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  • New Poll Predictions for 11/2

    Tough week to do this with so many teams still not playing and with the amount of top 15 teams that lost, but here goes.

    1.Plattsburgh
    2.Neumann
    3.St. Norbert
    4.Adrian
    5.Middlebury
    6.River Falls
    7.St Scholastica
    8.Manhattanville
    9.Oswego
    10.Amherst
    11.Norwich
    12.Hobart
    13.Augsburg
    14.Gustavus Adolphus
    15.Curry
    The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
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  • #2
    Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

    You think Utica might get a recieving vote and maybe be in the top 15? since we tied the #2 team last weekend?
    Utica College Hockey. Best fan base in D-III. Fear the Moose.
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    • #3
      Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

      Originally posted by Pioneers#1 View Post
      You think Utica might get a recieving vote and maybe be in the top 15? since we tied the #2 team last weekend?
      Apparently he doesn't think they would be in the top #15.....or maybe, just maybe, he would have put them in his poll. Just sayin'.
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      • #4
        Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

        Originally posted by Pioneers#1 View Post
        You think Utica might get a recieving vote and maybe be in the top 15? since we tied the #2 team last weekend?
        They might get a couple of votes. They won't be ranked in the top 15 but I could see them possibly getting a few votes.

        Depends how much the voters punish Stout, Superior, and Elmira.
        The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
        "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
        GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
        GO LAKERS!!!
        GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
        "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
        Oswego State '09

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        • #5
          Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

          No teams will get any votes this week. Regular polls will begin on November 9th.
          2010 D-III NCAA Tournament Pick'em Champion (Perfect Bracket)
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          • #6
            Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

            Originally posted by Josh Carey View Post
            No teams will get any votes this week. Regular polls will begin on November 9th.
            Fair enough. That'll make things easier on the voters to see a little bit of separation!

            Or might even complicate things worse...
            The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
            "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
            GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
            GO LAKERS!!!
            GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
            "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
            Oswego State '09

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            • #7
              Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

              Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
              Tough week to do this with so many teams still not playing and with the amount of top 15 teams that lost, but here goes.

              1.Plattsburgh
              2.Neumann
              3.St. Norbert
              4.Adrian
              5.Middlebury
              6.River Falls
              7.St Scholastica
              8.Manhattanville
              9.Oswego
              10.Amherst
              11.Norwich
              12.Hobart
              13.Augsburg
              14.Gustavus Adolphus
              15.Curry

              For discussion's sake...how do you justify Neumann being ahead of St. Norbert when the Knights tied Utica and St. Norbert went on the road and obliterated a FF team from a year ago and everyone's preseason NCHA favorite? How do you reconcile those comparative results?
              “You drive by some of these rinks in the winter and there isn't anybody out there. It's kind of sad, actually...Here it’s go to the rink, pay for your ice time and practice for an hour where we could just walk to the rink and skate for four hours if we wanted to...It was just a lot of fun. I wish I could go back and be eight years old for a couple days" -Neal Broten

              2010-11 DIII Commitments
              19gp, (23-24-47), +27

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              • #8
                Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

                Originally posted by Matthew Webb View Post
                For discussion's sake...how do you justify Neumann being ahead of St. Norbert when the Knights tied Utica and St. Norbert went on the road and obliterated a FF team from a year ago and everyone's preseason NCHA favorite? How do you reconcile those comparative results?
                Keep in mind this is my PREDICTION and not exactly how i would have voted.

                But for discussion's sake I'll play devil's advocate.

                Neumann didn't LOSE the game. A tie is a tie, I think we can agree that they don't hurt you as much as losses do, right?

                Second, Neumann was leading the game 4-2 and it took a late rally for Utica to tie things up including a goal with one second remaining.

                Third, Utica isn't an easy place to play. I'd argue it's one of the toughest in D-III packing close to 3000 or more in the Aud every night so a tie is nothing to shake your finger at.

                Fourth, Neumann swept Geneseo last weekend pretty handily. Geneseo gave the #1 team in the country, Plattsburgh a good run for their money on the road this past weekend.

                Fifth, some people who vote in polls believe the defending champs need to be beaten before dropping them.
                The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
                "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
                GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
                GO LAKERS!!!
                GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
                "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
                Oswego State '09

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

                  Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
                  Neumann didn't LOSE the game. A tie is a tie, I think we can agree that they don't hurt you as much as losses do, right?
                  Depends. I'm the guy who thinks a team can win and move down in the polls. Also, one can lose and move up. It's not a common occurence, but it certainly can happen.

