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PrezdeJohnson09
11-15-2009, 01:11 PM
Back again this week...Not too much excitement in the rankings.

Here's my guess out how you'll see things pan out on Monday afternoon.

1.St. Norbert
2.Oswego
3.Plattsburgh
4.Manhattanville
5.Adrian
6.Middlebury
7.River Falls
8.Stout
9.St. Scholastica
10.Amherst
11.Norwich
12.Superior
13.Elmira
14.Hobart
15.Curry

Is the 5th spot the new 7th spot this year for Adrian until their meeting with Oswego on January 8th? Adrian was locked into that 7 spot last year no matter what they did and I have a feeling the 5th spot may turn into the same thing this year.

I dropped out Neumann because they did not seem like a top 15 team when I saw them on Friday night. Not sure what the hell Dawes was thinking when he started Tendler instead of McKinnon. McKinnon led Neumann to the title last year and held Elmira to one goal in the ECAC West semis and NCAA Play-In game last year. He had the Soaring Eagles number and when he came into the game, allowed just one goal again.

The 15th spot was a crapshoot. I was between Utica, Curry, and Wentworth. Went with Curry because they are traditionally the stronger team of that group.

one_to7
11-15-2009, 07:55 PM
Prez, he got lit up against Utica, giving up 5 goals on 17 shots. Maybe the coach wanted to send him a message, maybe he's hurt, maybe he did make a mistake. But...I'm pretty sure he was thinking when he started someone else in net, at least

Matthew Webb
11-15-2009, 08:10 PM
Not sure what the hell Dawes was thinking when he started Tendler instead of McKinnon. McKinnon led Neumann to the title last year and held Elmira to one goal in the ECAC West semis and NCAA Play-In game last year.

What does last year have to do with anything? I'm guessing that the 3.98gaa and .875 save percentage so far this season had something to do with it.

PrezdeJohnson09
11-15-2009, 08:11 PM
Prez, he got lit up against Utica, giving up 5 goals on 17 shots. Maybe the coach wanted to send him a message, maybe he's hurt, maybe he did make a mistake. But...I'm pretty sure he was thinking when he started someone else in net, at least

I didn't say he wasn't thinking. I asked "what he was thinking"

I realize he got lit up against Utica and also realize hindsight is 20/20 but McKinnon absolutely had Elmira's number last season in those final two games. I was stunned when Tendler came out first for warm-ups.

His decision backfired majorly and cost Neumann a chance to win a big ECAC West game.

All I'm saying is based off how well Mckinnon played last year against Elmira, I just don't know how you can't start him especially in the Domes where he won those big games.

PrezdeJohnson09
11-15-2009, 08:14 PM
What does last year have to do with anything? I'm guessing that the 3.98gaa and .875 save percentage so far this season had something to do with it.

What do you mean what does last year have to do with anything? You've never had a goaltender that's played really well against one team or a couple of teams?

It happens all the time in sports where a quarterback completely owns a specific team because of the way they play, style, player's tendencies, etc or a basketball player goes for 30 or 40 against a team every time they play.

The kid plain and simple plays well against Elmira and he proved it again on Friday night making some big saves to only allow Elmira one goal once he came into the game.

Matthew Webb
11-15-2009, 09:30 PM
The kid plain and simple plays well against Elmira and he proved it again on Friday night making some big saves to only allow Elmira one goal once he came into the game.

Never think in such absolute terms.

http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/melmneu1.j24
http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/melmneu1.j03

He as 1-2-1 against Elmira last season and was pulled twice.

Elmira_College-Fan
11-15-2009, 10:10 PM
Never think in such absolute terms.

http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/melmneu1.j24
http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/melmneu1.j03

He as 1-2-1 against Elmira last season and was pulled twice.

I might be wrong didn't he beat Elmira twice? In the ECAC-W playoffs then again in the 1st round of the NCAA's and pulled twice? Iam not sure tho

one_to7
11-15-2009, 10:22 PM
What do you mean what does last year have to do with anything? You've never had a goaltender that's played really well against one team or a couple of teams?

It happens all the time in sports where a quarterback completely owns a specific team because of the way they play, style, player's tendencies, etc or a basketball player goes for 30 or 40 against a team every time they play.

