PDA

View Full Version : D3 Preseason Captain's Practice



Pages : [1] 2 3

hawk
09-21-2009, 08:52 PM
Just wondering how the various D3 teams conduct there preseason captain's practice. As far as Norwich is concered I believe that the team is involved in dry land training right after school starts and skate's once a week starting in September. I don't believe that coaches can be involved and must stay away until the official start of practice which is different for almost all the D3 leagues.

I would be interested in the NCAA guildines for these practice's if anyone is familar with them. The whole subject interested me since Plattsburgh has a game scheduled against a strong Canadian U team a couple of days after the official start of practice. From what I have seen there is no contact or coaching instruction at these practice's and represent only a small part of the team building process.

LoudHorns31
09-21-2009, 09:17 PM
Plattsburgh starts dry land shortly after school starts as well. the team started skating last monday without any coach's, and they will continue to skate daily until the start of actual team practice. the coaching staff is not allowed in the rink during captains practices.

doncheery
09-21-2009, 10:33 PM
I The whole subject interested me since Plattsburgh has a game scheduled against a strong Canadian U team a couple of days after the official start of practice.

Concordia is rebuilding and carries relatively few ex Major Jr and ex minor pro guys compared to most CIS teams. If you look at their roster mainly Jr A and Prep guys. http://athletics.concordia.ca/intercollegiate/mhockey/roster.shtml ... basically a Dlll lineup. The advantage will be Concordia's as they will have been in full practice mode for a month and a half. I for one am looking forward to this one and hope to make it to Plattsburgh ( never thought I would say that... )]as I know many of the guys on both teams. It will be interesting as Concordia plays McGill and McGill plays Harvard and other Dl squads. Sounds like an Adrian pre AQ discussion but nonetheless.

BlueDevilRadio
09-21-2009, 11:09 PM
Just wondering how the various D3 teams conduct there preseason captain's practice. As far as Norwich is concered I believe that the team is involved in dry land training right after school starts and skate's once a week starting in September. I don't believe that coaches can be involved and must stay away until the official start of practice which is different for almost all the D3 leagues.

I would be interested in the NCAA guildines for these practice's if anyone is familar with them. The whole subject interested me since Plattsburgh has a game scheduled against a strong Canadian U team a couple of days after the official start of practice. From what I have seen there is no contact or coaching instruction at these practice's and represent only a small part of the team building process.

Per NCAA rules, the term 'Captain's Practice' is not allowed to be used when describing guys getting together and practicing/working out. The accepted venacular is 'voluntary individual workouts'. 'workout' could mean a game of kick ball or the guys buying ice at a nearby arena as long as it's not required and the coaches are not present.

The NCAA says the term 'captain's practice' implies requirement to particpiate.

Check out this page (http://www.usathlete.net/blog/2008/06/ncaa-diii-rules_03.html), it contains all the answers your looking for in scrambled wording.

Matthew Webb
09-21-2009, 11:28 PM
Per NCAA rules, the term 'Captain's Practice' is not allowed to be used when describing guys getting together and practicing/working out. The accepted venacular is 'voluntary individual workouts'. 'workout' could mean a game of kick ball or the guys buying ice at a nearby arena as long as it's not required and the coaches are not present.

The NCAA says the term 'captain's practice' implies requirement to particpiate.

Check out this page (http://www.usathlete.net/blog/2008/06/ncaa-diii-rules_03.html), it contains all the answers your looking for in scrambled wording.


It's not allowed for institutions to use it in official releases, but the NCAA has no oversight whatsoever regarding fans using the commonly accepted term. Every team in the nation is having "captain's practices" right now, and whether we call it that, "voluntary individual workouts" or "pink fluffy bunnies with cinnamon buns on top" is irrelevant. Everyone knows what it means regardless of the NCAA's feel-good approach to long-used terminology.

Naturally there are some that need to heed the bureaucratic drool in the regulations you posted, but the casual, or diehard, fan of DIII certainly is not included in those that do.

