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jcarter7669
01-08-2010, 01:04 PM
Well Grantfan which is ?

Was it because I don't share your undying love for Irwin, or becaues I think Spillane's 4 GAA over the past 5 games is a good enough reason to ride the pine ?


BTW, here is a nice article on Mitchell and his recovery with the Sharks
http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=512790&navid=DL|SJS|home

grantfan
01-08-2010, 01:11 PM
jc, thanks for starting the new thread and remember, we root for the same team.

Maybe Irwin won't win the Walter Brown Award, but if he's a Hobey Hat Trick finalist, I'll be crowing.

And importantly, I may not be the biggest fan of Sneddon's 3 D - 2 freshmen PP unit, but I never said he is the anti-christ.

jcarter7669
01-08-2010, 01:42 PM
Maybe Irwin won't win the Walter Brown Award,

Walter Brown Award, presented each year to the best American-born college hockey player from New England

5 BRAYDEN IRWIN

Year: Senior
Position: F
Height: 6-5
Weight: 215
Hometown: Toronto, Ontario


Hmm, yeah maybe he won't win..........


And importantly, I may not be the biggest fan of Sneddon's 3 D - 2 freshmen PP unit, but I never said he is the anti-christ.

Well at least not in some many words any ways. :rolleyes:

bogi
01-08-2010, 02:53 PM
Two quick comments on a previous post. One, It's interesting that Mike Vazzano is coming to UVM as well to join his brother. Could be interesting to see them possibly competing for playing time in two years along with Madore. Two, why isn't John getting more playing time? This is a kid who was picked 12th overall in the USHL draft a few years back, so it seems like he should be pretty good.

grantfan
01-08-2010, 03:14 PM
One possibility on John Vazzano never playing, bogi, is that the coach has no idea how to handle goalies.

I suppose there could be other possibilities.

Cat lover
01-08-2010, 03:27 PM
One possibility on John Vazzano never playing, bogi, is that the coach has no idea how to handle goalies.

I suppose there could be other possibilities.

I am starting to think Sneddon wronged you in a previous life. You dont like his PP or his use of goalies etc etc.

jcarter7669
01-08-2010, 03:45 PM
One possibility on John Vazzano never playing, bogi, is that the coach has no idea how to handle goalies.

I suppose there could be other possibilities.

And you don't like the power play ....and you don't like his line up or the changes in them.....but Sneddon isn't the anti-christ........

You like Sneddon, you just think he is a horrible coach...is that it???:confused:

observer85
01-08-2010, 03:46 PM
Glad to see the Vermont Sequel is up and running...thank you to jcarter for doing the honors...

Is this the 1st time in recent history that a Vermont thread generated 1000 posts and have to go to a sequel? I am going to guess yes. Too bad the original thread was filled with so much useless banter between our friends in Lowell when they were up but not so much now that they are down.

Anyway, as I wrote below, I think it is important that the last couple of posts from the previous thread find their way onto this thread. The future is the future but the future might also be now. Big losses in personnel after this season could set the program back...much like happens at Lowell, Amherst and Northeastern in recent years.

Observer85 wrote:

Senior (5) forwards : Anctil, Higgins, Irwin, Roloff and Vock. Incoming forwards with a 2010 arrival date (4) : Herrington, Brickley, Decenzo, Montagna

Senior (1) defenseman : Cullity. Defenseman with 2010 arrival date (1) : Doerring

Senior (1) goalie : Spillane. Incoming goalie : ??? Could be Vazzano but appears maybe not as he has 2011 incoming date also.

So this opens the door for discussion...

Other forwards that might not return (3) : Milo - leave for baseball? Academically he is a senior so unless he is interested in graduate work, probably is gone. Atkinson - where is he? Franklin - he has already left the team.

So the coaches have 5 for sure players to replace, potentially 8.

Other defensemen that might not return (4) : Miller - he went to Blackhawks development camp and their scout was on the radio between periods of the early season Merrimack game talking about how much they like him. His stature continues to grow...he was on the all tournament team in the Catamount Cup. Medvec - was drafted in 2006 so if pro team wants him, they will have to make a run at him after this season or he would be eligible to become a free agent. Lawson - he was probably in demand after last season but has struggled this season. A return to how he played last season in the 2nd half, a potential flight risk. MacKenzie - was drafted in 2007 by Buffalo and attended their development camp the last 2 years. Less likely flight risk as he is protected as long as he stays in school for another year.

So the coaches have 1 for sure to replace, potentially 5.

