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mwhawk
01-18-2010, 11:55 PM
Bemidji State vs Miami
.5546 0 RPI 1 .5869
2-1-1 .6250 0 TUC 0 .8235 12-1-4
4-1-2 .7143 1 COp 0 .6875 5-2-1
1-0-0 1 H2H 0 0-1-0
2 TOT 1

Why isn't Miami awarded a point for the TUC matchup (and hence the comparison based on the RPI tie breaker) ? 12-1-4 > 2-1-1

Bakunin
01-18-2010, 11:57 PM
IIRC, a team must have at least 10 games vs TUCs for the comparison to be used.

slurpees
01-19-2010, 12:27 AM
IIRC, a team must have at least 10 games vs TUCs for the comparison to be used.

correct. and it may be a bit difficult for bemidji to reach the 10 game mark, so the cop number is going to be critically important for miami in that pair.

The Rube
01-19-2010, 12:37 AM
IIRC, a team must have at least 10 games vs TUCs for the comparison to be used.

I will say this: any PWR question, direct it to Bakunin. He's one of those guys who can calculate the "rankings" in his head as the results of the games come in, come crunch time.

5mn_Major
01-19-2010, 12:43 AM
IIRC, a team must have at least 10 games vs TUCs for the comparison to be used.

Lucky guess.

Bakunin
01-19-2010, 12:54 AM
Lucky guess.
The question hit two pipes before bouncing out.

Brent: I'm not as up on the pairwise as I used to be - about all I can say now is that the WCHA is very likely to get five teams into the tournament due to their non-conference record this season. Whether or not the conference manages to get six into the field will depend on whether or not a bubble team can make some noise in the playoffs again like UMD did last season.

The Rube
01-19-2010, 01:02 AM
The question hit two pipes before bouncing out.

Brent: I'm not as up on the pairwise as I used to be - about all I can say now is that the WCHA is very likely to get five teams into the tournament due to their non-conference record this season. Whether or not the conference manages to get six into the field will depend on whether or not a bubble team can make some noise in the playoffs again like UMD did last season.

And all I'm saying is that it's JANUARY and you already have this figured out. :p

mcfarljd
01-19-2010, 01:33 AM
Bemidji will lose the comparison once March rolls around and they get hit for not playing a good enough schedule. One year away though, I bet they're all pumped in Beaver-land to start playing with the big kids.

beaverhockey
01-19-2010, 08:34 AM
wrong...the pairwise took out the "penalty" for beating a "poor" team. So as long as a team keeps winning...they will stay high in the pairwise. But, a loss to a ""poor" team (like BSU's loss at Niagara Friday night) will drop you a long ways (#4 to #11) in the Pairwise.

Patman
01-19-2010, 10:23 AM
wrong...the pairwise took out the "penalty" for beating a "poor" team. So as long as a team keeps winning...they will stay high in the pairwise. But, a loss to a ""poor" team (like BSU's loss at Niagara Friday night) will drop you a long ways (#4 to #11) in the Pairwise.

its only done on a one-off basis. BSU plays too many "poor" teams and they don't have a good enough record to have those teams dumped away. That's what I recall as principle, I don't know what the current RPI looks like and how many teams have been off-loaded.

slurpees
01-19-2010, 11:12 AM
Bemidji will lose the comparison once March rolls around and they get hit for not playing a good enough schedule. One year away though, I bet they're all pumped in Beaver-land to start playing with the big kids.

not true, the only thing "playing a poor schedule" will affect is RPI, which miami already leads. if bemidji doesnt reach 10 tuc's, the stat is just thrown out and no point is awarded. the sweep by rmu is hurting miami big time right now and they need to root for them to get a W or two vs bemidji to even out cop.

mcfarljd
01-19-2010, 02:47 PM
I meant Tucs. Not losing points by beating up on bad teams

Puck Swami
01-19-2010, 02:52 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20100119/hl_hsn/monkeybrainhardwiredforsimplemath

Red Cloud
01-19-2010, 02:54 PM
I will say this: any PWR question, direct it to Bakunin. He's one of those guys who can calculate the "rankings" in his head as the results of the games come in, come crunch time.

