what was created (though not administered) as a legitimate financial aid package to make the school attractive and affordable to any Canadian student. The school self-imposed the sanctions to show definitively that it in no way intended to circumvent NCAA policies or create an uneven playing field and the NCAA agreed. You represented and continue to represent Geneseo in a positive light, stay proud and keep up the good work.


Thank you, sir. :)

Who knows what's up. It was definitely one of the weirdest interactions of my life. When they threw the "You hate the players" I was like "OK where's Ashton Kutcher?"

When I was first approached by this person they said "Are you the guy chirping on the message boards?" and I'm like "nope" and then just brushed the person off because I was playing darts. The person kept saying things like "Yeh you have Geneseo color commentator 2008-2009 in your signature" and I said "OK that's me, but I didn't chirp." No examples were given were given so the case has little to no weight. They just said "I read the stuff for 3 hours yesterday and it got me mad."

Despite the weirdness of the encounter, I do want to emphasize that the person did approach me in a respectful non-aggressive manor. I'm not sure I understood their point, but it was presented well.

Essentially the negative feelings this person had towards myself (and Josh) were due to misintrepretations on their end. Either a misintrepretation of my role or a misinterpretations of what I meant. So the reason for the first post in this thread is just case any other people out there are misinterpretting those two things. Hopefully the first post cleared those two things up.

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
02-21-2010, 07:30 PM
Ok, so I would like to make a post on the "offseason" thread, which this thread is. (That's basically me saying I'm moving on to a different subject)

Next year should be interesting. Coach Schultz now has the team's performance over the last month+ to use as an example for the team to prove that they CAN be "that team". Look out. if they play even CLOSE to what they've done since the sanctioning was announced, they will likely contend for a SUNYAC regular season or playoff title! :eek:

I commend the Ice Knights for pulling it together in a time of extreme adversity.

norm1909
02-21-2010, 07:49 PM
...Next year should be interesting. Coach Schultz now has the team's performance over the last month+ to use as an example for the team to prove that they CAN be "that team". Look out. if they play ...

I commend the Ice Knights for pulling it together in a time of extreme adversity.

Who will/can afford to return?

Current Canadians:
Juniors:
Michael Forgione Forward
Trevor Elliott Forward
Daniel Sullivan Forward
Andrew Rygiel Forward
Allan Charbonneau Defense

Sophomores:
Jake Yard Defense
Jonathan Redlick Forward
David Arduin Forward
Stefan Decosse Forward
Clint Olson Forward

Freshman:
Ryan Bulach Forward
Colin de Jersey Defense
Adrian Rubeniuk - Goalie

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
02-21-2010, 08:03 PM
Who will/can afford to return?

Current Canadians:
Juniors:
Michael Forgione Forward
Trevor Elliott Forward
Daniel Sullivan Forward
Andrew Rygiel Forward
Allan Charbonneau Defense

Sophomores:
Jake Yard Defense
Jonathan Redlick Forward
David Arduin Forward
Stefan Decosse Forward
Clint Olson Forward

Freshman:
Ryan Bulach Forward
Colin de Jersey Defense
Adrian Rubeniuk - Goalie

I seem to recall it being stated that, as a result of the discussion behind closed doors with the NCAA, the aid in question was already gone before this year, and that the punishment was coming down this year because that's when they agreed on a punishment. If that understanding is correct, it would seem that anybody who is playing this year and isn't graduating should be eligible to play next year, because the have obviously elected to play without the grant. But maybe I'm wrong...

NUProf
02-21-2010, 08:08 PM
I seem to recall it being stated that, as a result of the discussion behind closed doors with the NCAA, the aid in question was already gone before this year, and that the punishment was coming down this year because that's when they agreed on a punishment. If that understanding is correct, it would seem that anybody who is playing this year and isn't graduating should be eligible to play next year, because the have obviously elected to play without the grant. But maybe I'm wrong...

I thought the "gone" referred to in that was "gone" as in spent. I think I read that the players would have the option of continuing on the grant and not playing, or giving up the grant and playing or picking a better aid package elsewhere and playing there

norm1909
02-21-2010, 08:14 PM
I seem to recall it being stated that, as a result of the discussion behind closed doors with the NCAA, the aid in question was already gone before this year, and that the punishment was coming down this year because that's when they agreed on a punishment. If that understanding is correct, it would seem that anybody who is playing this year and isn't graduating should be eligible to play next year, because the have obviously elected to play without the grant. But maybe I'm wrong...