Looks like the UVM coaching staff still have some holes to fill and some big holes if they have some early departures materialize. Since this tread is nearing being closed (1000 posts), perhaps this would be a good discussion item in a 2nd thread? Plus with no games this weekend, what else is there to talk about?
=============================================
jcarter7669 wrote:

I think major losses,

Roloff, Irwin, Vock, these are the big losses, Cullity takes to many penalties and there is significant depth at D if the others stay. Will have to check out how the incoming recruits are doing to really judge.

I don't see many guys leaving early. Milo maybe, tough that the baseball team left, but I think he really loves the game and he can take a few other classes and see how things go. This I think will largely depend on his baseball contract. Toiling in A leagues maybe an incentive to play hockey another year, if they are going to send him into AAA then I think he bolts.

The other guys who went to development camps, I am not too worried about that, Marshall has gone the past few years and he isn't going anywheres. Medvec maybe the biggest risk, he is starting to come on.

All in all, I think you have to replace the departing seniors, Franklin and probably Milo. But hypothetically lets say a defensemen leaves too. That means you have 7 forwards, 2 defensmen, and a goalie that needs replacing. That seems like a lot, but it leaves a good core especially with the 4 freshman forwards that are playing well this season.
=============================================
grantfan wrote:

Observer, you are at your best when you present facts and reasonable thoughts as opposed to your outlandish theories and 'observations.' This is an interesting subject to ponder.

Unfortunately, discussion of UVM players always seems to lead some to make negative or diminishing remarks about some players, e.g., jcarter. Staying away from such comments, I will offer my thoughts.

Yes, losing Brian Roloff, Brayden Irwin, and Colin Vock will be "big losses," but how do you diminish the coming loss of the team's top two penalty killers, Jonathan Higgins and Jay Anctil? On a team coached to live and die by its penalty killing, to say nothing of their presence on the 'fourth' line that gets the most ice time in hockey, these are two players about whom I am certain snwbrdr will write this coming August through December, 'their loss is greater than anticipated,' and 'we didn't realize what kind of players they are until they are gone.' To appreciate Kevin Sneddon hockey is to appreciate players like Higgins and Anctil. Their loss on the defensive side of the puck, and, for the record, I still see Higgins banging in 7-10 goals this season, will be every bit as large as any of the other three.

Of the 'flight risks' mentioned, I think Kyle Medvec, Kevan Miller, Matt Marshall, and Justin Milo are the ones to be most concerned about. There has not been one game at the Gutt where I didn't see Medvec talking to, let's say men who look like either representatives of the Minnesota Wild or player representatives. With his dominant play on the ice, I think he will, and should move on to the professional ranks. He appears to have outgrown - no pun intended - the college game. Likewise, Miller plays like a man out there and looks ready to move on.

With Marshall and Milo, I'm just going by what I have seen on team chat lines, which I happen to consider reliable and trustworthy. The most authoritative Tampa Bay Lightning board harkens back to Marshall's play alongside Steve Stamkos in prospect camps as catapulting Stamkos onto the Lightning roster and catapulting Marshall up the prospect list. Recently, an anonymous source blogged that Marshall's "speed has really blossomed in college (Vermont University) and is National League ready." In case Lightning management blames the UVM coaches for any perceived lack of development in Marshall, and this is just me speaking now, I can see them having him leave school and play major junior hockey.

Likewise with Milo, a NY blog recently listed him as the 6th rated left field prospect and the 3rd rated designated hitter prospect, after Matsui left, in the Yankees organization. The organization apparently has plans for him and is considering placing him on the 40-man roster, which would be a big commitment. If it is announced that Milo is placed on the Yankees' 40-man roster, then he's gone for sure. Sometimes it's hard to even think of him as a hockey player, to remember that he came to UVM as a hockey player.

I guess it would be a longshot that Dan Lawson would leave early. He has that cannonating drive from the point, but so far the only point he has is the one he stands at. Few players with 0 points strike professional scouts as ready to move on to higher levels. Unless, like with the Marshall, an NHL club thinks any perceived lack of development is purely the fault of the coaches. Again, me speaking, I think Lawson has been handled very well by the coaches and has been nurtured to live up to the pre-season raves he received.

After reading both jcarter and grantfan responses, next year very much could be a "eye opening" year.

The forwards that are coming in seem to have very good numbers in the various leagues that they are presently playing in. That is a good thing.

However, the defense is a different story - and perhaps not a good thing. Cullity, Miller and Medvec are what I perceive to be defensive minded defensemen. Burrows, Lawson, MacKenzie and Franzon are not. Herrington, I would consider him to be a defensive minded D. I can't fathom what kind of hair change Coach Sneddon will have on his head with no defensive minded D (greying, thinning, loss altogether...) next year patrolling his blue line.