BlueDevilRadio
09-21-2009, 11:36 PM
It's not allowed for institutions to use it in official releases, but the NCAA has no oversight whatsoever regarding fans using the commonly accepted term. Every team in the nation is having "captain's practices" right now, and whether we call it that, "voluntary individual workouts" or "pink fluffy bunnies with cinnamon buns on top" is irrelevant. Everyone knows what it means regardless of the NCAA's feel-good approach to long-used terminology.

Naturally there are some that need to heed the bureaucratic drool in the regulations you posted, but the casual, or diehard, fan of DIII certainly is not included in those that do.

Can I nominate 'Voluntary Hannah Montana's' as an accepted term here on the board? :confused:

Matthew Webb
09-21-2009, 11:37 PM
Can I nominate 'Voluntary Hannah Montana's' as an accepted term here on the board? :confused:

Heck, start a thread. "What's the best newfangled term we can come up with for 'captain's practice'"?" :)

I can only imagine the replies would be amusing.

joeyc3402
09-22-2009, 07:44 AM
It's not allowed for institutions to use it in official releases, but the NCAA has no oversight whatsoever regarding fans using the commonly accepted term. Every team in the nation is having "captain's practices" right now, and whether we call it that, "voluntary individual workouts" or "pink fluffy bunnies with cinnamon buns on top" is irrelevant. Everyone knows what it means regardless of the NCAA's feel-good approach to long-used terminology.

Naturally there are some that need to heed the bureaucratic drool in the regulations you posted, but the casual, or diehard, fan of DIII certainly is not included in those that do.

Correct... basically, as long as no member of the coaching staff is present, the players can do whatever they want.

...and when I say "coaching staff," strength & conditioning coaches are NOT included as part of said staff, so you can have a team trainer take the players through "voluntary" workouts as well.

mdmadison
09-22-2009, 09:13 AM
Can I nominate 'Voluntary Hannah Montana's' as an accepted term here on the board? :confused:

I really like "pink fluffy bunnies with cinnamon buns on top" , seems more PC. Ever get the feeling the NCAA makes rules that serve no useful purpose just because they can.

norm1909
09-22-2009, 10:25 AM
I really like "pink fluffy bunnies with cinnamon buns on top" , seems more PC. Ever get the feeling the NCAA makes rules that serve no useful purpose just because they can.

I liked it until the thought of the frosting melting off the buns and into the fluffy fur ruined it:mad:

For the record, the NCAA defines Captain's Practice's as (see here (http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/D3_Manual0c5a4b77-4ccc-4eac-9ae3-c634b0afb89a.pdf), page 270):

On-court or on-field activities called by any member(s) of a team and confined primarily to members of that team that are considered as a requisite for participation in that sport absent of coaching staff members. Such activities are considered athletically related activities.
Note, “allowable practice season” aside, being "considered athletically related activities" (sanctioned) is an important factor in determining legal liability, should injury or damage be done during such activities.

Note, the following activities shall not be considered athletically related (see here (http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/D3_Manual0c5a4b77-4ccc-4eac-9ae3-c634b0afb89a.pdf), page 122):

(a) Administrative and academic activities that are nonathletics in nature (e.g., academic meetings and compliance meetings); (Revised: 1/9/06, 10/17/06)

(b) Fundraising and community service activities not involving the use of athletics ability by student athletes to obtain funds provided the activities receive approval from the institution’s chancellor or president (or his or her designee) prior to the activity (see Bylaw 12.5.1.1 for restrictions on promotional activities); (Revised: 10/17/06, 7/24/07)

(c) Observation of an officiating clinic related to playing rules that is conducted by video conference and does not require student-athletes to miss any class time to observe the clinic; (Revised: 10/17/06)

(d) Observation of enrolled student-athletes in organized competition (e.g., summer league), provided institutional athletics personnel do not direct or supervise the organized activity; and (Revised: 10/17/06)

(e) Voluntary individual workouts monitored for safety purposes by strength and conditioning personnel. If the strength and conditioning coach is also a coaching staff member for one of the institution’s intercollegiate teams, the monitoring may occur only if that staff member performs monitoring duties for all student-athletes using the facility at that time. (Revised: 10/17/06, 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08)

Iranger
09-22-2009, 11:18 AM
ah yes, more ncaa bureaucrat bs. these guys need to get out of their glass cased fortress in indy, live a little.

norm1909
09-22-2009, 11:37 AM
ah yes, more ncaa bureaucrat bs. these guys need to get out of their glass cased fortress in indy, live a little.