Specifically: (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/3d8456804135aa54bbbabbd64a38ccb2/20100128+Geneseo+Public+Report.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=3d8456804135aa54bbbabbd64a38ccb2)


... [NOTE: The institution determined that, beginning with the 2010 spring semester, this penalty shall be applied by allowing student-athletes receiving the grants to choose either (a) to continue receiving the grant and withdraw from the team; or (b) to forego further funds from the grants and remain a part of the team.]

They are all "eligible", but my question is "Who will/can afford to return?" (with thought's of Hince in my mind).

aerogroup2
02-21-2010, 09:25 PM
Has anyone ever stated how much this grant was worth in US dollars?

SB in the 'Seo
02-21-2010, 09:31 PM
Coach Schultz had a quote in one of the articles that the current freshman are under compliance only the Sophomores and Juniors are really affected.

Kind of goes without saying, but I do not know any of the players financial situations to say for sure. I did talk to a few parents in the roundtable lounge and their sons were planning on returning and playing next year. Obviously, financial situations could change and they could not be back so I'll respect their privacy on money front and not mention any names.


Ok, so I would like to make a post on the "offseason" thread, which this thread is. (That's basically me saying I'm moving on to a different subject)

Next year should be interesting. Coach Schultz now has the team's performance over the last month+ to use as an example for the team to prove that they CAN be "that team". Look out. if they play even CLOSE to what they've done since the sanctioning was announced, they will likely contend for a SUNYAC regular season or playoff title!

I commend the Ice Knights for pulling it together in a time of extreme adversity.

I agree, certainly Geneseo will miss the seniors and of course any guys who don't return due to the money.

That said, they will be going into next year with a lot of momentum and returning talent. Specifically, the Rubenik/Gershon goalie platoon will be a pain for opposing teams.

It's kind of strange, but I think this situation was the shot in the arm the program needed. After 2 and 3/4 pretty so-so years things jumped up a level since the news of the sanctions broke.

norm1909
02-22-2010, 06:10 AM
I came across this: Allan Charbonneau in his own words (http://www.geneseo.edu/CMS/display.php?page=16711&dpt=ISS) :cool:

And this (http://www.geneseo.edu/CMS/display.php?page=11235&dpt=ISS) on Geneseo's Rankings :cool:

Scholarships (http://www.geneseo.edu/CMS/display.php?page=11185&dpt=ISS)

Most international students admitted in 2009-2010 received an International Student Scholarship. **International Students who participate in inter-collegiate (varsity) athletics are not eligible to receive scholarship support in accordance with NCAA and Geneseo guidlines.
Add freshman forward, Kaz Iwamoto from Tomakomai, Japan to the list of who might find it financially more beneficial to attend somewhere else. :(


Student FAQs (http://www.geneseo.edu/CMS/display.php?page=11449&dpt=ISS) (Some of these are "cute") :)

SB in the 'Seo
02-22-2010, 06:40 AM
I came across this: Allan Charbonneau in his own words


Good find. I thought Charbonneau played really well on Saturday. In the 5 games I've seen Erik Selleck play I've never him contained the way he was on Saturday. Seemed like Charbonneau separated him from the puck at least a dozen times.

ColdInRomney
02-22-2010, 09:04 AM
Before you guys get too far off track- congratulations on a great game Saturday night. Well done. We'll lick our wounds and hopefully use it as motivation to step it up.

PrezdeJohnson09
02-22-2010, 10:05 AM
Not that I really care to know or need to know who approached you but they definitely sound Canadian.

Americans don't use the word chirp too often.:cool:

AGPennypacker
02-22-2010, 11:14 AM
By my count, Geneseo finished 6-0-1 since the sanctions were officially announced and 7-0-1 in their final 8 games. They easily could have packed it in when they found out they were essentially playing for nothing other than pride. Good on them for that and koodos to Coach Schultz for finding a way to win through quite a bit of adversity.

I've said it before: Schultz has had the short end of the stick since he came to Geneseo. He took over a team that Coach Lammer's drove into the ground. Granted, Lammers won a SUNYAC Championship, but it was done with all of Hills' recruits. Lammers didn't recruit much while he was there and insulted the school by leaving after one year. Hindsight says Schutlz should have been given the coaching position after Hills left, but I can't fault Geneseo much for going with Lammers perhaps because he had more experience at the collegiate level.

Now, to boot, this Canadian grant program has, to some degree, embarassed the school and the athletic department. The fallout of this is most likely lost recruits and perhaps even the loss of some current players.

Congrats to the players and the coaches on finishing the season strong. Hopefull all those who can will come back and play next year and potential recruits will see that Geneseo has one of the better programs in D3.