He's not the only one.

dggoddard
01-19-2010, 02:56 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20100119/hl_hsn/monkeybrainhardwiredforsimplemathSo what you're saying is that Scooby may or may not be a monkey. :D

beersong
01-19-2010, 04:08 PM
PWR people humor me a bit here...

So if Bemidji's RPI continues to fall (they have no remaining games vs TUCs after this weekend), and they never get to the 10 game TUC plateau, then BSU would need to win both the common opponent and head-to-head categories to win a comparison? One step further, after this weekend their head-to-head category will be set for the remainder of the season will it not?

ScoobyDoo
01-19-2010, 04:11 PM
So what you're saying is that Scooby may or may not be a monkey. :D

:D

Patman
01-19-2010, 04:19 PM
PWR people humor me a bit here...

So if Bemidji's RPI continues to fall (they have no remaining games vs TUCs after this weekend), and they never get to the 10 game TUC plateau, then BSU would need to win both the common opponent and head-to-head categories to win a comparison? One step further, after this weekend their head-to-head category will be set for the remainder of the season will it not?

Sounds about right... BUT... they would anyways as the RPI breaks all ties. The big difference would be in those cases where Bemidji is even before the RPI breaker (say they split a weekend and then win CoP but not RPI) then the TUC could have had an impact.

So, they'd lose any and all 1-2 cases against higher RPI teams regardless.

The idea is that you don't want a team going 1-0 against TUC teams and winning that category for nearly all those games (save the team they beat). With CoP that shifts from team to team involved in the pair.

blockski
01-19-2010, 05:33 PM
PWR people humor me a bit here...

So if Bemidji's RPI continues to fall (they have no remaining games vs TUCs after this weekend), and they never get to the 10 game TUC plateau, then BSU would need to win both the common opponent and head-to-head categories to win a comparison? One step further, after this weekend their head-to-head category will be set for the remainder of the season will it not?

Well, remember that the TUCs can change. Right now, Bemidji has quite a few opponents hovering around the threshold (top 25 of RPI).

#21 Minnesota
#23 Northern Michigan
-----
#26 Minnesota State
#31 Ohio State
#32 Nebraska Omaha

Now, doing the math earlier in the season, BSU needs pretty much all of those teams in the top 25 to get them all as TUCs and get over the minimum of 10 games. The odds of that happening are remote, but the composition of the TUCs could change, thus BSU's record head to head with some of those teams could change. Say UNO sweeps BSU, that would give them a 2-0 h2h advantage, making the RPI and COp comparisons far more interesting and relevant.

slurpees
01-19-2010, 06:32 PM
Well, remember that the TUCs can change. Right now, Bemidji has quite a few opponents hovering around the threshold (top 25 of RPI).

#21 Minnesota
#23 Northern Michigan
-----
#26 Minnesota State
#31 Ohio State
#32 Nebraska Omaha

Now, doing the math earlier in the season, BSU needs pretty much all of those teams in the top 25 to get them all as TUCs and get over the minimum of 10 games. The odds of that happening are remote, but the composition of the TUCs could change, thus BSU's record head to head with some of those teams could change. Say UNO sweeps BSU, that would give them a 2-0 h2h advantage, making the RPI and COp comparisons far more interesting and relevant.

The odds are very remote as all these teams are from two conferences and with wins and losses more or less cancelling each other out in terms of # of teams above the cliff, I have trouble seeing all 5 jump above #25. Of course thats irrelevant if bemidji loses a couple of games to rmu and the cop shifts to miami. since bemidji would need some losses by miami to make up rpi ground due to their weak remaining schedule, the tuc looks right now like its unlikely to play into the ifnal outcome.