Two types of people end up on "Bureaucratic Committees": a) a few with a sincere love of the sport and appreciation for student athletes and find the time to contribute, realizing that if they don’t things will get really bad and unfortunately, b) those "know-it-all" egotistical jerks who care about nothing more than patting themselves on the back and promoting themselves, that come up with and bully through most of the “bs” policies found throughout life.

cooperalls
09-22-2009, 05:21 PM
What if the ice is provided to them for free on campus is that acceptable in terms of the NCAA language?



Per NCAA rules, the term 'Captain's Practice' is not allowed to be used when describing guys getting together and practicing/working out. The accepted venacular is 'voluntary individual workouts'. 'workout' could mean a game of kick ball or the guys buying ice at a nearby arena as long as it's not required and the coaches are not present.

The NCAA says the term 'captain's practice' implies requirement to particpiate.

Check out this page (http://www.usathlete.net/blog/2008/06/ncaa-diii-rules_03.html), it contains all the answers your looking for in scrambled wording.

norm1909
09-22-2009, 06:20 PM
What if the ice is provided to them for free on campus is that acceptable in terms of the NCAA language?

As noted above "On-court or on-field activities called by any member(s) of a team and confined primarily to members of that team that are considered as a requisite for participation in that sport absent of coaching staff members", the "court" in this case is the rink, and it is acceptible as not breaking the "off-season" training, so long as it is "absent of coaching staff members".

Hockey NutCase
09-22-2009, 06:46 PM
Supposedly there were 78 sightings of "pink fluffy bunnies with cinnamon buns on top" activities throughout the Northeast and upper Midwest today, some going on as early as 5am, others happening as we speak. Dont tell anyone.

hawk
09-22-2009, 08:00 PM
The NCAA might get a bad rap but what they might be trying to prevent is a supervised D3 varsity hockey season that is 7 months long, that's right, from the beginning of September to mid March. That why the D3 preseason hockey activities I have seen over the years are on the low key side. Maybe some programs are more demanding of there players.

I sure it will take some of the 20 year old freshman recruits a couple of months to get up to speed if they were out of school for a couple of years. After all education is going to the most impostant thing for players 10 years from now.

Wormser-PointRC
09-22-2009, 08:12 PM
The NCAA might get a bad rap but what they might be trying to prevent is a supervised D3 varsity hockey season that is 7 months long, that's right, from the beginning of September to mid March. That why the D3 preseason hockey activities I have seen over the years are on the low key side. Maybe some programs are more demanding of there players.

I sure it will take some of the 20 year old freshman recruits a couple of months to get up to speed if they were out of school for a couple of years. After all education is going to the most impostant thing for players 10 years from now.


That's all well and good, but why not allow it to be called a captains practice? The captains are there 'supervising'/running the skate session anyways.

"Pink fluffy bunnies with cinnamon buns on top" are a real problem in Wisconsin this time of year. ;)

NorthernBlizzard
09-23-2009, 07:15 AM
That's all well and good, but why not allow it to be called a captains practice?