ColdInRomney
02-22-2010, 11:43 AM
Americans don't use the word chirp too often.:cool:

Could have been an ornithologist? ;)

Josh Carey
02-23-2010, 01:30 AM
I've said it before: Schultz has had the short end of the stick since he came to Geneseo. He took over a team that Coach Lammer's drove into the ground. Granted, Lammers won a SUNYAC Championship, but it was done with all of Hills' recruits. Lammers didn't recruit much while he was there and insulted the school by leaving after one year. Hindsight says Schutlz should have been given the coaching position after Hills left, but I can't fault Geneseo much for going with Lammers perhaps because he had more experience at the collegiate level.

The rest of this post was spot on and I agree with it almost word for word. The quoted paragraph, however, is ridiculous. Sure, Lammers didn't bring in a huge recruiting class, but it did include Sebastian Panetta (57 points, 97 GP), Dan Brown (74 points, 98 GP), Phil Rose (38 Pts, 102 GP), and Jeff MacPhee (22 A, incredible d-man). Oh yeah, and Schultz had a year of Mitch Stephens, Mike MacDonald, and Steve Jordan to serve as a buffer. So yeah, that was definitely a team Lammers "drove into the ground."

Was Lammers leaving after a year an insult to the school? Absolutely. Did it make him a liar? Yes (I imagine I still have tape somewhere to verify this in an amusingly comedic fashion). Was it completely and totally understandable? Yes.

Jason Lammers is, without a doubt, the best coach in Geneseo's hockey history. He instilled a level of work ethic and confidence in the team that neither of the other two coaches I've seen at Geneseo come close to matching. When the team dropped the first game of the then best-of-three SUNYAC finals, Lammers sat confidently in a press conference nobody wanted to ask a question during and stated, simply "We'll see you on Sunday."

There is no doubt that Schultz can turn out fine young men from the hockey program. And for Geneseo that may be enough. But he could improve drastically on the psychological aspect of coaching, of motivation, and of saying (and believing) something with such conviction to inspire everybody else to believe it with the same conviction. Teams feed off their coach, and I can only imagine that these last few weeks, with all the pressure off, has made the entire team, coaching staff included, much more relaxed and focused. I think the 5-0-1 record in that stretch is something to dwell on as Geneseo heads into the offseason. It may be possible to develop fine young men *and* succeed on the ice.

Rest of your post? Spot on.

spwood
02-23-2010, 07:16 AM
Jason Lammers is, without a doubt, the best coach in Geneseo's hockey history.

Sorry, Josh, but if the best coach in your team's history stayed for exactly one year, it doesn't say much about the rest of your history.

93GreatLaker
02-23-2010, 09:08 AM
Jason Lammers is, without a doubt, the best coach in Geneseo's hockey history.

Paul Duffy led your program for 26 years piling up 358 wins.

KnightsOfTheRound
02-23-2010, 09:12 AM
Jason Lammers is, without a doubt, the best coach in Geneseo's hockey history. He instilled a level of work ethic and confidence in the team that neither of the other two coaches I've seen at Geneseo come close to matching. When the team dropped the first game of the then best-of-three SUNYAC finals, Lammers sat confidently in a press conference nobody wanted to ask a question during and stated, simply "We'll see you on Sunday."

I'm not sure if I could go as far as to say the greatest coach in Geneseo history, but a great coach for sure. The 2005-2006 Ice Knights squad was the hardest working group that I saw in four years at the school, and I have to believe a lot of that came from the coach.

My favorite Jason Lammers moment: the game against Buff State, a 7-0 loss, where he basically told his guys "if you're going to hang your goalie out to dry again and again, I'm taking your goalie away." And he did. Geneseo played the majority of the third period of that game with an empty net.

In the SUNYAC playoffs against Fredonia, after an awful game 2 in which all of the momentum for the dreaded mini-game had swung in Fredonia's favor, Lammers made his guys undress and redress in the locker room, to reinforce that the mini-game was a brand new game and anybody could win, regardless of what happened in game 2. The guy was unorthodox sometimes, but he got results from his players on the ice.

I regret some of the things I said about Coach Schultz in the other thread, because for sure the sanctions against the team weren't his fault like I initially assumed that they were. That was my mistake, and for letting my emotions get the best of me and jumping to conclusions, I apologize. I think Coach Schultz can be a fine coach, but he needs to get better results from his team. Thus far the mediocrity of the Schultz era has been less a factor of the talent on the ice and more the team playing flat and refusing to make adjustments when plan A isn't working. I know that Coach Schultz wants to be head coach of the Geneseo Ice Knights for a long time, and isn't looking to jet to a Big Ten school any time soon. I'm willing to give him time, I just want to see reasonable efforts made at improving and adjustments made when necessary. And Geneseo's 6-0-1 run at the end of the season shows me he can do it.