                  I've always thought the poll should be treated as an attempt to put the teams in order from most best to least best. Therefore, to an extent, wins and losses are not the end-all-be-all. As numerous years of polls have shown, I'm about the only one who feels this way.

                  This actually happened, but I won't mention what year and what teams were involved.

                  One team was an upstart and currently sitting at #15. That week, they went 1-0-1 with the tie coming on the road against the #1 team in the nation. The #15 team actually lost votes the following week and fell out of the top 15.

                  On my ballot, I moved them up. I saw no reason whatsoever that I should rank that team any lower than I previously had them. I likely would have done the same had they lost 2-1, 3-2 or something along those lines.

                  This team went on to win 20+ games that season and ended up solidly in the top 10, but at the time it wasn't a "W" so it hurt. No context seemed to be applied to what was really a very impressive road tie.

                  Look at it this way: Had this team gotten a lucky bounce and won that game in overtime, they'd probably have vaulted into the top 10. Conversely, had they gotten an unlucky hop and lost in OT they'd have dropped like a rock.

                  Why? It's the same team regardless.

                  Granted, ultimately a team has to win some games to be taken seriously, but once that game went to overtime, how relevant is the outcome to that team's overall quality?

                  I submit that it's hardly relevant at all.

                  I'm about the only one that thinks that way, however. If I didn't have better things to do I bet I could actually develop a working formula for the numerical impact of wins and losses on a team's ranking.

                  There is a lot of autopilot going on with some of the voters, and I don't have a problem saying that as at times it's a joke. Some of the trends are literally comical. Two wins they go up three, a loss they go down three, two losses and they are out completely, don't play a game drop one, etc. I'm positive that statistically significant trends could be backed out of things.

                  There are some tendencies that are wholly counterintuitive, and maybe if I'm feeling ambitious I'll try to point a few out as I notice them this season.

                  Aside from that, the ballot should be top 15...best to 15th best. There's a lot that goes into trying to determine that order, though it appears most of the voters ignore a lot of them at times.


                  Why not? I don't care anymore. Ready for a firestorm?


                  Were there an end of season poll last year, my #1 team would have been Hobart. They were a better team than Neumann, even though Neumann won the semifinal game.
                  “You drive by some of these rinks in the winter and there isn't anybody out there. It's kind of sad, actually...Here it’s go to the rink, pay for your ice time and practice for an hour where we could just walk to the rink and skate for four hours if we wanted to...It was just a lot of fun. I wish I could go back and be eight years old for a couple days" -Neal Broten

                  2010-11 DIII Commitments
                  19gp, (23-24-47), +27

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

                    Hey Prez J, - Neumann didn't exactly "beat Geneseo easily" last weekend.

                    Both games were tied going into the 3rd period. In game 1 a very questionable goal early in the 3rd along with late goals equaled 6-2. Second game scoreless until late in the 3rd period and an EN goal 2-0.

                    Plattsburgh game tied until less than 4 minutes left. Geneseo has a good team. To all you prognosticators picking them to lose both games this weekend at home ( Hobart & Morrisville ) I don't think so !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

                      Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
                      Keep in mind this is my PREDICTION and not exactly how i would have voted.

                      But for discussion's sake I'll play devil's advocate.

                      Neumann didn't LOSE the game. A tie is a tie, I think we can agree that they don't hurt you as much as losses do, right?

                      Second, Neumann was leading the game 4-2 and it took a late rally for Utica to tie things up including a goal with one second remaining.

                      Third, Utica isn't an easy place to play. I'd argue it's one of the toughest in D-III packing close to 3000 or more in the Aud every night so a tie is nothing to shake your finger at.

                      Fourth, Neumann swept Geneseo last weekend pretty handily. Geneseo gave the #1 team in the country, Plattsburgh a good run for their money on the road this past weekend.

                      Fifth, some people who vote in polls believe the defending champs need to be beaten before dropping them.

                      Yes i agree that Tie's do not hurt NEARLY as much as losses do,especially in Utica's case.Yes,It took a late rally for Utica to tie the game up,but remember that Utica led the entire first and second periods 1-0 and then 2-0 until early in the third period.The Knights did not score until about 8 or 9 minutes left in the third period when they had their flurry of 4 goals in about a 7 minute span.The Knights should have won the game due to Utica's mistakes,but Utica was too relentless for them.Like what PrezdeJohnson09 said,I think that UC will get a couple of recieving votes but won't be ranked YET.If Utica is to beat Neumann on friday night at home,They will most definitly be ranked the following monday somewhere in the top 15.

