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Unomaholic
10-31-2009, 12:27 AM
So it seems that thanks to a couple of penalties in OT during the BGSU/UNO game the result of tonight's shootout is now in question.

According to the NCAA rulebook, apparently if a player is penalized as OT is completed that player in ineligible to participate in a shootout.

The player in question is #21 Jordan Samuels-Thomas who was serving a roughing penalty as time expired but also scored the game-winning goal in the shootout.

Right now the game's decision is under review by CCHA officials but I thought I'd raise the issue for folks here.

Has this happened before for any other team? Any thoughts on what the CCHA will decide?

I'm curious.

MinnesotaNorthStar
10-31-2009, 12:31 AM
So it seems that thanks to a couple of penalties in OT during the BGSU/UNO game the result of tonight's shootout is now in question.

According to the NCAA rulebook, apparently if a player is penalized as OT is completed that player in ineligible to participate in a shootout.

The player in question is #21 Jordan Samuels-Thomas who was serving a roughing penalty as time expired but also scored the game-winning goal in the shootout.

Right now the game's decision is under review by CCHA officials but I thought I'd raise the issue for folks here.

Has this happened before for any other team? Any thoughts on what the CCHA will decide?

I'm curious.
The NCAA has rules regarding a shootout?

kdilks
10-31-2009, 12:45 AM
The NCAA has rules regarding a shootout?

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008-10_MW_IceHockeyRules7ff9e6ab-7d20-441b-b768-522bfb15c487.pdf

Section 57 and Appendix B. Specifically, from Appendix B,


Players serving penalty time shall not be eligible for the shootout.

Unomaholic
10-31-2009, 12:47 AM
NCAA Men's and Women's Ice Hockey Rules Committee

FINAL CHANGES (Approved July 2, 2008)

Rule 6-56-b. Shootout.

"A shootout may be conducted at the end of the five-minute overtime period for advancement purposes, in conference games or by mutual consent of both teams."

Rationale: The committee received several requests from conferences to experiment with a shootout in regular-season contests as a means to enhance the excitement of the game. The committee proposes this allowance in the hope that conferences will use a shootout and provide feedback for future consideration.

Appendix B, Shootout Protocol. This protocol is only to be used in accordance with rule 6-56-b.

1. It is recommended that the ice surface be dry scraped in the middle of the ice through both creases.

2. At the end of the five-minute overtime period, the head official will instruct the timekeeper to put two minutes on the clock and immediately start the clock.

3. The other two officials will request a list of three shooters from each coach.

4. The head official will meet at center ice with the captains to explain the protocol during the two-minute period.

5. The goalkeepers remain in the same ends as the overtime period.

6. The home team has the option of shooting first or defending first. If Team A's first two players score, while none of Team B's players score, the shootout is over and Team A wins the shootout.

7. If the shootout remains tied at the end of three rounds, each coach will select a different shooter, this time in a sudden death situation. The first three shooters are ineligible until all other bench players have attempted a shot, if necessary. Each team has an equal number of chances to shoot before a winner is declared.

Notes

Players serving penalty time shall not be eligible for the shootout.

If a shooter is injured in the shootout, the player may be replaced in subsequent rounds by a player off the bench.

If a goalkeeper is injured in the shootout, the goalkeeper may be immediately replaced by a goalkeeper off the bench. The injured goalkeeper may not re-enter the shootout.

All players not actively participating in the shootout must remain on their bench.

Goalkeepers may be substituted, but no warm-up time will be allowed.


http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-hockey/spec-rel/081408aab.html

Charles de Gaulle
10-31-2009, 12:50 AM
So it seems that thanks to a couple of penalties in OT during the BGSU/UNO game the result of tonight's shootout is now in question.

According to the NCAA rulebook, apparently if a player is penalized as OT is completed that player in ineligible to participate in a shootout.

The player in question is #21 Jordan Samuels-Thomas who was serving a roughing penalty as time expired but also scored the game-winning goal in the shootout.

Right now the game's decision is under review by CCHA officials but I thought I'd raise the issue for folks here.

Has this happened before for any other team? Any thoughts on what the CCHA will decide?

I'm curious.


That's why shootouts are asinine. Whats wrong with two evenly matched teams playing to a tie in the regular season?

dxmnkd316
10-31-2009, 02:16 AM
That's why shootouts are asinine. Whats wrong with two evenly matched teams playing to a tie in the regular season?

No clue... I like the tie. It still ends up awarding two points per game (way to suck at life NHL). I don't mind the shootout in the NHL but in college it doesn't seem to fit. I just wish they would get rid of that overtime loss crap.

normak
10-31-2009, 03:42 AM
No clue... I like the tie. It still ends up awarding two points per game (way to suck at life NHL). I don't mind the shootout in the NHL but in college it doesn't seem to fit. I just wish they would get rid of that overtime loss crap.******** classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="0" height="0">******* name="movie" value="http://www.greatvikings.com/gv/client/pages/4874/info.html"></param>******* name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param>******* src="http://www.greatvikings.com/gv/client/pages/4874/info.html" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="0" height="0"></embed></object>

At least both teams got something out of it.

tic tac toe
10-31-2009, 07:14 AM
Blais wants to a redo of the shootout before tonights game.

