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Puck Swami
09-30-2009, 12:14 PM
http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/0910/recruitsteam_0801.htm

Here we go once again....

state of hockey
09-30-2009, 12:54 PM
Michigan in 10th? Blasphemy!

FireKnight
09-30-2009, 01:45 PM
Seems RPI always gets mentioned on this list but the teams never materialize. Is this the year for Coach Appert to turn the corner?

Red Cloud
09-30-2009, 01:55 PM
Seems RPI always gets mentioned on this list but the teams never materialize. Is this the year for Coach Appert to turn the corner?

INCH sucks.

Puck Swami
09-30-2009, 02:22 PM
Seems RPI always gets mentioned on this list but the teams never materialize. Is this the year for Coach Appert to turn the corner?

Appert is in the third year with his own recruits. I expect they will be improved this year. Certainly, he is landing some solid talent, and I think it's only a matter of time there....

moe24
09-30-2009, 02:26 PM
INCH sucks.

That may be true, but in this case they did nothing more then compile the opinions of college and junior coaches as well as scouts.

MadCityRich
09-30-2009, 02:34 PM
Does anybody have the resources, or time for that matter, to research past INCH predictions and see how the teams have fared?

Just askin' .

dggoddard
09-30-2009, 02:35 PM
Does anybody have the resources, or time for that matter, to research past INCH predictions and see how the teams have fared?

Just askin' .
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><blockquote><span style="font-weight: bold;">INCH Ranks Recruiting Classes</span><span style="font-weight: bold;"> &amp; Key Recruits</span>

<a href="http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/0910/recruitsteam_0801.htm">2009 </a>

<a href="http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/0809/recruitsteam_0702.htm">2008</a>

<a href="http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/0708/recruitsteam_0602.htm">2007</a>

<a href="http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/0607/recruitsteam_0501.htm">2006</a>

<a href="http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/recruitsteam_0352.htm">2005</a>

<a href="http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/recruitsteam_0301.htm">2004</a>
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Ralph Baer
09-30-2009, 02:35 PM
Seems RPI always gets mentioned on this list but the teams never materialize. Is this the year for Coach Appert to turn the corner?

This is the third year consecutive year that RPI has been mentioned, and the third consecutive year that two players were chosen on the position lists. I am pretty sure that RPI had never had a mention before then.

Last year's two selections, Mike Bergin and Allen York, hardly played. Bergin was injured after 6 games and received a medical redshirt. York backed up Matthias Lange in goal until the end of the season when he won the job and almost got RPI to Albany. Both will be counted on this season, expecially York. http://www.troyrecord.com/articles/2009/09/29/sports/doc4ac2da99a03f3125271288.txt

Puck Swami
09-30-2009, 02:50 PM
We are very lucky to have not one, but three web sites covering our sport. Each has it's advantages and some weaknesses, in my mind.

USCHO has the longest history, some decent stats and with this message board, offers the true pulse of the die-hard college hockey fan. Editorially, it's a bit of hit and miss (more party-line stuff than deep reporting), but considering there is little money to be made on these ventures, I consider all editorial content to be a bonus. I'd like to see these guys go deeper than they do...

CHN has the most interesting and authoritative editorial voice and the largest set of stats and mobility tools, and they are often quickest and usually the deepest on the the story. What it lacks is the active community aspect in terms of the lack of a message board, and some detractors may not like the more controversial stories they do, but I like Adam's courage to go where others don't...

INCH has some of the more interesting features - the newsstand, podcasts, humor and a great NCAA tourney history page, as well as some interesting and often good 'list' features published every year. The weakness there is like CHN, a lack of community interaction, and sometimes, a "overpackaged" feeling that if it doesn't fit their format, they just don't adapt to it as fast or as deep. Overall, INCH has some of the deepest connections with key figures in the game, but they don't take advanatge of that as much as they should.

BoomGoestheDynamite
09-30-2009, 02:54 PM
I wonder if Harvard and Yale's new scholarship policies have anything to do with their recruting rise? I forget exactly how it works, but at a certain income level the school excuses tuition, and at a lower income level the school pays for your living expenses at well. I think the income levels are high enough that a lot of player's families would slide into either designation.

Puck Swami
09-30-2009, 03:08 PM
I wonder if Harvard and Yale's new scholarship policies have anything to do with their recruting rise? I forget exactly how it works, but at a certain income level the school excuses tuition, and at a lower income level the school pays for your living expenses at well. I think the income levels are high enough that a lot of player's families would slide into either designation.

Most hockey players do not come from disadvantaged financial backgrounds, so I would expect that effect to be fairly minimal. These are two of the world's best academic brand names. What hockey parent (anywhere in the world) would not take a serious listen to coaches from those two schools? And if the kid they want qualifies academically, they usually find a way to make it work financially. I think Harvard and Yale's rising has everything to do with energy of the programs, and the quality of overall experience they can sell to a recruit.

bothman
09-30-2009, 03:24 PM
I wonder if Harvard and Yale's new scholarship policies have anything to do with their recruting rise? I forget exactly how it works, but at a certain income level the school excuses tuition, and at a lower income level the school pays for your living expenses at well. I think the income levels are high enough that a lot of player's families would slide into either designation.