But...that is college hockey - always changing.

As far as the Vazzano thing...Madore is going to be the "guy" as long as he is attending UVM. Same could be said for Fallon before him. Seems to be one thing this coaching staff is consistent with - the playing of one goalie.

jcarter7669
01-08-2010, 03:55 PM
However, the defense is a different story - and perhaps not a good thing. Cullity, Miller and Medvec are what I perceive to be defensive minded defensemen. Burrows, Lawson, MacKenzie and Franzon are not. Herrington, I would consider him to be a defensive minded D. I can't fathom what kind of hair change Coach Sneddon will have on his head with no defensive minded D (greying, thinning, loss altogether...) next year patrolling his blue line.



It may not be that bad. The forwards coming look promising, and what will be sophmores should be very good.

On D, we say good bye to Cullity. That may actually be a blessing. If he could stay out of the penalty box that would be one thing but he hurts this team almost as much as he helps. SHould the rest stay, and frankly I see little reason they won't, then its replacing the single defensemen. And you end up with a veteran d corp again.

bogi
01-08-2010, 03:58 PM
As far as the Vazzano thing...Madore is going to be the "guy" as long as he is attending UVM. Same could be said for Fallon before him. Seems to be one thing this coaching staff is consistent with - the playing of one goalie.
__________________

And I think playing one goalie makes sense because he can get used to the speed of the game and build up a rapport with the rest of the team. Right now though you have two sophomore goalies and a senior. Madore is the number one and Spillane apparently is the number two since he has been getting playing time. Spillane will be gone next year however and you will have a number two goalie who has never played in a game for almost two years. I would at least get him in there a couple times probably earlier in the season to learn and experience those things you can't in practice. I don't think he can be worse than Spillane's off days.

observer85
01-08-2010, 04:30 PM
grantfan wrote:

With Marshall and Milo, I'm just going by what I have seen on team chat lines, which I happen to consider reliable and trustworthy.

"Reliable and trustworthy"....really, wow!...you don't know how to stop, like a drug, you have to keep writing on a message board to get your fix.


And I think playing one goalie makes sense because he can get used to the speed of the game and build up a rapport with the rest of the team. Right now though you have two sophomore goalies and a senior. Madore is the number one and Spillane apparently is the number two since he has been getting playing time. Spillane will be gone next year however and you will have a number two goalie who has never played in a game for almost two years. I would at least get him in there a couple times probably earlier in the season to learn and experience those things you can't in practice. I don't think he can be worse than Spillane's off days.

In fairness to Spillane, a senior, he sat behind Fallon for 2 years waiting for his opportunity. Coaching staff had 2 years to evaluate his game (granted, most of it was in practice) and determined the incoming freshman was a better fit for the team (last year and it appears, this year). Next year, Vazzano should get his chance to play. But, like Spillane, the coaching staff has had the last 1.5 years to evaluate his game (again, in practice and exhibition games). A lot will be said how they feel about him with who comes in next year, his brother or another goalie currently playing minor hockey.

UVM Cat in Texas
01-08-2010, 04:50 PM
The organization apparently has plans for him and is considering placing him on the 40-man roster, which would be a big commitment. If it is announced that Milo is placed on the Yankees' 40-man roster, then he's gone for sure.
Grant, you seemed to be relying on blogs or sources when you wrote this, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But just to be clear, there isn't a snowball's chance in he!! the Yanks are placing Milo on their 40-man roster. That's not to say he might not have a future in baseball. But they're not going to put a guy who played part of one season in the baseball hinterlands and hit .256 on the 40-man roster. Ain't gonna happen. Brayden Irwin has a better chance of winning the Hobey Baker.

snwbrdr
01-08-2010, 06:36 PM
I just have to comment after reading some of those comments.

Anctil is not going to be a HUGE loss Grantfan. Just not going to be. How many games has he played this year? How can you possibly justify your comments? And Higgins potting 7 or more goals this season? He won't even have 7 in his career when he graduates.

And where is Marshall going to go? He skates well but he has TWO goals in 1.5 seasons at FORWARD. I don't think he's going to be playing with the Lightening next year.

I don't really want to start speculating too much about next season when we have a VERY promising second half to this season still ahead but I also can't keep my thoughts completely to myself on this topic.

Forwards:

Irwin and Roloff will be hugely missed. As will Milo if he leaves - and I expect he will - he will do whatever the yankees want I suspect.

Vock and Cullity will be largely missed, although the latter DOES have temper issues that frequently land him in the penalty box unnecessarily and that hurts the team.

