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sshablak
12-06-2009, 07:07 AM
Just curious...what is the general concensus out there on the ECAC "zebras" ? I for one am not pleased at all. Yes, I am a "Gate" fan, but some things just don't seem to change over the years.

Friday night a Union player was assessed a penalty shot, the only thing was, the refs awarded the penalty shot TO the wrong player for Union. How could that happen. How could you possibly screw that up ?

I watch opposing players, after the whistle, jab...slash...crosscheck...McIntyre from Colgate and when he protects himself Mc gets the retaliation penalty...total BS as far as I'm concerned. And no I'm not always bashing the refs either. Your chance Got6 !!!

starlessixisky
12-06-2009, 07:13 AM
I feel like the refs are always very one sided. I've seen it used against us many times (Quinnipiac) but I've also seen it in our favor. I am not one to want an advantage from the refs. I think it should be even across the board, but for many of the ECAC refs it's always a one sided game. And that's not fair to the team that's being penalized. It's not an even match up and then if that team loses, you can't fairly judge if that team should have lost or not.
This goes for penalty refs and for the line judges. There's a few lines judges out that that have to be blind I swear.
And let's not even get started on when refs get themselves mixed up with the players during a play :mad:

aweise
12-06-2009, 08:05 AM
Just curious...what is the general concensus out there on the ECAC "zebras" ? I for one am not pleased at all. Yes, I am a "Gate" fan, but some things just don't seem to change over the years.

Friday night a Union player was assessed a penalty shot, the only thing was, the refs awarded the penalty shot TO the wrong player for Union. How could that happen. How could you possibly screw that up ?

It was clearly the wrong call - Kelly Zajac had the mini-breakaway, but Mario Valery-Trabucco took the shot. I thought the call for a penalty shot was correct, but Union got away with letting Trabucco (by far their best shooter) take the shot. Now, there are cases where the "victimized" team can choose the shooter, but that wasn't one of them.

As far as the zebras go, I think they've been "OK" over the course of the season so far. There have been a few missed penalty calls (IMO) and some questionable calls, but that's par for the course with these guys. I haven't see any egregiously bad calls or non-calls...yet. Give it time, though. :p

I think starlessixisky has it right - the refs seem to be one-sided in many games, plus an occasional make-up call thrown in. Once we get into the heart of the league schedule in late January, I think we're going to hear a lot of complaints.

FlagDUDE08
12-06-2009, 09:30 AM
I always thought anyone on the ice could take a penalty shot..... d'oh!

You get good refs when you play RPI.

kdiff77
12-06-2009, 12:36 PM
Whichever group did the Brown-Princeton game on Friday should officiate every ECAC game. It was great- they let the game flow (3 total penalties), but still had control so that it didn't get out of control. It was a very physical, scrappy game, too, so I think that really just further promotes their quality.

As for the rest of the refs in ECAC: I am astonished that half of them are still employed.

'Gate Radio
12-06-2009, 12:39 PM
Rule 4, Section 6
SECTION 6. a. When any infraction of the rules calls for a penalty shot
not involving a major, disqualification or misconduct penalty, the nonoffending
team shall be given the option of accepting the penalty shot
or having a minor penalty assessed to the offending player. If, however,
a major, disqualification or misconduct penalty is incurred with the
penalty shot, the shot shall be awarded and the penalty for the prescribed
infraction shall be assessed.

d. When a penalty shot is awarded under Rules 2-5-h, i and 6-34-e (illegal
entry into the game), 6-10-f (in the last two minutes of regulation
time or anytime during overtime, displacing the goal post, goalkeeper
removing the helmet and/or face mask, or deliberately displacing the
goal to prevent the puck from entering the goal at any time) or 6-16-b
(defending player falling on, holding or gathering the puck into the body
or hands when the puck in within the goal crease), the captain of the
offending team shall designate any player who is not serving a penalty
at that time to take the penalty shot. Such selection shall be reported to
the referee and cannot be changed.
When a penalty shot is awarded under Rules 6-29-e (interference) and
6-59-b (fouling from behind), the referee shall designate the player who has
been fouled as the player who shall take the penalty shot.
When a penalty shot is awarded under Rule 6-10-f (during the course of
a breakaway, a goalkeeper or player deliberately displaces the goal post or a
goalkeeper deliberately removes the helmet and/or face mask), the penalty
shot shall be taken by the player last in possession of the puck.

Wholin1
12-06-2009, 12:42 PM
I haven't noticed much difference from previous seasons, maybe just a bit of an improvement, certainly not too much worse. Consistency, or lack of it to me seems to be the most pronounced problem.