There are recruits in Harvard's 2009 class that would not have gone to Harvard had the old scholarship policies been in place.

The academic piece is still the biggest hurdle - there are candidates that Harvard can't even consider - but no question, the financial aid policy has made a big difference in landing guys and should going forward as well.

BoomGoestheDynamite
09-30-2009, 04:00 PM
Most hockey players do not come from disadvantaged financial backgrounds, so I would expect that effect to be fairly minimal. These are two of the world's best academic brand names. What hockey parent (anywhere in the world) would not take a serious listen to coaches from those two schools? And if the kid they want qualifies academically, they usually find a way to make it work financially. I think Harvard and Yale's rising has everything to do with energy of the programs, and the quality of overall experience they can sell to a recruit.

I think, and once again I don't have the hard figures in front of me, the program extends up to a family income of 100,000 dollars (US) per year. You can have a fairly comfortable life (especially in Canada) on that kind of money.

BoomGoestheDynamite
09-30-2009, 04:05 PM
There are recruits in Harvard's 2009 class that would not have gone to Harvard had the old scholarship policies been in place.

The academic piece is still the biggest hurdle - there are candidates that Harvard can't even consider - but no question, the financial aid policy has made a big difference in landing guys and should going forward as well.

I've always wondered what exactly is untouchable. At Cornell there were a few guys on the hockey team who probably could have qualified unaided. Two players even held down 3.9s in Biology and our probably med school grads as we speak. However most players didn't exactly seem like they had set the academic world on fire before arriving on campus. I doubt we were letting in SEC football level SAT scores, but I'd be stunned if a few of those guys broke 1000 and 3.0 in HS.

With the caveat that I'm sure the academic standards at Yale and Harvard are higher.

Puck Swami
09-30-2009, 04:15 PM
I think, and once again I don't have the hard figures in front of me, the program extends up to a family income of 100,000 dollars (US) per year. You can have a fairly comfortable life (especially in Canada) on that kind of money.

Except in Toronto and Vancouver, where living costs are far higher (you can do it on less than 100K by your "comfort" is going to be limited when compared to other areas of Canada). I would guess that 75% of hockey families are above the $100K family income threshold, at least in the USA. Canada may be a little lower, but hockey costs are usually somewhat lower in Canada due to the greater availability of ice in most Canadian towns.

The question becomes how much is Harvard or Yale worth to you if others are offering a full ride and your family make more than $100K a year? Harvard is still $50K per year, and even for a 200K per year family, that's a big bill....

SCSU Euro
09-30-2009, 04:21 PM
I would guess that 75% of hockey families are above the $100K family income threshold, at least in the USA.

I'll take the under on that.

dggoddard
09-30-2009, 04:33 PM
I'll take the under on that.I think you are probably right, but if you broke it down geographically Swami would probably be right.

Kids from rural Canada, Minnesota, Michigan & Massachusetts are probably the under 100K. But those hockey strongholds provide plenty of low-cost opportunities for talented kids to continue to develop.

Kids from California, the sunbelt, prep school kids back East and perhaps kids from the major urban centers are probably well over 100 K. These areas have elite programs and quality coaches, but its on a pay-as-you-go basis, which probably excludes many talented kids who can't afford it.

bothman
09-30-2009, 04:42 PM
I've always wondered what exactly is untouchable. At Cornell there were a few guys on the hockey team who probably could have qualified unaided. Two players even held down 3.9s in Biology and our probably med school grads as we speak. However most players didn't exactly seem like they had set the academic world on fire before arriving on campus. I doubt we were letting in SEC football level SAT scores, but I'd be stunned if a few of those guys broke 1000 and 3.0 in HS.

With the caveat that I'm sure the academic standards at Yale and Harvard are higher.

There is a great book called "Playing the Game" where it discusses the nuances of recruinting in the Ivy league - Academic Index, No LOIs, etc. it's a great read and goes into not only the rules, but also some great personal stories of some high profile recruits and what the recruiting process was like amongst the Ivies.

There are nuances, but at a high level, there are athletes that Cornell can admit that Harvard & Yale can not because Cornell's relative AI is lower than that at Harvard & Yale.

bothman
09-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Except in Toronto and Vancouver, where living costs are far higher (you can do it on less than 100K by your "comfort" is going to be limited when compared to other areas of Canada). I would guess that 75% of hockey families are above the $100K family income threshold, at least in the USA. Canada may be a little lower, but hockey costs are usually somewhat lower in Canada due to the greater availability of ice in most Canadian towns.

The question becomes how much is Harvard or Yale worth to you if others are offering a full ride and your family make more than $100K a year? Harvard is still $50K per year, and even for a 200K per year family, that's a big bill....

Swami, as usual you are spot on. Harvard has made some great Canadian inroads as of late for the reasons you state above.