                      The Aud is the toughest place to play in D-III hockey.Were only averaging 2800 or so a game right now,but we have had only 2 home games so far and plus Sectional playoffs for High school football is still going on around here and MANY MANY people go to those games on the friday nights UC has there home games.But as soon as the playoffs are over for the local teams,Utica will be back up to it usual 3500 people or more a game.On top of all that we also have the pioneerposse(pioneerposse.com) and some of the craziest fans that come to our games.
                      Last edited by Pioneers#1; 11-03-2009, 12:46 PM.
                      Utica College Hockey. Best fan base in D-III. Fear the Moose.
                      Utica College 2004-2005 EcacWest Regular Season Champions
                      Utica College 2012-2013 EcacWest Regular Season Champions
                      2012-2013 ECAC West PICK'EM CHAMPION
                      2012-2013 SUNYAC 1st runner up to the Pick'EM CHAMPION

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                      • #12
                        Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

                        Originally posted by Pioneers#1 View Post
                        The Aud is the toughest place to play in D-III hockey.Were only averaging 2800 or so a game right now,but we have had only 2 home games so far and plus Sectional playoffs for High school football is still going on around here and MANY MANY people go to those games on the friday nights UC has there home games.But as soon as the playoffs are over for the local teams,Utica will be back up to it usual 3500 people or more a game.On top of all that we also have the pioneerposse(pioneerposse.com) and some of the craziest fans that come to our games.
                        You're actually arguing against yourself.

                        If the Aud is the toughest place to play and the home team does not win, that doesn't say much for the home team. As a voter, I might count that heavily against Utica.

                        And if the home team wins, then, well, they should becauase they have such a home building advantage. In which case, as a voter, I may not think much of any of the Utica home wins no matter who they play.

                        Be careful how you state your case.
                        Russell Jaslow
                        [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                        U.S. College Hockey Online

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                        • #13
                          Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

                          This site has Plattsburgh #1, Adrian @ #11 & Utica #21 .....
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                          • #14
                            Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

                            thats very interesting norm1909......but Manhattanville at #24? .....I don't how they ranked some of those teams where they did.....Oswego at #18?
                            Utica College Hockey. Best fan base in D-III. Fear the Moose.
                            Utica College 2004-2005 EcacWest Regular Season Champions
                            Utica College 2012-2013 EcacWest Regular Season Champions
                            2012-2013 ECAC West PICK'EM CHAMPION
                            2012-2013 SUNYAC 1st runner up to the Pick'EM CHAMPION

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                            • #15
                              Re: New Poll Predictions for 11/2

                              Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
                              You're actually arguing against yourself.

                              If the Aud is the toughest place to play and the home team does not win, that doesn't say much for the home team. As a voter, I might count that heavily against Utica.

                              And if the home team wins, then, well, they should becauase they have such a home building advantage. In which case, as a voter, I may not think much of any of the Utica home wins no matter who they play.

                              Be careful how you state your case.

                              To a point i kind of agree with you Russell Jaslow.

                              I understand what your saying about how if the Aud is such a hard place to play in then why doesen't Utica do better overall and at home against teams.Well were in the EcacWest(arguably the toughest D-III divison) and we have great coaching but remember UC doesen't offer scholarships and/or special programs to foreign students.(kids from Europe etc...)Teams like Elmira,Hobart,Manhattanville and Neumann do.Lebanon Valley doesen't have many players or any at all from there,and look how they do.Hobart,Manhattanville,Neumann and Elmira are also all nationally ranked teams;thats 4 out of the 6 teams in the EcacWest!!! Maybe its because we don't have foreign players like other teams do? maybe its our coaching? I don't know what the problem is,Utica needs to get its act together.We peaked in 2005,but coulden't go all the way.Its been almost 5 years since we did anything of signifigance in the EcacWest,if Utica doesen't get better soon,we might be seeing some changes within the team.
                              Last edited by Pioneers#1; 11-03-2009, 02:09 PM.
                              Utica College Hockey. Best fan base in D-III. Fear the Moose.
                              Utica College 2004-2005 EcacWest Regular Season Champions
                              Utica College 2012-2013 EcacWest Regular Season Champions
                              2012-2013 ECAC West PICK'EM CHAMPION
                              2012-2013 SUNYAC 1st runner up to the Pick'EM CHAMPION

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