Rainman
12-06-2009, 12:47 PM
Based on what 'Gate Radio posted, that means the refs at the Colgate-Union game got the call wrong. Zajac should have taken the penalty shot for Union, not Valery-Trabucco. At least it wasn't a score.

Officiating at yesterday's Colgate-RPI game was AWFUL. At least twice Colgate should have been called for off-sides, and got away with it. McIntyre shoved a RPI player onto the ice in Colgate's defensive zone during the 2nd and there was no call. And in most Colgate games opposing defenders are doing everything they can to maim McIntyre ... most of the time, no call.

At least Eugene Binda Jr. isn't officiating in this league anymore. But the following refs are those I've never liked in a key game:
-John Murphy
-Peter Feola
-Chip McDonald
-Alex Dell

MarkEagleUSA
12-06-2009, 01:50 PM
Consistency, or lack of it to me seems to be the most pronounced problem.That's the main complaint I have. Not only are they inconsistent within a game, they're inconsistent from one game to the next.

FlagDUDE08
12-06-2009, 02:23 PM
Based on what 'Gate Radio posted, that means the refs at the Colgate-Union game got the call wrong. Zajac should have taken the penalty shot for Union, not Valery-Trabucco. At least it wasn't a score.

Officiating at yesterday's Colgate-RPI game was AWFUL. At least twice Colgate should have been called for off-sides, and got away with it. McIntyre shoved a RPI player onto the ice in Colgate's defensive zone during the 2nd and there was no call. And in most Colgate games opposing defenders are doing everything they can to maim McIntyre ... most of the time, no call.

At least Eugene Binda Jr. isn't officiating in this league anymore. But the following refs are those I've never liked in a key game:
-John Murphy
-Peter Feola
-Chip McDonald
-Alex Dell

Add Baker to that list. And Kotyra.

doghok
12-06-2009, 02:35 PM
The reffering in this league is below what is required, and the better the player, depending on the team I've come to notice, the more the reaction penalty is handed out, as opposed to the initiation.

Mr. Stewart, the head of officiating, had a wonderful NHL career both as a player and referree. However, I have never seen him at any games watching our product to assess and evaluate his talent.

I cannot remember any games the "Murphy's" have reffed at any rink that stands out. I know they must dis-like the Coach's and/or our current
captian(s) at Colgate. If he even sneezes, they send him to the Sin-Bin for littering.

One would have hoped that the Two Ref system would be a marked improvement. However, in saying all this, ECAC hockey is frantic hockey, and isn't coached or played within systems similar to the WCHA or the CCHA.

We can discuss this subject until we are blue in the face, however, the problem usually starts or ends, from the Top down.

DrDemento
12-06-2009, 02:41 PM
As an old timer I can say for certain that bad reffing is nothing new in the ECAC. Names like Mike Noeth, Harry Amian and Pierre Berlanger bring up horror stories in my mind. Going to the two ref system seemed like a good idea at the time but has just made it so we get twice as many bad calls. I don't know if it will ever be any better. Perhaps if the pay were better? Does anyone know what the refs are paid these days for doing a game?

MarkEagleUSA
12-06-2009, 03:14 PM
Going to the two ref system seemed like a good idea at the time but has just made it so we get twice as many bad calls.And they're missing twice as many calls as well. :mad:

The refs are too complacent. There just doesn't seem to be any accountability.

Wholin1
12-06-2009, 03:35 PM
As an old timer I can say for certain that bad reffing is nothing new in the ECAC. Names like Mike Noeth, Harry Amian and Pierre Berlanger bring up horror stories in my mind. Going to the two ref system seemed like a good idea at the time but has just made it so we get twice as many bad calls. I don't know if it will ever be any better. Perhaps if the pay were better? Does anyone know what the refs are paid these days for doing a game?
Doc, do you mean pay from the league or other sources?. :rolleyes: I'd also like to know what training, certification, continuing education, etc. is involved. I would also say that in their partial defense, I assume all of these guys have day jobs are very much part timers, and have a pretty tough job to do.

Got 6, Want More
12-06-2009, 06:40 PM
Compared to these guys, I miss Belanger, Amian and Noeth! It really is not worth complaining about, but it is still frustrating.

Stewart is not the answer. If his talent were have as big as his ego, he would be the best ref in the world. In Albany last year, he was too buys chasing fluff to pay attention to hockey. He was at the Harvard - SLU game this year, and got to watch the linesman give a penalty to Alex Curran who wasn't even on the ice for a scrum in front of the Harvard goal. He defends them. He says he solved fighting in the league by not letting teams go out and tap their goalie after every period. He is delusional. He gives the "how many teams are there in the ECAC?" speech every year. The 13th team being the officials who, of course, pretty much have never played a game in their lives and wouldn't know flow if they were going through the sewer system like a water slide!!

