Bracketology

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Bracketology

This doesn't seem like sound reasoning to me. What if they split 3-3? What if a ton of other things happen?

If they can finish as a 3 seed and if they can finish out of the tournament, then I guarantee there are literally billions of scenarios where they finish as a 4 seed. There are 245 regular season games left to play, each of which can end in a win, loss, or tie. 3 possibilities to the 245th power = 7.8e116 possibilities, not even counting the conference tournaments. I guarantee there are billions and billions of scenarios where NoDak ends as a 4 seed.

Quit being smart. This is a message board.

[Alton]

Re: Bracketology

Good stuff. Give an example outside of last year that they switched #15 and #16 because of travel?

In 2007: #1 Minnesota, #2 Notre Dame, ... , #15 Air Force, #16 Alabama-Huntsville. Minnesota went to the Denver Regional, Notre Dame to the Grand Rapids Regional. #15 Air Force played #1 Minnesota in Denver and #16 Alabama-Huntsville played #2 Notre Dame in Grand Rapids.

Also, in 2003, #1 Cornell played #14 Mankato State while #2 Colorado College played #16 Wayne State in Ann Arbor. This may have been to avoid intra-conference matchups, but there were 5 WCHA teams in the tournament--and aren't people saying that there is no obligation to avoid them if there are 5 teams from one conference? But if you look at 2003, it's a lot like this situation--5 WCHA teams, 2 1-seeds, 1 3-seed and 2 4-seeds. They ensured that the 2 1-seeds did not play the 2 4-seeds, even though there were 5 WCHA teams in the tournament (and it hurt the #1 overall seed Cornell).

That is how it is on every other NCAA level the top seed plays the lowest seed and so on.

People think that because basketball does something, then every NCAA sport does it. Tell this to a fan of a west coast NCAA baseball team. They will tell you (correctly) that they don't get the benefit of a high seed because the tournament is seeded geographically. If Cal State Fullerton is the #1 team in the nation, they will still end up playing one of the top #4 seeds (like Pepperdine, for example) rather than one of the worst #4 seeds. The NCAA puts the team in bands, but seeds the bands geographically. The same is true in Softball, Lacrosse, Volleyball and so on. You can't expect to play the worst team in the nation just because you are the #1 overall seed, but you can expect to play the worst team in the region.

[wasmania]

Re: Bracketology

Good stuff. Give an example outside of last year that they switched #15 and #16 because of travel?

You are right the difference between 15 and 16 theoretically isn't much. But look at the difference of opponent there is a big difference between RIT and UND. ( no disrespect to RIT, but there is a big difference ) Now with that said it isn't because of North Dakota, if that was Yale or Michigan it would be a big difference still. Last year they didn't have much choice to do what they did, this year they have a loop hole that would allow them to avoid moving the 16 away from the 1.

Again this is my point. In this example there is not a big difference between RIT and UND. For pairing purposes, they are both #4 seeds, which makes them the same (thank you alton for your explanation). Where in the rulebook does it say that teams given the same seed that are historically good are treated differently than unheralded teams by making sure that the top seed doesnt have to play them?

[ts8801]

Re: Bracketology

Again this is my point. In this example there is not a big difference between RIT and UND. For pairing purposes, they are both #4 seeds, which makes them the same (thank you alton for your explanation). Where in the rulebook does it say that teams given the same seed that are historically good are treated differently than unheralded teams by making sure that the top seed doesnt have to play them?

There is the rule book then what actually happens, you can't say the selection committee is going to look at what ever team ends up being the #15 seed and the AHA champ which, might crack the top 30 in KRACH or RPI as being equal because they are in the same band. It has nothing to do with the #15 team being historically better its the fact that the AHA champ is only in the tourney because of the auto-bid.

[redhawkman10]

Re: Bracketology

In 2007: #1 Minnesota, #2 Notre Dame, ... , #15 Air Force, #16 Alabama-Huntsville. Minnesota went to the Denver Regional, Notre Dame to the Grand Rapids Regional. #15 Air Force played #1 Minnesota in Denver and #16 Alabama-Huntsville played #2 Notre Dame in Grand Rapids.