Higgins will be missed. But it's not the end of the world.

Of course we also have lost Franklin and Atkinson. Not huge losses on the ice but certainly a hit to forward depth in the event of injuries or sickness.

I'm liking what I see from Pacan, McCarthy and to a slightly lesser extent Roos and Stalburg (although both seem to be coming on recently). I think they are going to be a solid class, possibly the best class since the one departing this year (including V. Stalburg in it) - maybe better.

The incoming forward class next year is probably as good or better than this years. I have not looked at stats but I know that Montagna was highly touted and they think a lot of Herrington and Decenzo. I don't know much about Brickley.

Defense

The unfortunate unexpected losses - if they happen will be Miller and Medvec. Either could go, although I would not agree that they are each having monster years either. They have been better recently after a rough start but they have a long way to go before they end up in the NHL. I HOPE and PRAY that they stay for their senior year. Although, imagine if they both stay, then we would lose FOUR starting D the following year. The small silver lining in an early departure of one (or both although I hope not) would be a softer transition next year to two or three new D rather than FOUR new D the season after next. Trying to look on the bright side here if they leave early. Franzon looks good to me though but depth would be a huge problem unless they add to the incoming D class.

Goalie wise I fully expect to see the younger Vazzano splitting time Madore next year.

4035
01-08-2010, 07:10 PM
One possibility on John Vazzano never playing, bogi, is that the coach has no idea how to handle goalies.

I suppose there could be other possibilities.

Sneddon listens to Terry Lovelette regarding goalies.

Terry Lovelette has been UVM's goalie coach for the past 16 seasons and coached some kids who have turned out to be ok... guys like Tim Thomas and Joe Fallon.. I think Thomas may have even one some kind of award in the NHL (like the Vezina) (sarcasm just in case you missed it)

As well as a Freshman who help take UVM to the Frozen Four last year.

Martin St. Louis Fan
01-08-2010, 07:54 PM
Sneddon listens to Terry Lovelette regarding goalies.

Terry Lovelette has been UVM's goalie coach for the past 16 seasons and coached some kids who have turned out to be ok... guys like Tim Thomas and Joe Fallon.. I think Thomas may have even one some kind of award in the NHL (like the Vezina) (sarcasm just in case you missed it)

As well as a Freshman who help take UVM to the Frozen Four last year.

Well said. Terry is an awesome guy. I believe his is also a volunteer. (Feel free to correct me) The UVM program is extremely fortunate to have him as a mentor.

kdaddy
01-09-2010, 03:34 AM
The PWR is getting interesting. If BC keeps losing and the teams beat each other up you might end up with only 3 teams from HE (maybe even 2 if it really gets bad). UVM is now 10th and controls their path from here on out (leading team in HE PWR). That out of conference schedule is looming very large right now with the Yale, UMD, and Denver wins. It's great that they play such a good schedule (and for those who said "it's only Yale not like it's a real team" etc...this is what will save UVM right now if they barely make it in) it will definitely help in March if they struggle.

kdaddy
01-09-2010, 11:13 PM
The PWR is getting interesting. If BC keeps losing and the teams beat each other up you might end up with only 3 teams from HE (maybe even 2 if it really gets bad). UVM is now 10th and controls their path from here on out (leading team in HE PWR). That out of conference schedule is looming very large right now with the Yale, UMD, and Denver wins. It's great that they play such a good schedule (and for those who said "it's only Yale not like it's a real team" etc...this is what will save UVM right now if they barely make it in) it will definitely help in March if they struggle.

Looks like they stay there after the weekend. Still control their destiny.

observer85
01-09-2010, 11:24 PM
Looks like they stay there after the weekend. Still control their destiny.

Weekend is not over yet. Denver is still playing -watching on Fox Sports Rocky Mountain. They are tied with Alaska, tied last night. Vermont needs them to win as Denver's tie last night dropped them from 9 to 10. Plus Michigan States win is not post yet.

A couple games on Sunday probably won't impact them unless Yale loses.

kdaddy
01-10-2010, 12:02 AM
Weekend is not over yet. Denver is still playing -watching on Fox Sports Rocky Mountain. They are tied with Alaska, tied last night. Vermont needs them to win as Denver's tie last night dropped them from 9 to 10. Plus Michigan States win is not post yet.

A couple games on Sunday probably won't impact them unless Yale loses.

I meant more vs the other HE teams.

bottomdweller
01-10-2010, 09:31 AM
You guys are going to give yourselves ulcers if you look at the PWR after each game ends. Wait until the middle of February when you get deep into the conference schedules before you start to feel comfortable/worry with where UVM is situated.