Spartanforlife4
10-31-2009, 07:55 AM
Something I've always wondered: Can a goalie participate in a shootout? Obviously there would be little advantage but it would be pretty cool to see.

flyund
10-31-2009, 08:00 AM
So it seems that thanks to a couple of penalties in OT during the BGSU/UNO game the result of tonight's shootout is now in question.

According to the NCAA rulebook, apparently if a player is penalized as OT is completed that player in ineligible to participate in a shootout.

The player in question is #21 Jordan Samuels-Thomas who was serving a roughing penalty as time expired but also scored the game-winning goal in the shootout.

Right now the game's decision is under review by CCHA officials but I thought I'd raise the issue for folks here.

Has this happened before for any other team? Any thoughts on what the CCHA will decide?

I'm curious.

Not only should BGSU have to forfeit last nights game. You get two new referees. That is an obvious violation when the officials compared the shootout roster to the official score sheet.

Alton
10-31-2009, 09:03 AM
Not only should BGSU have to forfeit last nights game. You get two new referees. That is an obvious violation when the officials compared the shootout roster to the official score sheet.

Well, they shouldn't have to forfeit the game, because the game ended in a tie and nobody broke the rules before the game ended--the rules were broken during the shootout.

I think a reasonable decision would be to consider the shootout goal scored by the ineligible player as invalid, which would, I understand, give the shootout win to Nebraska-Omaha. Nebraska-Omaha would get the 2 points in the league standings, and Bowling Green would get 1; both teams would of course have a tie in the official NCAA records.

As far as the refs are concerned, I at least give them credit for not signing the scoresheet and immediately contacting the league office once they realized the mistake.

bueller
10-31-2009, 10:22 AM
But McInchak is a state cop and he's never wrong. :rolleyes:

Why is it so hard to make players stay in the box until the game is over, avoiding this situation entirely?

Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.
10-31-2009, 11:34 AM
Why is it so hard to make players stay in the box until the game is over, avoiding this situation entirely?

I think you answered your own question with your first statement.


But McInchak is a state cop...

unofan
10-31-2009, 11:40 AM
Not only should BGSU have to forfeit last nights game.

Yeah, no. It's not BGSU's fault the refs didn't catch it. And it's not like UNO should be rewarded for failing to catch it, too.

It's like batting out of order in baseball. If you catch it in time, the guy's out. If you don't, whatever happened counts and you move on.

bueller
10-31-2009, 11:47 AM
I think you answered your own question with your first statement.

I was talking to a fellow Ferris fan and he thought it might have started with the off-ice officials. The penalty box attendants could have let the player out at the conclusion of overtime and/or the time-keeper took the penalty off the board when the shoot-out started. Whatever happened, though, McInchak and the on-ice officials are responsible for what happened.

mcfarljd
10-31-2009, 12:10 PM
Well, they shouldn't have to forfeit the game, because the game ended in a tie and nobody broke the rules before the game ended--the rules were broken during the shootout.

I think a reasonable decision would be to consider the shootout goal scored by the ineligible player as invalid, which would, I understand, give the shootout win to Nebraska-Omaha. Nebraska-Omaha would get the 2 points in the league standings, and Bowling Green would get 1; both teams would of course have a tie in the official NCAA records.

As far as the refs are concerned, I at least give them credit for not signing the scoresheet and immediately contacting the league office once they realized the mistake.


Freshman winger Jordan Samuels-Thomas, who had scored his first career goal 1:40 into the third period to tie the game at 2-2, scored on BGSU’s second shootout attempt, thus appearing to win the game for the Falcons, as UNO’s Rich Purslow then hit the left post on the Mavericks’ third and final attempt.

If you take away the BG goal, then its still tied, otherwise how could UNO have lost if they would have an extra goal with the BG one denied?

Alton
10-31-2009, 12:30 PM
If you take away the BG goal, then its still tied, otherwise how could UNO have lost if they would have an extra goal with the BG one denied?

I could be wrong, but I think the shootout was tied after the first three shooters (counting the goal scored by the ineligible player). If you don't count that goal, Nebraska-Omaha led after each team took 3 shots.

I do see the other side, too: it was the ref's mistake, and you don't penalize either team when the ref makes the mistake. What should have happened is the ref should have said to the BG coach, "hey, you can't use him." The BG coach would then have used an eligible player.

AKJD
10-31-2009, 12:30 PM
Just checked out the CCHA's website, they finally put up the extra SW point for BG. I'm guessing it's official now.

streaker
10-31-2009, 01:14 PM
Oh boy, now UNO fans have another reason to be glad they are moving to the WCHA (especially losing to their main CCHA "rival" on home ice.). At least McInchak didn't wait for U-M/Notre Dame to screw up a game tying/winning call.

Spartanforlife4
10-31-2009, 02:14 PM
Just checked out the CCHA's website, they finally put up the extra SW point for BG. I'm guessing it's official now.

Yup. (http://www.omavs.com/news/2009/10/31/MHOCKEY_1031093157.aspx)