There are a few things that really chaffe me. One is when they give a clear advantage to one team which is frequent. Second, is when they don't do what is necessary to prevent injuries and out of control play. Against Dartmouth in Albany in 2007, Casey Parenteau got absolutely drilled from behind into the boards. While he lay motionless, Dave Hansen (who was one of the better refs) saw the whole thing, called nothing and stepped over the motionless player. I thought there were three dangerous plays in the Friday SLU-Clarkson tilt all of which could have been majors. None were, and one was called on the wrong team / player! Also on Friday night, I thought Beca was out of control with his stick.....nothing called. It is not even what they call, it is what they don't call. And, I have often complained that the real issue is there is no consistency between crews, between games, between periods or even between shifts. Clakson got a PP to tie the game with 30 seconds left on Friday....equally serious infractions were not called in the first or second periods. I have just tried to accept that it is always going to be bad and have the mentality that you have to play through it. Problem is when that happens in a playoff series. Back in about 2004ish, Kotyra absolutely put it to the Saints at Colgate. He was the difference in the series IMHO, and he didn't protect the players. Trevelyan got hit high an concussed. Kotyra did it again, although not as noticably, last year in Albany when we played Yale. Some nights, they are the difference in the game and that is a real tragedy....because the kids and the fans and the parents have so much riding on these games.

A final thought, in other leagues, they actually are part of the league. They have cookouts in the summers with all the refs and coaches, they get together, and that is one reason when the ECAC plays on the road you are never going to get a call in the CCHA, WCHA or HEA!! The refs were absolutely laughable for us at Maine. Called everything on us, nothing on them.

I am convinced the officiating is much better in the OHL / CHL. I wish we could get some of those guys. I think just the part time nature and the where are league is run, there are flaws.

Oh, and so far the officiating is about the same, maybe a touch better this year but there is LOTS of room for improvement.

GreatLakerMohawk
12-06-2009, 07:06 PM
No one in Troy misses Noeth - that guy was f-cking brutal.

St. Lawrence has quickly jumped up my list of officials that I groan when I see out there.

Dutchfan
12-06-2009, 07:17 PM
Mike freaking Noeth, when was the last time anyone saw that tool? It's been a while.

This can't be the same guy, can it? http://www.nhlofficials.com/alumni.asp?alumni_id=29

ThePeople
12-06-2009, 09:21 PM
Kotyra is the worst ref in the league bar none, have to give second worst to Feola.
The reffing hasn't been horrendous for the most part but I feel they are not calling enough penalties. Honestly, they let games get way out of hand to the point where a lot of players can and have been getting injured. They need to call dirty stuff early and stop calling non-existent hooking (which seems to be the favored call at the Houston Field House this year)

On another note, the line refs have been terrible and it's really annoying

by the way, Union always gets calls in their favor and pretty much has been as for as long as i've seen (go to any RPI @ Union game and watch Union players literally wrap their arms around RPI's players legs and hold them back for well over 5 seconds without a call). The only team i've ever seen be given a penalty shot, even when they're not even on a breakaway and don't get fouled.

ADK11
12-06-2009, 10:08 PM
IMO it seems the refs are letting more go this season than in the last couple. Seems like the days of calling everything that is close to an obstruction or interference are over. Sometimes this has benefited Union and other times not, but I'd rather see it called closer and let the skill players do their thing.

My biggest peeve is the faceoffs. Is it just me or does it seem like there is a mandate for the linesmen to throw-out at least one player at each faceoff.. the last RPI game was a complete joke, for the first half of the game every RPI face-off man got kicked out and then it was Union's turn in the second half. The high point was when a Union center got kicked out before he even setup to take the faceoff (I guess he took too long or something) and then before either center was set the linesman threw the puck down so hard it bounced 3 feet in the air!! Complete joke..

..and don't tell me that Union is getting all the calls this season after watching Brutlag HEAD BUTT a Union player TWICE right in front of the refs and only get a minor penalty.. brutal

Got 6, Want More
12-07-2009, 07:15 AM
I am the first to admit that the call that Brutlag of RPI got against us at Appleton where we got the game-winner was a terrible call. However, it was a makeup call in my opinion. I'd rather they just make the right call first, instead of the makeup call as winning on a bad call cheapens the win.

Not to start a flame war, but the team that seems to benefit most is Cornell. They clutch, grab and pick all game and never seem to pay for it. Not all their players do it and they don't do it all the time and there are some players at Cornell every year that every team would love to have....but how they don't get more calls against is beyond me.