The kid plain and simple plays well against Elmira and he proved it again on Friday night making some big saves to only allow Elmira one goal once he came into the game.
4 regular season games against elmira:

2 from 17 in 59 minutes
4 from 13 in 27 minutes
2 from 50 in 65 minutes
4 from 18 in 20 minutes

That's 12 goals on 98 shots. That's below .880 for his save percentage, and over 4 for his GAA.

Yes, he played well in one regular season game against elmira, plus the 2 NCAA games, but he also played in 23 other games over the course of the season, including three other ones against elmira.

If you add up all his games against elmira, they're good, but not spectacular. Throw in his stats being pretty bad so far this year, and coming off a bad game against utica, and it's not really a 'what was he thinking??' moment that he chose to go with a different goalie.

Sidenote: kind of odd that neither team had more than 29 shots in the first two games, but every game at elmira saw at least one team with over 40.

Matthew Webb
11-15-2009, 10:44 PM
I might be wrong didn't he beat Elmira twice? In the ECAC-W playoffs then again in the 1st round of the NCAA's and pulled twice? Iam not sure tho

You are correct. 2-2-1, I missed the NCAA game. Doesn't really change anything, though.

PrezdeJohnson09
11-15-2009, 10:52 PM
You are correct. 2-2-1, I missed the NCAA game. Doesn't really change anything, though.

I guess agree to disagree. What I meant is if I was coaching Neumann, I would have gone with McKinnon based off what he did against Elmira in the two most crucial games they played against each other last year, not to mention his play was a big reason why Neumann won the National Championship.

I've seen Tendler and McKinnon play a fair amount of times now and I feel McKinnon gives the team the best chance to win and I think his resume is pretty darn good for a sophomore goaltender.

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
11-15-2009, 11:00 PM
I've seen Tendler and McKinnon play a fair amount of times now and I feel McKinnon gives the team the best chance to win and I think his resume is pretty darn good for a sophomore goaltender.

Don't go praising sophomore goaltenders... we all know what happened when people did that last year Hince.:rolleyes:

Matthew Webb
11-15-2009, 11:30 PM
I've seen Tendler and McKinnon play a fair amount of times now and I feel McKinnon gives the team the best chance to win and I think his resume is pretty darn good for a sophomore goaltender.

Now this makes sense. Thinking one should play over another because you've seen them both play and one is better than the other is logical.


I guess agree to disagree. What I meant is if I was coaching Neumann, I would have gone with McKinnon based off what he did against Elmira in the two most crucial games they played against each other last year, not to mention his play was a big reason why Neumann won the National Championship.

Chocking it up to some mystical psychological Elmira Factor on the other hand, is not.

Just to name a few:

-MacKinnon hasn't been tearing it up this season, so maybe coach wanted to see what the other guy could do against a quality opponent. He allowed five goals on 12 shots in his prior start against Utica. Was pulled from the game.
-Maybe he was injured
-Maybe he was sick
-Maybe he was late for a team meeting and wasn't going to play barring emergency
-Maybe MacKinnon was lousy in practice all week
-Maybe Tendler was a stud in practice all week
-Maybe coach noticed some tendency for the team to play with more confidence out in front of Tendler
-Maybe Dawes **** well felt like it, which could be justiable for dozens of reasons
-Maybe none of the above
-Maybe, like me, you have no clue what the reality is here


Goaltending is a fickle thing. I'm aware of more than one instance where a coach was **** near "trying" to establish someone as a #1 and it never happened because someone else got in there and played so well there was never a reason to take him out.

Point is, there are a wide variety of reasons Tendler might have started Friday. Therefore, to say that "you don't know what the hell Dawes was thinking" is a ridiculous statement, but in a fun backwards sort of way.

You said it to imply his judgement was flawed, but it actually ends up a beautiful irony...because the truth is that you really have no clue what Dawes was thinking.

bayliner2555
11-16-2009, 07:59 AM
I didn't know that there were poll predictions for which goalie a coach should start. :confused: :rolleyes:

NorthernLite
11-16-2009, 11:00 AM
Back again this week...Not too much excitement in the rankings.

Is the 5th spot the new 7th spot this year for Adrian until their meeting with Oswego on January 8th? Adrian was locked into that 7 spot last year no matter what they did and I have a feeling the 5th spot may turn into the same thing this year.