If it is called "Captain's Practice" is has the ring of official sanction of the school or team and the players are thereby covered by the insurance policy. No official sanction , no insurance policy. If a Canadian player is injured at one of these events the team policy does not cover him. If memory serves there are often two policies...one school and one athletic. Either way can be a difficult situation.

joecct
09-23-2009, 07:21 AM
If it is called "Captain's Practice" is has the ring of official sanction of the school or team and the players are thereby covered by the insurance policy. No official sanction , no insurance policy. If a Canadian player is injured at one of these events the team policy does not cover him. If memory serves there are often two policies...one school and one athletic. Either way can be a difficult situation.Also, IIRC, the practice has to be open to all student-athletes at the school. Thus it could be "intramurals" in the eye of the insurance company.

norm1909
09-23-2009, 09:19 AM
Also, IIRC, the practice has to be open to all student-athletes at the school. Thus it could be "intramurals" in the eye of the insurance company.

This (open to all students) is correct, the problem that occurred, is that the ice rinks (ice time and resurfacing cost $$'s), along with many "athletic areas", tennis courts, gym floors, etc, are locked and unavailable UNLESS opened and permission (sanctioned) was granted, in many cases this access is regulated by the athletic department. The NCAA recognized (after significant efforts) that the institutions for multiple reasons (practice scheduling, maintaining in a usable condition, insurance, etc) had to control access to these areas. They also acknowledged that varsity players are usually explicitly denied access to intramurals or sports clubs, yet need, for their physical conditioning and preparedness access to training faculties. The NCAA created the "strength and conditioning" provisions noted above and the "Observation of enrolled student-athletes in organized competition (e.g., summer league), provided institutional athletics personnel do not direct or supervise the organized activity" clause.

In my pessimistic opinion (formed from reading minutes such as these (http://web1.ncaa.org/conventionArchive/2001/files/ncaa-2001-proceedings-division-business-session-008.htm)), while some of the catalyst for the NCAA’s actions was to prevent student athletes from being over worked at the expense of their academics, a larger catalyst was the fact that at many, particularly smaller and lesser endowed private institutions, were concerned about the expenses (buildings & grounds maintenance) and many of their coaches and staff have multiple roles, and can not be made as readily available outside of the season.

Another article I found of interest is here (http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/2007/01/ncaa-worried-about-coaching-arms-race/) and this Descriptive Epidemiology of Collegiate Men’s Baseball Injuries: National Collegiate Athletic Association Injury Surveillance System (http://www.nata.org/jat/readers/archives/42.2/i1062-6050-42-2-183.pdf).

Bottom line (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/ecaf69804e0b36dabc75fc1ad6fc8b25/Q+and+A+-++(Dec+10+-+08).pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=ecaf69804e0b36dabc75fc1ad6fc8b25):
(2009 NCAA Convention - Division III Legislative Proposals - Question and Answer Guide - Final Print Edition)

Question: Under this proposal what would institutions be permitted to do between the start of school and October 15th?

Answer: The period between the beginning of school and the start of preseason practice (October 15th under this proposal) would be considered out of season. Under both the current rule and the proposal, athletically related activity is impermissible out of season. This proposal changes when the institution may first start preseason practice.

.....

Question: Does this proposal change the requirement that out of season workouts be voluntary?

Answer: No. Under both the current rule and under the proposal, the workout would still have to be voluntary and satisfy the requirements set forth in NCAA Bylaw 17.02.13 listed below.

In order for any athletically related activity to be considered “voluntary,” all of the following conditions must be met:

a. The student-athlete must not be required to report back to a coach or other athletics department staff member (e.g., strength coach, athletics trainer, manager) any information related to the activity. In addition, no athletics department staff member who observes the activity (e.g., strength coach, athletics trainer, manager) may report back to the student-athlete‟s coach any information related to the activity;

b. The activity must be initiated solely by the student-athlete. Neither the institution nor any athletics department staff member may require the student-athlete to participate in the activity at any time;

c. The student-athlete's attendance and participation in the activity (or lack thereof) may not be recorded for the purposes of reporting such information to coaching staff members or other student-athletes; and

d. The student-athlete may not be subjected to penalty if he or she elects not to participate in the activity. In addition, neither the institution nor any athletics department staff member may provide recognition or incentives (e.g., awards) to a student-athlete based on his or her attendance or performance in the activity.