Also, in 2003, #1 Cornell played #14 Mankato State while #2 Colorado College played #16 Wayne State in Ann Arbor. This may have been to avoid intra-conference matchups, but there were 5 WCHA teams in the tournament--and aren't people saying that there is no obligation to avoid them if there are 5 teams from one conference? But if you look at 2003, it's a lot like this situation--5 WCHA teams, 2 1-seeds, 1 3-seed and 2 4-seeds. They ensured that the 2 1-seeds did not play the 2 4-seeds, even though there were 5 WCHA teams in the tournament (and it hurt the #1 overall seed Cornell).



People think that because basketball does something, then every NCAA sport does it. Tell this to a fan of a west coast NCAA baseball team. They will tell you (correctly) that they don't get the benefit of a high seed because the tournament is seeded geographically. If Cal State Fullerton is the #1 team in the nation, they will still end up playing one of the top #4 seeds (like Pepperdine, for example) rather than one of the worst #4 seeds. The NCAA puts the team in bands, but seeds the bands geographically. The same is true in Softball, Lacrosse, Volleyball and so on. You can't expect to play the worst team in the nation just because you are the #1 overall seed, but you can expect to play the worst team in the region.

Thanks for the examples, wasn't being a smart *** just wanted to see how many times it has happened. You are correct baseball does it in bands rather than 1 vs 64. They do it geographically, so you are correct in that sense. But they don't deny that and it isn't defined in their rules that they do it 1 vs 64 or in bands but they do it in a way that works for them.

[redhawkman10]

Re: Bracketology

There is the rule book then what actually happens, you can't say the selection committee is going to look at what ever team ends up being the #15 seed and the AHA champ which, might crack the top 30 in KRACH or RPI as being equal because they are in the same band. It has nothing to do with the #15 team being historically better its the fact that the AHA champ is only in the tourney because of the auto-bid.

exaclty! but he still won't get it.

[redhawkman10]

Re: Bracketology

I understand plenty there, Mr. Dynasty, go joik yourself a soda.

Don't know what joik is... and Im not Mr. Dynasty, you are awful bitter your team must be awful lol.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Bracketology

The NCAA will avoid intraconference matchups if they can. Just because they don't have to, doesn't mean they won't.

I don't think the number 5 was chosen arbitrarily...

[redhawkman10]

Re: Bracketology

The NCAA will avoid intraconference matchups if they can. Just because they don't have to, doesn't mean they won't.

I don't think the number 5 was chosen arbitrarily...

Very true, it just gives them a loop hole should they want to ignore it. But you are correct in saying that they don't have to, in their minds it could keep the integrity of the bracket more to switch the 16 and 15 seeds.

[redhawkman10]

Re: Bracketology

Looks like Moy made the switch and moved North Dakota to the Midwest against Miami. For me thats fine, we have unfinish business with them anyeays as Im sure they do with us. Would much rather play a tougher opponent in the first round, IMO you are better focused. Lots will change for next week as well, which will bring interesting debates again.

[VarsityWisconsin]

Re: Bracketology

I think you guys are giving UND too much credit. They are 15th in the PWR so them getting matched up with the #1 overall seed shouldn't be a problem no matter how much name recognition they have.

[Dirty]

Re: Bracketology

I think you guys are giving UND too much credit. They are 15th in the PWR so them getting matched up with the #1 overall seed shouldn't be a problem no matter how much name recognition they have.

If they manage to learn how to score again, they can be a major problem. But that won't happen.

[Priceless]

Re: Bracketology

North Dakota is 14th in the RPI while playing the 4th toughest schedule.
RIT is 39th while playing the 56th toughest schedule.

I think there's a slight difference between the two.

[LynahFan]

Re: Bracketology

North Dakota is 14th in the RPI while playing the 4th toughest schedule.
RIT is 39th while playing the 56th toughest schedule.

I think there's a slight difference between the two.

And it's actually likely to be a team worse than RIT - they won't be a prohibitive favorite in their tourney, so the smart money is on the field.

[burgie12]

Re: Bracketology

And it's actually likely to be a team worse than RIT - they won't be a prohibitive favorite in their tourney, so the smart money is on the field.

How are they not a favorite in their own tourney? It's played at the BCA (twenty minutes from their campus) and they are 4-2 against the other top 3 teams in their conference. If you're going to pull the "they can't perform in the tourney" excuse, they've only played in two tournaments, and never as the #1 seed. I just don't see RIT not winning the AHA this season.