You may be right about Adrian being a fixture in 5th position in the poll.
Still some great company at the top to be mentioned with.:cool:


The date with Oswego will be significant, however Adrian have a few games prior to Oswego that could result in movement ,including a couple of games against Hamline.

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
11-16-2009, 04:01 PM
New Polls are up... and I find it very intriguing. Oswego and Plattsburgh both lose First-Place votes without losing a single game. River Falls and Scholastica each move up 2 spots despite having gone 1-0-1 and 0-0-2, respectively, and Stout stays put despite being on the other end of Scholastica's 0-0-2 weekend.


1. St. Norbert (16) 6-0-1 296 1
2. Oswego 7-1-0 269 2
3. Plattsburgh 4-1-0 255 3
4. Manhattanville ( 2) 3-0-0 242 4
5. Adrian ( 2) 4-0-0 214 5
6. Wis.-River Falls 5-1-1 183 8
7. Middlebury 0-0-0 180 7
8. St. Scholastica 3-1-2 141 10
9. Wis.-Stout 2-2-2 111 9
10. Amherst 0-0-0 103 11
11. Elmira 5-2-0 90 15
12. Norwich 0-0-0 88 12
13. Neumann 2-2-2 65 6
14. Hobart 3-2-2 45 13
15. Wis.-Superior 3-2-0 38 14
Others Recieving Votes: Curry 16, Gustavus Adolphus 15, Hamline 13,
Utica 8, Babson 7, St. Olaf 6, New England College 5, Castleton 3,
Marian 3, St. Thomas 3, Lawrence 1

bayliner2555
11-16-2009, 04:08 PM
And those who have not played continue to do well in the poll. :rolleyes:

Irishdave
11-16-2009, 04:13 PM
Now that this week's poll is out

I am wondering about the first place votes

1 St. Norbert (16) 6-0-1 296 1
2 Oswego 7-1-0 269 2
3 Plattsburgh 4-1-0 255 3
4 Manhattanville ( 2) 3-0-0 242 4
5 Adrian ( 2) 4-0-0 214 5


verses last weeks

1 St. Norbert ( 7) 4-0-1 279 11
2 Oswego ( 6) 5-1-0 274 8
3 Plattsburgh ( 4) 3-1-0 257 1
4 Manhattanville ( 1) 3-0-0 209 12
5 Adrian ( 2) 2-0-0 208 6


It looks like St. Norbert sucked up all but one of the 10 votes the Sunyac teams had
Was St. Norbert weekend that good beating a 2-5-0 team twice? Where Oswego beat a Cortland team by 4 and a Not too shabby Utica team
And Plattsburgh beat an up and coming Morrisville team.

I guess that is why they call them polls

Pioneers#1
11-16-2009, 04:24 PM
It'll be interesting to see where Utica goes if we beat Neumann and Lebanon Valley this weekend.....

Also,is it fair that Utica loses 10 recieving votes in this weeks poll,I know we kicked the crap out of WNEC,but we only lost to Oswego by 1 goal(since they average over 5 goals a game),and we had a nice come back coming in the third period.Too bad theres not 25:00 minute 3rd periods,if that was so,Utica could have tied or beat Oswego.....

It'll be very interesting when Oswego comes to Utica december 8th.....they diden't have much luck last time they came to Utica,losing 5-2 i think,and Oswego was 14-0-0 when they came to Utica and i believe they won a National Championship the same year.

one_to7
11-16-2009, 04:45 PM
It'll be interesting to see where Utica goes if we beat Neumann and Lebanon Valley this weekend.....

Also,is it fair that Utica loses 10 recieving votes in this weeks poll,I know we kicked the crap out of WNEC,but we only lost to Oswego by 1 goal(since they average over 5 goals a game),and we had a nice come back coming in the third period.Too bad theres not 25:00 minute 3rd periods,if that was so,Utica could have tied or beat Oswego.....
Of course it's fair, they lost.

And Oswego possibly could've scored 3 of their own goals in that extra 5 minutes, who knows.

Hockey is 60 minutes, with 3 20 minute periods. If you can't get it done then.... you lose.

norm1909
11-16-2009, 05:34 PM
...
Hockey is 60 minutes, with 3 20 minute periods. If you can't get it done then.... you lose.

Or tie:p ;)